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I Think I'm About Ready For Some New Weapons


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#41 Y E O N N E

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 05:17 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 02 July 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

LRMs fire in an arc independent of our torso angle. It could be that the weapon will be extending over the shoulder like it's mounted on BT mechs.


LRMs arc to hit wherever your cursor is pointing, automatically adjusting for range. What they can't do is fire over cover without a lock. Firing over cover to scatter enemies away is the entire reason you'd want to bring a Long Tom, and not being able to do so without a lock would render it near useless.

#42 Khobai

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 05:21 PM

Quote

None of those weapons are time-line ready yet.


who cares about the lame timeline. adhering to the timeline is just a garbage excuse for PGI to sell people remodeled versions of mechs we already have. Game has way too many mech as is. What it needs are new weapons.

if the game adds new weapons a few years early does anyone really care? besides anyone who does care is a huge nerd and their opinion doesnt count anyway. So the consensus among people that actually get opinions is that they should add more weapons.

new weapons I want to see:

1) light AC2s because AC2s suck BAAAD (light AC2s would reduce the weight from 6 tons to 4 tons)
2) machine gun arrays/mech rifles/mech mortars (desperately need some lighter tonnage ballistic options)
3) thunder/swarm LRMs/MRMs (because missile options are absurdly limited)
4) experimental weapons: silver bullet gauss, blazer cannon, etc...
5) light fusion engine (not really a weapon but something we still need)

oh yeah and:

6) MELEE WEAPONS

even if melee weapons are only useable by mechs that have melee weapons stock, they need to add them. We should be able to run around in hatchetmans facehugging people and re tard slapping them with axes. because thatd be more fun than this laserspam !@#$%$#

Edited by Khobai, 02 July 2015 - 05:42 PM.


#43 Xenon Codex

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 05:22 PM

It makes sense we will see a jump in the timeline, especially with the clan IIC mechs which promise to obsolete nearly every 3052 IS mech.

#44 IraqiWalker

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 05:28 PM

View PostYeonne Greene, on 02 July 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:


LRMs arc to hit wherever your cursor is pointing, automatically adjusting for range. What they can't do is fire over cover without a lock. Firing over cover to scatter enemies away is the entire reason you'd want to bring a Long Tom, and not being able to do so without a lock would render it near useless.


Maybe we'll get a good use for the battlegrid screen.

#45 Maxx Blue

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Posted 02 July 2015 - 07:01 PM

View PostPappySmurf, on 02 July 2015 - 02:45 PM, said:

Helll I would just be happy if the dim light bulbs at PGI just fixed the IS SRM2_SRM4_SRM6 and the streak 2's none of them do any damage...


I think anyone piloting a Huginn might like to have a word with you about the effectiveness of SRM's at the moment. They most certainly do some damage!

Anywho, I wasn't going to hijack my own thread by trying to sneak, 'and maybe melee weapons', into it, but since you guys started it...yeah, I want hatchets and kicking and punching. However, that is likely to be a much larger task, so I was focusing a path of less resistance.

...but yeah, Hatchetman and Axman please!

#46 PappySmurf

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 04:56 PM

MAXX SAID =(I think anyone piloting a Huginn might like to have a word with you about the effectiveness of SRM's at the moment. They most certainly do some damage!)

Sorry Maxx but I have to disagree when facing mechs in battles solo or CW they do nothing you might as well be firing blanks and I have tried them all srm2-srm6 and streak2's at point blank range with little damage effect same with the AC20 .Even using 3-4 of them it makes no difference there all not registering the correct hit ratio's and damage and im talking IS not clan weapons.

#47 IraqiWalker

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 09:52 PM

View PostPappySmurf, on 05 July 2015 - 04:56 PM, said:

MAXX SAID =(I think anyone piloting a Huginn might like to have a word with you about the effectiveness of SRM's at the moment. They most certainly do some damage!)

Sorry Maxx but I have to disagree when facing mechs in battles solo or CW they do nothing you might as well be firing blanks and I have tried them all srm2-srm6 and streak2's at point blank range with little damage effect same with the AC20 .Even using 3-4 of them it makes no difference there all not registering the correct hit ratio's and damage and im talking IS not clan weapons.


That seems like a ping problem on your end. My AC 20 + SRMs crab is a monster in close range. I see anything within 300 meters, it's not going to live for long.

#48 Pezzer

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:41 PM

Rocket Launchers, Artillery types like the Thumper, X-pulse, Binary Laser Cannon are all within arm's reach and some even exist in 3050/3051. A couple of new tech types come out thanks to the ending Invasion battles through 3051 and 3052, and Triple Strength Myomer currently exists but isn't implemented yet.

The game needs new equipment, new weapons that fit the timeline, and fixes to old equipment. AC/2s, machine guns, flamers, regular small lasers could all see changes to make them worth using. Hell, I'd even be fine with the AC/2s ironically doing 3 damage just because it would possibly make the weapon worth using. Something just needs to be done.

The Clan tech is still flat-out better unfortunately except for when comparing the MLs in a brawler-situation, and even then...
So I think the best way to balance the difference out is with new IS-only weapons like X-pulses and Blasers as well as some reworks to how Clan weapons dish out their damage. Their lasers should do less damage in the middle-section of duration and more damage towards the end, thus making them better weapons if you have the skill to keep them on target, worse when you're firing them for the same duration as IS lasers then going off target. Atm all clan lasers do the same amount or more damage per amount of time fired when compared to the IS versions. I think the IS lasers should do a little more up-front damage, little less during the leading end of the pulse, thus making them great for firing in quick bursts and running away, taking advantage of short time windows, etc.

Long story short, some think that adding new weapons would hurt the game balance. I think the opposite is true, as long as we fix the current problems in place. The fact that the Clans still have an advantage in far too many departments pisses me off frankly. I like playing my Clan mechs, but I feel dirty after eliting them and have to go back to IS so that my skill level doesn't degrade. Noone should feel this way, and I believe that PGI needs to work on fixing this whiling adding new content CAREFULLY.

#49 TheArisen

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Posted 05 July 2015 - 10:49 PM

To satisfy everyone, let's just have a time jump to 3058-3060 and get loads of new weapons & mechs, etc.

#50 Radbane

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 12:18 AM

I see a lot of bashin on the AC2, but you see, I drive this TBR-Prime(I) and it comes with a single critical for a Ballistic hardpoint in the centre torso. There's only one thing I can fit in there, a MG. I'd be happy as a kid on christmas if there was some way to add the IS AC2 in there. Usefull? Maybe not. Fun and cool looking, hell yeah!

I believe I've read that Cross-Tech is a big NoNo, but honestly, while not directly being new weapons, wouldn't that greatly expand our choices and diversety a lot? Energy and SRM's would need some balancing, but LRM's and Ballistics (Weight vs single shot/burst) would be a tactical choice depending on playstyle and weight restrictions on the mech.

#51 IraqiWalker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 12:30 AM

View PostRadbane, on 06 July 2015 - 12:18 AM, said:

I see a lot of bashin on the AC2, but you see, I drive this TBR-Prime(I) and it comes with a single critical for a Ballistic hardpoint in the centre torso. There's only one thing I can fit in there, a MG. I'd be happy as a kid on christmas if there was some way to add the IS AC2 in there. Usefull? Maybe not. Fun and cool looking, hell yeah!

I believe I've read that Cross-Tech is a big NoNo, but honestly, while not directly being new weapons, wouldn't that greatly expand our choices and diversety a lot? Energy and SRM's would need some balancing, but LRM's and Ballistics (Weight vs single shot/burst) would be a tactical choice depending on playstyle and weight restrictions on the mech.

Here's why Cross tech is a big no no.

You would have no downsides. Oh, running a brawler build? Here's 2 C-LPLs, and 4 IS MPLs. you have no drawbacks on that.

You want to run ballistics? How about an IS AC 20 + Clan SRM6s?

It removes any uniqueness of the factions, and makes several weapons even more obsolete than now. If you thought IS SRM2s are rarely used, wait until we can use C-SRMs.

The TBR has heat problems? No worries. Just strap IS ERLLs instead of C-ERLLs, and you're good. Mix in 3 C-ERMPLs, and 4 IS MPLs + 4xSRM6s with Artemis, and you have a 90+ alpha on the mech, that has considerably less heat than if it was using clan weapons only.

This is of course, before we jump into the engines being swapped, and so on and so forth.

It was used in MW4, and on almost every server it was IS battlemechs with Clan weapons.

#52 Radbane

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 01:23 AM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 06 July 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

Here's why Cross tech is a big no no.

You would have no downsides. Oh, running a brawler build? Here's 2 C-LPLs, and 4 IS MPLs. you have no drawbacks on that.
- C-LPL's have more heat and double duration. That's a downside. IS MPL's have less range and less damage. Take 2 C-LPL's and 4 C-SPL's and get better dps, heat and 4 tons for a slightly lesser range on the small pulselasers. Can't see how this would break things.

You want to run ballistics? How about an IS AC 20 + Clan SRM6s?
- IS AC20 weights more, takes more crits and has less range for that single shot instead of a burst. Sounds balanced to me and more of a preference. The SRM's however, yep they need tweaks, clan versions being half size and weight without any drawbacks. But I already mentioned that in my post so why use them as an example against my argument?

It removes any uniqueness of the factions, and makes several weapons even more obsolete than now. If you thought IS SRM2s are rarely used, wait until we can use C-SRMs.
- SRM's again...

The TBR has heat problems? No worries. Just strap IS ERLLs instead of C-ERLLs, and you're good. Mix in 3 C-ERMPLs, and 4 IS MPLs + 4xSRM6s with Artemis, and you have a 90+ alpha on the mech, that has considerably less heat than if it was using clan weapons only.
- Or drop one MPL, go for 6 C-MPL's for better dps and range with almost the same heat. I don't see how mixing it would unbalance things. I'm not touching the SRM's...

This is of course, before we jump into the engines being swapped, and so on and so forth.
- I was only thinking about weapons here. No engines, no equipment, no changing how customizable mechs are.

It was used in MW4, and on almost every server it was IS battlemechs with Clan weapons.
- No comment as I never played MW4 online. But I do believe we would se equal amount of IS weapons on clan mechs as we would see Clan weapons on IS mechs in MWO.


Replies with Italic font in quote.

I see pros and cons with all lasers, AC's and LRM's. PPC's, Gauss and SRM's on the other hand are clearly better on the clan side, and would need to be tweaked.

Oh well, I know it would double my joy while building mechs. I like choices =)

#53 IraqiWalker

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 01:47 AM

View PostRadbane, on 06 July 2015 - 01:23 AM, said:


Replies with Italic font in quote.

I see pros and cons with all lasers, AC's and LRM's. PPC's, Gauss and SRM's on the other hand are clearly better on the clan side, and would need to be tweaked.

Oh well, I know it would double my joy while building mechs. I like choices =)


Why not split the post, so we can reply to the sections easily?

1- The LPL is used for long range burst. While the IS MPLs are used for short range burst, where they outperform their C-counterpoarts.

2- The IS AC 20 might be bigger, but it's more effective in short range over the C-UAC 20. (Not as much now that the firing rate had been adjusted, but the advantage is still in favor of IS.

The problem here is that you're not noticing that IS weapons will compensate for clan weapon drawbacks, and vice versa. The mechs will have no ranges where they are not opitmal.

As for variety of IS weapons on clan mechs. Not as much. Here's why: We wouldn't really see that many clan mechs, unless we're talking IIC mechs. Save for maybe the TBR, SCR, and DWF. Simply because being able to swap upgrades, AND use clan weapons, and engines, ends up being too much of an advantage. Other than those three clan mechs, (Maybe the EBJ as well), and the IIC mechs. Everyone will be running IS battlemechs, with a compliment of clan weapons (and maybe some IS weapons that are better than their counterparts in the preferred range of engagement).

It takes min/maxing to a whole new level.

Every instance of cross-tech so far, has been negative. MW:O's implementation of mechanics will make it no different. (You'd see large clan LRMs on lights, and maybe mediums and IS LRMs on larger mediums, and above, btw).

Whatever short comings one battery of weapons has, the other one can counteract it. That TBR build I listed with the mixed MPLs? You'd use the clan ones at long range. At short range you'd use the IS ones, and when you have the heat, you alpha both for fantastic damage, with less heat.

(Also, heat isn't really comparable on the MPLs. IS ones have no ghost heat limit, and generate 4 heat. While clan ones generate 6 heat, and have a Ghost heat limit.)

TL;DR: you mix both weapon types, and have no drawbacks on your design. Long range clan weapons, short range IS weapons. Clan SRMs all around, IS LRM launchers on heavies, and assaults, with clan LRM launchers on IS lights

Oh, and clan DHS EVERYWHERE. Mix tech also includes mixed upgrades. Like using C-FF, and C-Endo on an IS mech. Not a single IS mech will run around without using both (we already use Endo [14 slots] on 90% of our builds, C-Endo+FF = 14 slots).

Not worth the trouble

#54 Speedy Plysitkos

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 02:57 AM

RAC2/5 + Rocket launcher is insta gimmick.

#55 Raggedyman

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 03:41 AM

How about we get the current weapons balanced and good to play before we add new ones into the mix. And even then can we do it on a broad "what is missing from gameplay" criteria, rather than "what is missing from my playing style".

#56 Dulahan

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 07:11 AM

Regarding Timeline:

Snubnose PPC and Blazer are both in timeline by this stage. The Former was a known weapon, just rare - Star League tech (Honestly, the Protector SHOULD be using that, Kerensky's mech and all). The latter was a Succession Wars experiment that originally was written off due to poor heat, but with the return of DHS and the Helm Memory Core, became viable again.

Snubnoses DEFINITELY existed during Tukkayid on Clanbuster mechs!

That said, not sure a Snubnose is a -good- option, damage drop and all. Rather an additional ERLL/LL and a Heatsink if I only have 6 tons left. But others may find reasons.

#57 Maxx Blue

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 09:51 AM

View PostRaggedyman, on 06 July 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

How about we get the current weapons balanced and good to play before we add new ones into the mix. And even then can we do it on a broad "what is missing from gameplay" criteria, rather than "what is missing from my playing style".


Honest answer? Because we will never get the existing weapons completely balanced. The IS weapons have been out since the beginning of the game and they STILL aren't totally balanced. I don't see any reason to think anything has changed that now makes much greater weapon balance possible. That aside, lets suppose we did get all the existing weapons near perfectly balanced. The minute we add new weapons, that balance will be thrown out the window. New weapons will change the relative 'value' of all the existing weapons anyway as they will provide new combinations that we didn't have to worry about before. Why bother getting the balance perfect before making a change that will break that balance? If weapon balance actually WAS fantastic, that would be a strong reason NOT to add new weapons and risk screwing it up.

Edited by Maxx Blue, 06 July 2015 - 09:52 AM.


#58 Y E O N N E

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:01 AM

View PostDulahan, on 06 July 2015 - 07:11 AM, said:

Regarding Timeline:

Snubnose PPC and Blazer are both in timeline by this stage. The Former was a known weapon, just rare - Star League tech (Honestly, the Protector SHOULD be using that, Kerensky's mech and all). The latter was a Succession Wars experiment that originally was written off due to poor heat, but with the return of DHS and the Helm Memory Core, became viable again.

Snubnoses DEFINITELY existed during Tukkayid on Clanbuster mechs!

That said, not sure a Snubnose is a -good- option, damage drop and all. Rather an additional ERLL/LL and a Heatsink if I only have 6 tons left. But others may find reasons.


A pair of Snub Nose on a Blackjack could allow for one or two more heat-sinks, depending on slot availability. It could also mean running a Standard instead of an XL.

That said, I'd prefer Light PPCs.

#59 Khobai

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:20 AM

Light PPCs are terrible why would you want them added to the game. Theyre just way worse ER med lasers.

If theyre going to add new weapons they should add new weapons that actually give players choices. The Light PPC fails to do that.

The new weapons we need are:

1) lighter weight ballistic weapons for light mechs/medium mechs. Light AC2, machine gun arrays, mech rifles, mech mortars, etc...

2) better missile options for heavy/assault mechs. MRMs/ATMs would be a good start.

Quote

Snubnose PPC and Blazer are both in timeline by this stage.


snubnose PPCs arnt available in 3052. they arnt invented until 3067.

Im all for fudging the timeline maybe 5-6 years to add new equipment/weapons... but 15 years is too much.

Edited by Khobai, 06 July 2015 - 10:28 AM.


#60 FupDup

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Posted 06 July 2015 - 10:21 AM

View PostKhobai, on 06 July 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

Light PPCs are terrible why would you want them.

Its a way worse ER med laser

Combining 2 LPPC is like having a 6-ton PPC instead of a 7-ton PPC. At least it's also PPFLD instead of DoT, but that slow velocity kind of detracts from that...





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