469 replies to this topic

[Desintegrator]

As always !

There are no vital informations !

Do the Mechs completely behave like Clan Mechs ??
Can I change the engine ??
Why does the Hunchback have a 200XL and a max. engine rating of 275XL ?
Can I un-equip the JumpJets ?
or are the fixed ?

PGI -> You always want to get money from me, but you are not able to inform me about the most essential things !?

Yeah, you dont care - but I not...

Therefore, the Dollars will stay on my bank account.

Over and out

Edited by Desintegrator, 04 July 2015 - 12:38 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Desintegrator, on 04 July 2015 - 12:37 AM, said:

As always !

There are no vital informations !

Do the Mechs completely behave like Clan Mechs ??
Can I change the engine ??
Why does the Hunchback have a 200XL and a max. engine rating of 275XL ?
Can I un-equip the JumpJets ?
or are the fixed ?

PGI -> You always want to get money from me, but you are not able to inform me about the most essential things !?

Yeah, you dont care - but I not...

Therefore, the Dollars will stay on my bank account.

Over and out

This is all common knowledge. Not only for those that know the lore, but anyone that listened to the Townhall Meeting, where the mechs were announced.

Not to mention, if you did any simple analysis of the builds, you'd realize, the Ultra ACs are clan, not IS, since the IS only has a UAC5.

The IIC mechs use clan tech, completely, however they are not Omni mechs. They are Battlemechs. So they can swap upgrades, and Engines. No hardlocked equipment on them. While using Clan engines, and clan weapons.

[Crifuan]

Hi!
Very great that PGI introduces the IIC-Series!
I´ll buy the package.
My favorite design is the Highlander IIC, it looks much better then the IS-Variant.

I hope we´ll see the Grifin IIC and the Shadowhawk IIC in the near future.

Even my hope that we´ll see a Marauder IIC is unrealistic it´s still there;)

[Batch1972]

For the love of God why......

They can't even balance IS & Clan's let alone a hybrid.

Just one question though... these are 2nd line mechs - supposed to be inferior to clan mechs but better than IS mechs. How is that going to work in MWO where IS mechs are fully customizable... To me this seems a very poorly thought out cash grab. There are enough clan omnimechs that could be added in packs:
dasher
dragonfly
black lanner
night gyr
turkina
phantom
grendel
linebacker

are just a few that fit the 3052 timeline.

[NocturnalBeast]

Batch1972, on 04 July 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

For the love of God why......

They can't even balance IS & Clan's let alone a hybrid.

Just one question though... these are 2nd line mechs - supposed to be inferior to clan mechs but better than IS mechs. How is that going to work in MWO where IS mechs are fully customizable... To me this seems a very poorly thought out cash grab. There are enough clan omnimechs that could be added in packs:
dasher
dragonfly
black lanner
night gyr
turkina
phantom
grendel
linebacker

are just a few that fit the 3052 timeline.

The problem with these IIC mechs in MWO is that if they have the same degree of customization as an IS mech, combined with lighter / smaller Clan weapons and equipment, then, as I have said, these mechs will be superior to both IS and Omni mechs. These second-line clan mechs were not meant to be front-line mechs, they were older designs which were refitted for use by garrison units and were never superior to Omni mechs.

[Scott ExV]

Oh God, for the last time...

IIC mechs CANNOT configure ommipods to put whatever types of weapons that they want on a chassis, unlike normal ommimechs. In that way, they are less then what you consider 'traditional' clan mech. To give you an example: Lets say I used up all my laser hard points but have spare ballistic hard points on my arm but want more lasers, if it was an IS mech (or IIC mech) I can't do a thing about it, if it was an ommimech, I can just swap out the ballistic arm for a laser arm.

And yes, paper stats wise, they are more powerful than IS mech, after all, they ARE clan mech (or SLDF mechs + 300 years of tech advancements if you prefer). And before those who don't know the lore bring it up, IS went through a period of 'Dark Ages' after Kerensky left and lost a lot of technological advancements (hence the term 'lost tech'), which was only recently rediscovered.

One thing that everyone has failed to consider is module slots and quirks (although quirks have been brought up). Having about a regiment worth of IS mech and almost a cluster worth of Clan mechs, I can say that on average, most clan mechs do not have as much quirks or module slots as IS mechs (PGI's way of balancing I guess). Once I placed modules in my mech, they suddenly became much better. The improvements were felt more by my IS mechs and not so much by my Clan mechs. As we do not as yet know how many module slots will be available to the IIC mechs, nor the kind of quirks that they will have, any arguments about how overpowered they are, or how they will break every single mech in the game is somewhat premature.

Ultimately, it comes down to how you pilot your mech, managing the firepower vs heatsinks vs armour vs speed, using terrain to your advantage, and most importantly, how well you can support your team to ensure victory.

[IraqiWalker]

Batch1972, on 04 July 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

For the love of God why......

They can't even balance IS & Clan's let alone a hybrid.

Just one question though... these are 2nd line mechs - supposed to be inferior to clan mechs but better than IS mechs. How is that going to work in MWO where IS mechs are fully customizable... To me this seems a very poorly thought out cash grab. There are enough clan omnimechs that could be added in packs:
dasher
dragonfly
black lanner
night gyr
turkina
phantom
grendel
linebacker

are just a few that fit the 3052 timeline.

You forgot the Kingfisher. Clan omni assault mech, with a STD engine.

[Akenatum Malthus]

My Search Fu is bad, but will the IIC mechs be customizable like inner sphere mechs, or made as an omni system?

[Blaze32]

akenatum, on 05 July 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

My Search Fu is bad, but will the IIC mechs be customizable like inner sphere mechs, or made as an omni system?

IraqiWalker, on 04 July 2015 - 12:46 AM, said:

This is all common knowledge. Not only for those that know the lore, but anyone that listened to the Townhall Meeting, where the mechs were announced.

Not to mention, if you did any simple analysis of the builds, you'd realize, the Ultra ACs are clan, not IS, since the IS only has a UAC5.

The IIC mechs use clan tech, completely, however they are not Omni mechs. They are Battlemechs. So they can swap upgrades, and Engines. No hardlocked equipment on them. While using Clan engines, and clan weapons.

look 6 posts above yours...

[NocturnalBeast]

Scott ExV, on 05 July 2015 - 12:07 AM, said:

Oh God, for the last time...

IIC mechs CANNOT configure ommipods to put whatever types of weapons that they want on a chassis, unlike normal ommimechs. In that way, they are less then what you consider 'traditional' clan mech. To give you an example: Lets say I used up all my laser hard points but have spare ballistic hard points on my arm but want more lasers, if it was an IS mech (or IIC mech) I can't do a thing about it, if it was an ommimech, I can just swap out the ballistic arm for a laser arm.

And yes, paper stats wise, they are more powerful than IS mech, after all, they ARE clan mech (or SLDF mechs + 300 years of tech advancements if you prefer). And before those who don't know the lore bring it up, IS went through a period of 'Dark Ages' after Kerensky left and lost a lot of technological advancements (hence the term 'lost tech'), which was only recently rediscovered.

One thing that everyone has failed to consider is module slots and quirks (although quirks have been brought up). Having about a regiment worth of IS mech and almost a cluster worth of Clan mechs, I can say that on average, most clan mechs do not have as much quirks or module slots as IS mechs (PGI's way of balancing I guess). Once I placed modules in my mech, they suddenly became much better. The improvements were felt more by my IS mechs and not so much by my Clan mechs. As we do not as yet know how many module slots will be available to the IIC mechs, nor the kind of quirks that they will have, any arguments about how overpowered they are, or how they will break every single mech in the game is somewhat premature.

Ultimately, it comes down to how you pilot your mech, managing the firepower vs heatsinks vs armour vs speed, using terrain to your advantage, and most importantly, how well you can support your team to ensure victory.

If the IIC mechs use all Clan Tech, but can swap engine sizes and change heatsink / armor types like IS mechs, then they will indeed be better than IS and Omni mechs.

[Twilight Fenrir]

akenatum, on 05 July 2015 - 10:52 PM, said:

My Search Fu is bad, but will the IIC mechs be customizable like inner sphere mechs, or made as an omni system?

I really wish PGI would just add this in to the original post, so people would stop asking XD (Well, at least, it would cut down on a FEW people...) But, they probably don't want to put anything in black and white, as they are still subject to change until their release. They must have some ideas of how to balance them into the game, or they wouldn't have put them in. I have a great deal of faith in them after the last month or so, the sweeping changes in communication, the drastic increase in game stability, seriously, when was the last time your game crashed? Remember when it crashed 7 or 8 times a session?

[JRR1285]

I want to see a second line pack consisting of:

Horned Owl

Hellhound

Grizzly

Kodiak

I would be ecstatic.

[Scott ExV]

Ed Steele, on 06 July 2015 - 02:02 PM, said:

If the IIC mechs use all Clan Tech, but can swap engine sizes and change heatsink / armor types like IS mechs, then they will indeed be better than IS and Omni mechs.

Better than IS mechs without quirks: Yup, as it should be.
Better than IS mechs with quirks: Depends on the mech and quirks for the IICs, also pending the Aug rebalance. I'll reserve judgement on this until after that. No point speculating about it now.
Better than ommimechs: Really depends on play style, on the following factors:

• If you regularly equip ommipod variants other than the stock ones in order to get the weapon hardpoints that you want.
  
• Ability to swap engines is a double edge sword, moving faster means less weight for weapons and armor, and that pesky requirement of mandatory heat sinks if you don't want it. But I will concede the point that having the option is a good thing.
  
• Ability to change heat sinks / armor type / internal structure type: I could be wrong, but there's no released information on this and we are all assuming that they will be able to. Would it make a difference if they cannot be changed (?? because the clan's manufacturing capabilities are located outside the Inner Sphere ??)? Although options are (again) good, the weight/space trade off will depend on the mech and how you want to equip them.

Ultimately it boils down to 2 things:
1) New mechs: Yay! New mechs to play with and tinker with, also new mechs to shoot at and watch them keel over.
2) But they are overpowered/underpowered compared to what's available now: Aw shucks, too bad, time to put those brain cells to work to find a way around it.

[Widowmaker1981]

Scott ExV, on 06 July 2015 - 10:30 PM, said:

Better than IS mechs without quirks: Yup, as it should be.
Better than IS mechs with quirks: Depends on the mech and quirks for the IICs, also pending the Aug rebalance. I'll reserve judgement on this until after that. No point speculating about it now.
Better than ommimechs: Really depends on play style, on the following factors:

• If you regularly equip ommipod variants other than the stock ones in order to get the weapon hardpoints that you want.
  
• Ability to swap engines is a double edge sword, moving faster means less weight for weapons and armor, and that pesky requirement of mandatory heat sinks if you don't want it. But I will concede the point that having the option is a good thing.
  
• Ability to change heat sinks / armor type / internal structure type: I could be wrong, but there's no released information on this and we are all assuming that they will be able to. Would it make a difference if they cannot be changed (?? because the clan's manufacturing capabilities are located outside the Inner Sphere ??)? Although options are (again) good, the weight/space trade off will depend on the mech and how you want to equip them.

Ultimately it boils down to 2 things:


1) New mechs: Yay! New mechs to play with and tinker with, also new mechs to shoot at and watch them keel over.
2) But they are overpowered/underpowered compared to what's available now: Aw shucks, too bad, time to put those brain cells to work to find a way around it.

Swapping engines is enormous, particuarly for large mechs. TT engine sizes are usually not optimal due to having to follow MP*Tonnage.

Dynamic crits for ES/FF is enormous because it allows you to put ammo in useful locations like legs and head, and force crits that you dont care about losing to the sacrificial arms. Take a look at the Timber wolf and see that it loses 3 slots per torso, both legs, the head and 1 in the CT to locked crits, it would be a MUCH better mech if those crits were dynamic and could all be forced into one arm, for example.

These two factors work quite well balancing the clan tech advantages actually, because they seriously hamstring builds. If IIC mechs do not have these disadvantages then, regardless of their power level vs IS as that can be altered by overall balance adjustments to the gear itself, they will DEFINITELY be ENORMOUSLY superior to Omnimechs, as both use the same tech base and would be equally affected by any balance changes. All you need to do is find the IIC mechs with the good hardpoints (which some do have) and the Omnimech legomech advantage is gone. ALL that does is make 100% of Omnimech variants serviceable, which is nice but since you can only drive one mech at a time it doesn't actually confer a gameplay advantage.

Edit:

Personally i think ES/FF should ALWAYS have locked crits, some in each section. It makes no sense that bulkier internals should be able to move ALL of their additional bulk to one arm of the mech. That would kill SO MANY builds though, including stock ones, so it will never happen.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 07 July 2015 - 03:25 AM.

[cybex]

The question is: are those new origin mechs part of IS or clan?

[IraqiWalker]

cybex, on 07 July 2015 - 06:35 AM, said:

The question is: are those new origin mechs part of IS or clan?

CLAN It says so almost everywhere.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 07 July 2015 - 06:43 AM.

[cybex]

IraqiWalker, on 07 July 2015 - 06:43 AM, said:

CLAN It says so almost everywhere.

OK, thanks. I was reading but couldn't find it!!!!

[IraqiWalker]

cybex, on 07 July 2015 - 06:47 AM, said:

OK, thanks. I was reading but couldn't find it!!!!

They are listed under Clan Packages in the store, and they use clan equipment.

[SemperDie]

These are nice, but I want to see the "Unseen IIC" collection.
- Phoenix Hawk IIC
- Rifleman IIC
- Warhammer IIC
- Marauder IIC

There, I said it. Now I'll go place my order.

[IraqiWalker]

SemperDie, on 08 July 2015 - 03:46 PM, said:

These are nice, but I want to see the "Unseen IIC" collection.
- Phoenix Hawk IIC
- Rifleman IIC
- Warhammer IIC
- Marauder IIC

There, I said it. Now I'll go place my order.

Me too. Sadly, unless you can get in touch with The Punisher, and have him do a number on Harmony Gold, I don't like our chances.