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Knights Of Sidonia


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#1 Anjian

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:08 AM

Coming from a genre where every corner, every inch of idea has been explored for decades and milked to death in countless series, Knights of Sidonia achieved a near impossible --- brings back originality to the mecha genre. This got to be one of the best series of 2015, the best if nothing better can come up. I don't think I would be stretching believing this would be among the best mecha series of all time. The least I can say about it is that its ground breaking.

The isolated bit of humanity fighting against extinction in the face of a relentlesly giant enemy is a bit that's played in Attack on Titan, and even earlier, Fafnir in the Azure. Way back even, to the Space Battleship Yamato and Battlestar Galactica. And yet what takes Knights of Sidonia to a whole new level?

--- There is a feeling that they took science and technology seriously. Their colony arkship is literally carved out from an asteroid, which simultaneously gives them a protective environment and resources to harvest from. That science in turns, creates a contained, self sustaining dystopia that defines this society.
--- Lots of twists of bioengineering. Humans genetically modified to achieve photosynthesis which reduces their need to eat. Humans that are genetically transgender, and develop to the opposite sex of the person they are attracted to.
--- Avoiding the Gundamesque stereotype in the mechs, the mechs are almost like starfighters with limbs, capable of enormous bursts of speed across space, perhaps in fractions of light speed. This shows the technology to be extremely advanced, though not FTL capable. The mechs are designed uniformly, little to distinguish one from another, even the hero mech, Tanikaze. No special hero prototypes, every mech is standardized for mass production.
--- Other than the timely appearance of the chimera, there is no easy deus ex machina to call upon to save the day. Everything had to be won with precise strategies and tactics, often with appalling human losses.
--- Speaking of space battles, these are among the most impressive I have ever seen. They are intense, yet not confusing. There is a constant feeling of immense speed and being in space rather than in a mech battle fought with a black background of stars. The battle scenes simply put those even in the latest Gundam and Macross series to shame.








Edited by Anjian, 29 June 2015 - 07:09 AM.


#2 Hit the Deck

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 01:59 PM

Nice, I'll probably watch this, but it still feels too epic for me. I like my 'Mechs to be more grounded like in Gasaraki, Patlabor, the first and last Armored Core, or, BattleTech!

#3 Anjian

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 07:37 PM

Grounded vs. Flight vs. Space is a matter of the technology level or rules of the fictional universe. The lower the technology level, the more grounded you are, like Patlabor, Votoms or the show last year, Argevollen. The higher the technology level, the mech should match that.

For example, the recent excellent Aldnoah Zero which concluded early this year. The mechs are primarily ground combat only, but they also have space versions. Space is weightless, put boosters and jetpacks, the mechs would be "flying" in space fast and easy. Its only becomes a matter of navigation and control. If I put a Battlemech in space with jumpjets, adapt the navigation and stabilization systems to space, space proof the living compartment, it will be "flying" in space like Gundams. In fact, it should be attainable with the level of technology in the Battletech universe. And realistically, the difference of weights in planets should affect the mobility, so its not impossible for a jumpjet Highlander to be boosting around like an Armored Core mech on a low gravity moon or asteroid. In fact, a jumpjet Highlander is going to be pretty fast, and jumping at great distances if its moving on our moon.

Without gravity and atmosphere, a Battlemech in space can shoot its medium lasers even at great distances, with infinity potential. There would be no range limits to LRMs, SRMs, and even the AC20s, and everything will fly at far greater speeds since there is no aerodynamic drag. The important thing is to adjust the fire control systems for space use.

Flying and fighting on Earth's gravity and with the density of Earth's atmosphere, that is something though. If I were making a sci fi mech universe, I would have mechs adapted specially for fighting in space, then for fighting in M class planets. I will leave aerodynamic fighters for atmospheric combat. Should note that in space, a mech or a fighter would be equals; the mech has no aerodynamic drag to disadvantage its frame, and it has the advantage of being able to achieve a full spherical coverage with its main weapons.

Another thing about fictional mech universes, if the antagonist is another human faction, the technology levels are going to be lower, generally more equal with each other. Some might like to call it "realistic" but its a useless term for science fiction. In SF, realism is not important --- technology consistency to the rules you laid in that universe is, whether those rules are based on pseudo science, science or even magic. That one thing that matters is consistent. If your fictional universe has mechs powered by magic, then they have to be all powered by magic, you cannot suddenly turn around by introducing a mech that is powered by something else.

In a universe where the antagonists are non human, especially alien, the technology rules tend to be much higher, especially when space combat is involved, when the era can be over well over a thousand years from the present time. In Knights of Sidonia, its already over a thousand years since the Solar System was destroyed. There is no specific date for the Solar System's destruction but it should have taken place at a time when Humanity has reached the level of being able to carve asteroids and turn them into colony ships. Which by itself is a pretty advanced level of technology. When the antagonists are non human, and showing much greater capabilities, you would need to advance your technology to the level of being able to fight them, and so the driving forces for advancing technology are much greater. This does not mean that that there won't be "realistic" mechs typical of Man vs. Man mech universes to appear in Man vs. Alien universes, but usually the portrayal of "realistic" mechs in Man vs. Alien mech universe, such mechs ended up being fodder and easily destroyed, causing a technology escalation and race to develop super mechs to match those aliens in the first place.

Edited by Anjian, 29 June 2015 - 07:39 PM.


#4 Hit the Deck

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Posted 29 June 2015 - 11:12 PM

Exactly. By "grounded" (well balanced and sensible) I didn't mean that the 'Mechs have a hard time to fly but that the technology level in the setting is not that high. Also no alien which usually accelerates the development of science and technology.

#5 Anjian

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 06:21 AM

Threats usually accelerate technology development greatly, especially during wars. The premise in Battletech that all those wars caused retardation of technology development is not proven or true when in fact, history has shown the exact opposite. The fact that you have an alien threat, the more desperate side would seek even more greater technology leaps (Germany 1944-45 is a good example).

Carving an entire asteroid and turning it into a self sustaining colony ship that has traveled in interstellar space for over a millenia, I would say that is a pretty high technology level, not to mention being able to genetically modify humans to an almost new species (human photosynthesis, a third gender that turns to male or female) I would say that is quite higher than the levels you see in the Gundam or Macross series. A mech that fights in space is not much more than a starfighter with limbs; weightless space won't require the development of powerful limbs to make it walk or run, since they would be redundant. The limbs would only be strong enough to assist in weightlessness and to hold and aim the weapons, practically much of the mech is devoted to the propulsion and energy source.

One of the striking things about the series is that when the mechs travel, they all hold hands to form a cluster or even a ring before they "warp". That kind of makes sense, since interlocking the limbs means they don't need to fly in a formation and risk collision or losing members. Once in battle, they don't seem to randomly fly around and mix into furballs, which again, can risk collisions. They remain in coordinated formation, likely automated, focusing fire with their lances, which are essentially appear to me as railguns.

#6 ShinVector

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Posted 30 June 2015 - 06:41 AM

Sidonia Season 2 just ended.. Sigh......

SIIDOOONIAAAA !!

http://img-9gag-fun....WMze8_460sv.mp4

View PostAnjian, on 30 June 2015 - 06:21 AM, said:

One of the striking things about the series is that when the mechs travel, they all hold hands to form a cluster or even a ring before they "warp". That kind of makes sense, since interlocking the limbs means they don't need to fly in a formation and risk collision or losing members. Once in battle, they don't seem to randomly fly around and mix into furballs, which again, can risk collisions. They remain in coordinated formation, likely automated, focusing fire with their lances, which are essentially appear to me as railguns.


Apparently they do that to be more fuel efficient when travelling at high speed.
There is a point of no return episode that shows that their fuel and operational range is very limited.

Edited by ShinVector, 01 July 2015 - 05:09 PM.






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