37 replies to this topic

[The Mech behind you]

After the IIC mech packs went on sale and I read the stats and I realised they don't have the same customisation restrictions like the other Clan mechs, I was like 'those mechs will ruin the balance' too.

But then I took a closer look at them and now I think that they won't. Except for the Jenner IIC.

Highlander IIC:
It's still a Highlander... with Hover Jets... Even that it's Clan won't turn a Highlander into a top assault. At best it will be an alternative. Compared to the other Clan assaults even with the max engine it's the slowest assault (except for the Whale ofc). Those type I HJs will be the same as on the IS counterpart. It will have more firepower than the IS Highlander however. I hope the IS Highlander will get a quirk pass when the Highlander IIC gets released to be competitive with its Clan counterpart.

Orion IIC:
I don't see any IS Orions around so I guess it's bad. The max speed for the Orion is 77.8 kp/h which is still slower than any other Clan heavy. It is a big target. It will have more firepower than the IS Orion, but I don't see how the IIC is going to challenge any of the top heavies. However the IS Orion will need better quirks to be competitive with its Clan counterpart.

Hunchback IIC:
Now this will have a slightly bigger influence on its mech class than the Highlancer IIC or Orion IIC. Its top speed of 89 kph is slower than most of the medium mechs but it looks like the IIC could have the most firepower. And a thing that just came into my mind is it will miss all of the durability quirks of the IS Hunchback. So the shoulders will get blown off easily.

I see the IIC like a glass cannon. Slow, can get blown into parts easily but packs a mighty punch. I don't see how the Hunchback IIC could challenge the Stormcrows rank for the best medium mech. I guess it will be on the Nova level. Some of the IS Hunchbacks even have the quirks to be competitive with the IIC but the 4G and 4H might need better quirks.

Jenner IIC:
The only IIC mech that could really break the balance. In the light segment at least. It's faster than any other 35t mech it has more JJs and will have a lot more firepower and the IS Jenner already showed that the Jenner is a very capable light mech.

After the Arctic Cheetah the Clans will get another top light and judging from my experience with light mechs, both could dominate the light mech segment. The IIC might even dominate the Arctic Cheetah which would make it the best Clan light and as it looks it will be better than the Firestarter, because the only thing that grants the Firestarters domination is hitreg and as it looks hitreg will get improved till the Jenner IIC arrives.

The arrival of the Jenner IIC will put less competitive light mechs into serious trouble. I would even say it could kill them completely. IS light mechs like the Commando, Spider or Jenner WILL need a massive quirk boost to have any chance against the Firestarter, Arctic Cheetah, Jenner IIC trinity. I didn't mention the Raven and Panther because they're sniper lights and the Locust because it's already quirked to a level where it outshines the Commando, Spider and Jenner.

Clan mechs don't get any huge quirk boosts. But the Mist Lyns, Kit Fox and Adder will need a huge quirk boost, too. Otherwise the Arctic Cheetah and the Jenner IIC will make them obsolete.

I hope the 9 JJs one the Jenner IIC will be fixed. That's 4.5t that can't be invested into firepower. Even with fixed JJs, it could be the best light mech! Seriously, I hope for the entire light mech segment that the Jenner IIC has some kind of balancing or will get some kind of balancing that I'm just not aware of atm.

[MeiSooHaityu]

At this point, we can only guess about how the IICs will be balanced or affect balance.

That Jenner IIC looks brutal with the SRMs it can carry. I also think the Hunchback IIC with 4 high mount ballistic hard points and light clan ballistics could be dangerous as well.

I'm not sure if the Orion or Highlander look any more vicious than other heavies or assaults. I'm sure if they won't be slouches though.

Overall, we really don't know how these machines will be implemented. Hopefully the Jenner IIC won't be as dangerous as it seems on the surface.

[Hit the Deck]

Norman Kosh, on 01 July 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

...
Highlander IIC:
....

It's the only 'Mech which can do a viable LRM60(A)+Gauss and be able jump! Isn't that super awesome??? Say: YES!

[SgtMagor]

if my Spider didn't have ECM, the Jenny IIC would be my new ride . Looks like it will be a fun mech to use anyway, cant imagine a lance of Jen IIC's attacking a lone assault it will be instant death. Jenner IIC official Clan light "Death Dealer".

[El Bandito]

Norman Kosh, on 01 July 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

Orion IIC:
I don't see any IS Orions around so I guess it's bad. The max speed for the Orion is 77.8 kp/h which is still slower than any other Clan heavy. It is a big target. It will have more firepower than the IS Orion, but I don't see how the IIC is going to challenge any of the top heavies. However the IS Orion will need better quirks to be competitive with its Clan counterpart.

The top speed for the Orion is 85.5 kph after eliting the mech. Which is only 3.6 kph less than that of the Timberwolf max speed. Also, even with the large profile, it benefits from Clan XL, which means not only it moves fast and twists like a Medium thanks to 360 rating engine, but is also more durable than most XL Heavies of the IS. I think the Orion IIC is going to be a fearsome brawler with 3-4 CSRMs, CUAC20, and some CERMLs.

Not CW material but it definitely can hold its own against pretty much all IS Heavies in pug matches.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 July 2015 - 05:39 AM.

[Kiiyor]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

It's the only 'Mech which can do a viable LRM60(A)+Gauss and be able jump! Isn't that super awesome??? Say: YES!

[Lostdragon]

In the town hall where they first started talking about these Russ also mentioned they wanted to do a major balance pass that would impact every mech. I would reserve judgement until then as there will hopefully be some changes that breathe new life into old mechs and make the heavier IIC mechs fun options.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

It's the only 'Mech which can do a viable LRM60(A)+Gauss and be able jump! Isn't that super awesome??? Say: YES!

I can finally resurrect my old ALRM50 HGN-733. The IIC version will be harder, faster, better, stronger.

HIGHLANDER HGN-733 312 183 129 1.42, 414 151 2.74, 124,363 252,460 1 day 05:58:30

Edited by El Bandito, 01 July 2015 - 05:36 AM.

[MikeBend]

I suspect IIC Jenners will get negative quirks. Bandaids, bandaids everywhere!

[ThirtyOughtSix]

Lostdragon, on 01 July 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

In the town hall where they first started talking about these Russ also mentioned they wanted to do a major balance pass that would impact every mech. I would reserve judgement until then as there will hopefully be some changes that breathe new life into old mechs and make the heavier IIC mechs fun options.

Can't wait to see this "major" change in balance. AKA, 10 mechs get awesome balls to the walls quirks, 40 mechs get shafted right up the pewter. Also, can't wait to find all the mechs I bought modules for are now totally obsolete.

Game on brothers.

[Lostdragon]

Hyper99, on 01 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Can't wait to see this "major" change in balance. AKA, 10 mechs get awesome balls to the walls quirks, 40 mechs get shafted right up the pewter. Also, can't wait to find all the mechs I bought modules for are now totally obsolete.

Game on brothers.

I'm hoping the balance pass it not just quirks. They are finally willing to discuss rescaling mechs, so that seems like a good sign that they want to do more to make mechs viable besides just band **** like quirks.

[CDLord HHGD]

Those HBK's will fill out my HBK deck quite nicely.

[Alan Davion]

Lostdragon, on 01 July 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

In the town hall where they first started talking about these Russ also mentioned they wanted to do a major balance pass that would impact every mech. I would reserve judgement until then as there will hopefully be some changes that breathe new life into old mechs and make the heavier IIC mechs fun options.

Hyper99, on 01 July 2015 - 05:42 AM, said:

Can't wait to see this "major" change in balance. AKA, 10 mechs get awesome balls to the walls quirks, 40 mechs get shafted right up the pewter. Also, can't wait to find all the mechs I bought modules for are now totally obsolete.

Game on brothers.

Lostdragon, on 01 July 2015 - 05:59 AM, said:

I'm hoping the balance pass it not just quirks. They are finally willing to discuss rescaling mechs, so that seems like a good sign that they want to do more to make mechs viable besides just band **** like quirks.

From what Russ said, I'm led to believe that every mechs stock chassis and/or loadout will be given a certain 'point' value, as will literally every, single, piece of equipment, from tag lasers to ECM will also receive a certain point value, so as a mechs loadout is altered, it will increase or decrease accordingly.

For instance, want that ECM? Might have to reduce your lasers from pulse to normal. We don't know how it will work, but that's one example of how it could work.

That said, this will likely have a huge affect on the shifting meta game play, and probably do more to balance the game in one fell swoop than has been done over the whole last year.

[FupDup]

Alan Davion, on 01 July 2015 - 08:04 AM, said:

From what Russ said, I'm led to believe that every mechs stock chassis and/or loadout will be given a certain 'point' value, as will literally every, single, piece of equipment, from tag lasers to ECM will also receive a certain point value, so as a mechs loadout is altered, it will increase or decrease accordingly.

For instance, want that ECM? Might have to reduce your lasers from pulse to normal. We don't know how it will work, but that's one example of how it could work.

That said, this will likely have a huge affect on the shifting meta game play, and probably do more to balance the game in one fell swoop than has been done over the whole last year.

I think that what Russ meant when he said "points" was that he is using it to replace the tiers system. So, instead of quirking mechs based on their tier of 1-5, they get quirks based on whatever their "BV" point value is.

[ThirtyOughtSix]

We'll how does one measure battle value? By variant? Even so with what equipment? My BJ Arrow performance very differently when I go 3 x LPL, than 2 X LPL - 6x MG. Both have their uses. Which one do you measure by is I guess what I'm getting at.

[FupDup]

Hyper99, on 01 July 2015 - 09:11 AM, said:

We'll how does one measure battle value? By variant? Even so with what equipment? My BJ Arrow performance very differently when I go 3 x LPL, than 2 X LPL - 6x MG. Both have their uses. Which one do you measure by is I guess what I'm getting at.

They're not looking at loadouts I don't think, they're looking at innate design features of a mech such as ECM, hardpoints, hardpoint height, etc.

[Mystere]

Kiiyor, on 01 July 2015 - 04:52 AM, said:

[Aim64C]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 03:17 AM, said:

It's the only 'Mech which can do a viable LRM60(A)+Gauss and be able jump! Isn't that super awesome??? Say: YES!

"Viable" and "LRM" don't fit in the same sentence, these days.

A mech with 2 gauss can return fire for 2x15 points of damage to one 1x15 points of damage and -maybe- 45x1 over six components damage.

Perhaps if you are with a team that has some idea of what it is doing, you can get some good indirect fire going, but then you may as well dump the Artemis and go with more ammo to spam at indirect targets.

Fixing LRMs requires a completely different missile mechanic, not just a damage change. But I've harped on that for years.

You'd be better off ignoring the missile hardpoints, using SRMs, or holding off for a future implementation of MRMs. I forget when those are supposed to come into play - but probably not for another few years (unless they decide to implement a lore time skip since it seems kind of insane to wait 30 years for some of this stuff).

[Hit the Deck]

Aim64C, on 01 July 2015 - 09:38 AM, said:

"Viable" and "LRM" don't fit in the same sentence, these days.
...
....
You'd be better off ignoring the missile hardpoints, using SRMs, or holding off for a future implementation of MRMs....

Just say, "YES ITZ AWESOEMM!!1!!11!"

[Aim64C]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 09:42 AM, said:

Just say, "YES ITZ AWESOEMM!!1!!11!"

Ah, so your first post was sarcastic?

I take everything literally, these days.