37 replies to this topic

[ThirtyOughtSix]

FupDup, on 01 July 2015 - 09:19 AM, said:

They're not looking at loadouts I don't think, they're looking at innate design features of a mech such as ECM, hardpoints, hardpoint height, etc.

I can see how that will be helpful but will still leave gaps. Hope they took their sweet time to think About this...

[Hit the Deck]

Aim64C, on 01 July 2015 - 09:45 AM, said:

Ah, so your first post was sarcastic?

I take everything literally, these days.

Well, I think practically noone is interested in Highlander based on the forum reaction even though it's been buffed with ClanTech .

I'm just trying to show some of its unique characteristics or what it can do as a Clan Battlemech. From what I can gather so far, I think it will bring something new to the Clan Assault stable (no locked equipments and the ability to jump @ 90 tons but with hardpoints config some people don't really prefer).

Edited by Hit the Deck, 01 July 2015 - 10:23 AM.

[Aim64C]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Well, I think practically noone is interested in Highlander based on the forum reaction even though it's been buffed with ClanTech .

I'm just trying to show some of its unique characteristics or what it can do as a Clan Battlemech. From what I can gather so far, I think it will bring something new to the Clan Assault stable (no locked equipments and the ability to jump @ 90 tons but with hardpoints config some people don't really prefer).

Ah, I can understand that.

An LB20X plus a full complement of SRM-6s might be entertaining to mount to an up-engined and JJ-capable mech. Call it the "opportunist" that just destroys anything with reduced armor.

Although, now that I think about it... the Storm Crow can pretty much do that just as well without having to add the wonkiness of an LB on the side.
Hmm...

[Hit the Deck]

Aim64C, on 01 July 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

...
An LB20X plus a full complement of SRM-6s might be entertaining to mount to an up-engined and JJ-capable mech. Call it the "opportunist" that just destroys anything with reduced armor.

Although, now that I think about it... the Storm Crow can pretty much do that just as well without having to add the wonkiness of an LB on the side.
Hmm...

The 'Crow can only do one LB-20X with 5 ER small lasers and not with bunch of SRM6s. The Clan HGN can definitely do the traditional "Atlas loadout" with better mobility (assuming existing construction rules):

• XL325, Standard (no Endo or Ferro)
  
• 1x cLB-20X on RA with 3 tons of ammo (15 tons)
  
• 3x cSRM6+A on RT, LA with 3 tons of ammo (10.5 tons)
  
• 3x cERML on LT (3 tons)
  
• 10x DHS (10 tons)
  
• 3x JJs (6 tons)
  
• Total = 44.5 tons

The ER lasers can be decent range extender weapons unlike the IS version.

[oktocat]

Norman Kosh, on 01 July 2015 - 02:04 AM, said:

I hope the 9 JJs one the Jenner IIC will be fixed. That's 4.5t that can't be invested into firepower. Even with fixed JJs, it could be the best light mech! Seriously, I hope for the entire light mech segment that the Jenner IIC has some kind of balancing or will get some kind of balancing that I'm just not aware of atm.

JJs are not fixed.

[Eider]

The clan weapons alone will boost their powers, add in clan engine and its basicly an overall improvement including survivability.

[Pariah Devalis]

I want to point out that the Jenner IIC has only about 55% of its maximum armor protection, already runs ferro, and already runs endo. You can make it faster, and you can give it a ton of guns, but keeping the current engine and maxing its armor out, you end up with exactly 5 tons to work with. Five. I could see six-SRM2 builds with two tons of ammo, but that is the extent of it, though I suppose 2 more tons of jump jets can be thrown out. Still less free pod space than the Arctic Cheetah. The Jenner IIC is not the balance problem.

No, I think the higher up the tonnage you start hitting balance issues. Lighter clan weapons + slower engines to maximize pod space to IS levels can very easily lead to crazy powerful builds. It isn't going fast that will break Clan Battlemechs, but going slow. Right now, Clan mechs are reasonably balanced due to their oversized engines, which leads to limited free room for weapons. As soon as you can use lighter internal structure, lighter armor, and downgrade the engines to slower, more IS level speeds, you can free up a stupid amount of room for guns that are lighter. This is my balance concern.

Hard point inflation, like on the Hunchie, bypasses the one other way to reign them in. Limited hardpoints could curb their excessive advantages next to their omni brethren. Unfortunately, we are getting inflation. Even without inflation, you do not require many hard points to make a good mech. If you can take only a couple hard hitting guns, you're set. For example, gauss and 2x LPLas or ERPPC for the classic 35-41 alpha builds. Only takes three guns, but now you can cool it, AND have room left over for more weapon systems.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 05 July 2015 - 01:04 PM.

[NinjaTom]

IIC LOCUST NEXT PACK PLEASE!...... I love piloting that little guy and just imagine the power the clan counter part can carry with good speed and added armour

All hail the coming of the clan twins!

[Bishop Steiner]

El Bandito, on 01 July 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

The top speed for the Orion is 85.5 kph after eliting the mech. Which is only 3.6 kph less than that of the Timberwolf max speed. Also, even with the large profile, it benefits from Clan XL, which means not only it moves fast and twists like a Medium thanks to 360 rating engine, but is also more durable than most XL Heavies of the IS. I think the Orion IIC is going to be a fearsome brawler with 3-4 CSRMs, CUAC20, and some CERMLs.

Not CW material but it definitely can hold its own against pretty much all IS Heavies in pug matches.

and that assumes we know the profile. Being a higher tech version, it may be more compact. Though that would require PGI to be logical, so probably not, lol!

[EvilCow]

I am sure PGI will take care of balance with their usual attention.

[Moldur]

Orion won't need new quirks. The Orion IIC is going to be better, flat out. That's how it works. 2nd generation Clan. Why the **** can people not get it through their heads that the progression of technology will render old technology obsolete. VHS media is obsolete. Current media storage is objectively better in all aspects as a result of technological advancement. Good. Ranged weaponry advanced to the point where swords and other melee weapons were obsolete for the purpose of open warfare. Good. Stop asking PGI to buff swords, and go buy a gun instead. If you want to use a sword, accept that it's going to be obsolete compared to a gun. The end. I don't need a quirk pity party to pull a great match in an Orion and neither do you.

Sorry. In this game universe, it's not just the introduction of same-tier equipment, technology, etc. It's a progressive timeline with equipment that is supposedly superior or more advanced compared to older equipment. That's how it works.

[Eider]

Moldur, on 05 July 2015 - 03:11 PM, said:

Orion won't need new quirks. The Orion IIC is going to be better, flat out. That's how it works. 2nd generation Clan. Why the **** can people not get it through their heads that the progression of technology will render old technology obsolete. VHS media is obsolete. Current media storage is objectively better in all aspects as a result of technological advancement. Good. Ranged weaponry advanced to the point where swords and other melee weapons were obsolete for the purpose of open warfare. Good. Stop asking PGI to buff swords, and go buy a gun instead. If you want to use a sword, accept that it's going to be obsolete compared to a gun. The end. I don't need a quirk pity party to pull a great match in an Orion and neither do you.

Sorry. In this game universe, it's not just the introduction of same-tier equipment, technology, etc. It's a progressive timeline with equipment that is supposedly superior or more advanced compared to older equipment. That's how it works.

As i have said before, they threw out the tt rules with 12 vs 12. All it will do is further destroy any semblance of balance. I would be fine if IS also got to play with mixtech and clam lasers etc but they dont.

[El Bandito]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 03:33 PM, said:

The 'Crow can only do one LB-20X with 5 ER small lasers and not with bunch of SRM6s. The Clan HGN can definitely do the traditional "Atlas loadout" with better mobility (assuming existing construction rules):

• XL325, Standard (no Endo or Ferro)
  
• 1x cLB-20X on RA with 3 tons of ammo (15 tons)
  
• 3x cSRM6+A on RT, LA with 3 tons of ammo (10.5 tons)
  
• 3x cERML on LT (3 tons)
  
• 10x DHS (10 tons)
  
• 3x JJs (6 tons)
  
• Total = 44.5 tons

The ER lasers can be decent range extender weapons unlike the IS version.

I think many of the forumers are not interested in the Highlander IIC due to 325 max engine rating, which limits mobility. What is the use for sweet Clan XL, if you can't pack bigger engine? If I buy Highlander IIC, I am gonna use the quad missiles variant only, for lurming purposes.

[Hit the Deck]

El Bandito, on 05 July 2015 - 03:38 PM, said:

I think many of the forumers are not interested in the Highlander IIC due to 325 max engine rating, which limits mobility. What is the use for sweet Clan XL, if you can't pack bigger engine? If I buy Highlander IIC, I am gonna use the quad missiles variant only, for lurming purposes.

I admit that it's not very interesting in our current state of the game but it can offer something Warhawk and Executioner can't do well, like doing dual heavy ballistics on the C (early adopter) variant, for example. The 100 tons Daishi practically beats HGN-IIC but I guess it's somewhat faster and jumps better.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Hit the Deck, on 01 July 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

Well, I think practically noone is interested in Highlander based on the forum reaction even though it's been buffed with ClanTech .

Maybe if they let people pay $500 for get the Gold skins on them, it will change their minds?
PROTIP: Pic related

[Macster16]

The ORN and HGN IICs don't interest me at all as they are way too hardpoint limited (which is actually supposed to be the balancing factor). The JR7 and HBK IICs though have all the hardpoints you could want and are really the ones that could potentially cause balance issues. I mean, that 8 energy HBK is going to **** all kinds of face if it's not reined in. Even the 4 energy JR7 will be lethal, let alone the 6 energy one.

Edited by Macster16, 05 July 2015 - 07:38 PM.

[Zordicron]

My Orions can brawl quite well now. Giving them a ST death proof XL so they can run a much bigger rating will, with nothing else changed, make then an order of magnitude better. Better speed to position, better agility for brawling. Possibly more DHS in the engine, and for sure more crit space, IF they allow full custom on them like the IS battlemechs.

That is the real issue IMO. It isnt that they will suddenly all have triple power alpha loadouts compared to IS, it's that they will do similar loadouts with less heat and more speed and agility, and more range to boot. If one keeps in mind an ERML is basically an IS LL, and builds to that for heat and firepower, the 2cee's will indeed be potent mechs.

I havent looked into the HGN much yet. I think the engine cap will indeed be the limiting factor there, not sure if it can mount enough heavy weapons without having heat issues to really overcome the performance of other assaults. The rest, well HBK will be like pre quirk HBK, where the torsos are bullet magnets. The Jenner will be fierce indeed.

Overall? If these are the test beds for clan battlemechs(remember we have stuff like supernovas and Kodiaks that will share these new rules) IMO somthing is going to give. The game will have stepped too far down the CoD path. gets to the point it's more like a gunslinger dual, first guy to draw when the other is sighted wins because he got to shoot first when it comes to slow assault mechs.

[Hit the Deck]

Eldagore, on 05 July 2015 - 09:00 PM, said:

...
I havent looked into the HGN much yet. I think the engine cap will indeed be the limiting factor there, not sure if it can mount enough heavy weapons without having heat issues to really overcome the performance of other assaults.
....

Yes, it can! For example (all are equipped with XL325 and 3x JJs for maximum mobility):

• HGN-IIC: 1x cGauss, 3x cLPL (to be fired with ghost heat), 10x DHS

• HGN-IIC-A: 4x cLPL, 3x cSRM6, 12x DHS

• HGN-IIC-B: 4x cLRM15+A, 1x cGauss, 1x cERML, 1x TAG, zero DHS (not needed)

• HGN-IIC-C: 2x cUAC/10, 2x cERLL, 1x cERML, 8x DHS