68 replies to this topic

[Maxx Blue]

I'm not quite a founder, but I've been playing this game pretty steadily for a couple years now, and I think I'm ready for some new weapons. When the clans came out that helped a little because the autocannons played somewhat differently as did the LRM's, but on the IS side I've been using the same suite of weapons ever since I started playing. Sure the SRM and LRM patterns and the damage values have changed from time to time, but really I think I've finally reached a point where every build I make on a new IS mech feels like something I already used on a different IS mech. I'm not too far off on feeling that way with clans either thanks to the extreme hardpoint flexibility from Omnipods and the fact that lasers, gauss and PPC's play the same as the IS versions.

Anyway, I think I'm at a point now where I really want to see some new weapon options added. Not necessarily totally new weapon mechanics but more options or side-grades. The PPC variants: light, heavy, snub-nose. Some of the ballistic variants: heavy MG's (not sure light MG's really matter), Light AC2/AC5/Gauss. MRM's for sure. The nice thing about all these is that they wouldn't need to code new mechanics into the client, just add copies of the existing items with some different values in the XML.

Some other stuff might work like X-Pulse lasers, Mech Mortars or Thunderbolt Missile launchers, but I'm not sure about those. MML's and alternate ammo types for AC's would be nice, as well as some of the rock-paper-scissors armor variants, but I guess the game engine makes that unlikely. I do NOT want Heavy Gauss though. Too much PP damage with that one. I'm also not sure about rotary AC's. They could be fun, but might require a new mechanic unless they used the machine gun mechanic and just bumped up the range. It kinda depends on how they would be implemented.

Basically, I'm getting a little tired of putting the same builds on different mechs. I think it would be nice to add some of the other weapons, even if they aren't quite timeline-appropriate, just to give us something new to play with. I don't need the straight-up upgrades like the rest of the IS UAC's and the IS ER lasers, but some of the smaller or odd-ball stuff might be nice.

Personally, I'm not quite at the same point with clan builds, but I wouldn't mind seeing ATM's show up if IS gets MML's somehow. Mostly, it's the IS stuff that is starting to feel very much the same from inside the cockpit.

So anyone else feel this way?

Edited by Maxx Blue, 02 July 2015 - 09:25 AM.

[Alan Davion]

None of those weapons are time-line ready yet.

We're only in 3052/3053. Most of those weapons didn't appear until like... 3057 at the earliest I think, and some not until the 3060's.

[Maxx Blue]

I know that, but I don't think I'm willing to wait five-plus years of my REAL life to play with any new weapons. Are you saying you are?

[Aim64C]

I anticipate a lore time-skip from the conclusion of Tukayyid ... I think I spelled that wrong... to Operation Bulldog with maybe a year or so in transition where we get many of these weapons.

A 1:1 time with lore will end up being ridiculous to maintain for very long. At a 1:1 time scale, the game's art assets and engine will be "legacy" by the time we make it to the FedCom Civil War.

[Team Chevy86]

In the last town hall's Ask a Question thread, I managed to get a post within the first 2 pages asking about adding new defensive equipment or weapons. When it got to about that point... They just bypassed it. So I want to say it's not on the table. It would be nice... I feel your feels bro

Edited by Team Chevy86, 02 July 2015 - 10:14 AM.

[Mystere]

I highly doubt much of the player base is mature enough to be able to handle new weapons.

[Juodas Varnas]

I for one, can't wait for MRM (Medium Range Missiles, that is)
It's IS-only tech of consists of dumb-firing the biggest amount of missiles you can!

They should come out at... 3058? I think

Edited by Juodas Varnas, 02 July 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

Maxx Blue, on 02 July 2015 - 09:28 AM, said:

I know that, but I don't think I'm willing to wait five-plus years of my REAL life to play with any new weapons. Are you saying you are?

I'm betting on a time skip sometime soon.

[1453 R]

I'm not sure how maturity and new weapons are linked.

Mystere, seriously...maybe just take a break for a little bit. I don't know what's bugging you lately, but it can't be good. I get it, this week has been awful on my end and I did not expect it because the Fourth is rarely one of those holidays...but damn, man. Damn.

Anyways. The real issue, I suppose, is that if Piranha went ahead and skipped a few intervening years to pull in new technology, all the old Founders would rise up and scream about how they were BREAKING THEIR PROMISE to stick to a 1:1 timeline. Never mind that the original TT game skipped time by decades at a chunk and covers something like...what? Three hundred years by this point? Anyways. The main thing is that for every player like you and I who'd enjoy seeing some new weapons, new tech, new 'Mechs, new toys...there'd be someone out there raising a most unholy stink because we're getting further away from 3025 and The Ultimate Pinnacle of All Things BattleTech. And, of course, the incredible fuss players would raise over broken promises.

Piranha, after all, is not allowed to change their minds or decide something they said earlier was a mistake or no longer works. Not for any reason, under any circumstances, on any subject. If a junior art intern said it offhand in a bar somewhere and a player heard it then posted it on the forums, it has been written in steel and cannot be undone without the intervention of all the gods that ever were. It doesn't matter if that old decision was a bad one and everyone knows it - they said that's how they were doing it, so that is how it will be.

Now and forevermore.

So yeah. Best hope you can shake that samey feeling, because it's going to be about fifteen IRL years before we get any new gear of any real significance.

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 02 July 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I'm not sure how maturity and new weapons are linked.

Mystere, seriously...maybe just take a break for a little bit. I don't know what's bugging you lately, but it can't be good. I get it, this week has been awful on my end and I did not expect it because the Fourth is rarely one of those holidays...but damn, man. Damn.

Anyways. The real issue, I suppose, is that if Piranha went ahead and skipped a few intervening years to pull in new technology, all the old Founders would rise up and scream about how they were BREAKING THEIR PROMISE to stick to a 1:1 timeline. Never mind that the original TT game skipped time by decades at a chunk and covers something like...what? Three hundred years by this point? Anyways. The main thing is that for every player like you and I who'd enjoy seeing some new weapons, new tech, new 'Mechs, new toys...there'd be someone out there raising a most unholy stink because we're getting further away from 3025 and The Ultimate Pinnacle of All Things BattleTech. And, of course, the incredible fuss players would raise over broken promises.

Piranha, after all, is not allowed to change their minds or decide something they said earlier was a mistake or no longer works. Not for any reason, under any circumstances, on any subject. If a junior art intern said it offhand in a bar somewhere and a player heard it then posted it on the forums, it has been written in steel and cannot be undone without the intervention of all the gods that ever were. It doesn't matter if that old decision was a bad one and everyone knows it - they said that's how they were doing it, so that is how it will be.

Now and forevermore.

So yeah. Best hope you can shake that samey feeling, because it's going to be about fifteen IRL years before we get any new gear of any real significance.

Compromise: Maybe Pea Gee Eye could restrict CW to using 3052 tech only, while letting Puglandia and the Group Ghetto use the new stuff?

Maybe they could add a polling feature to the game launcher itself to get a good gauge of how the playerbase feels?

Edited by FupDup, 02 July 2015 - 10:01 AM.

[DoctorDetroit]

First new weapon could be IS streak 4/6s. Easy to fit into the balance scheme and not at all game changing power creep. But with the new hit reg changes coming soon, weapon balance is definitely going to need some adjustment. Better not overly complicate that with a whole new weapon design.

What would be better is new weapons modules. LRM/SRM/AC velocity increase modules for starters.

[Hobo Dan]

I am pretty sure Mech Mortars are within current timeline.

According to Sarna, they were mostly out of use by the Succession Wars, but upon the reintroduction of AMS (3040), Mech Mortars where revived as an alternative to LRMs because AMS couldn’t shoot them down.

[Greenjulius]

I think with the current uselessness of MGs and AC2s when only 1-2 are used, we need mech rifles. Something needs to make those ballistic based low tonnage lights and mediums useful. Some sort of PGI-ified rules could be used for them, or they could be short ranger range than current ACs. We just need SOMETHING.

Edited by Greenjulius, 02 July 2015 - 10:03 AM.

[FupDup]

Greenjulius, on 02 July 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

I think with the current uselessness of MGs and AC2s when only 1-2 are used, we need mech rifles. Something needs to make those ballistic based low tonnage lights and mediums useful. Some sort of twisted rules could be used for them, or they could be short ranger range than current ACs. We just need SOMETHING.

If PGI used the TT rules for them, then the Light Rifle wouldn't even be able to damage mech armor. :\

They'd have to ignore the damage penalty and make them fire pretty fast to make up for their worse per-ton stats than ACs.

Edited by FupDup, 02 July 2015 - 10:04 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

FupDup, on 02 July 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

If PGI used the TT rules for them, then the Light Rifle wouldn't even be able to damage mech armor. :\

They'd have to ignore the damage penalty and make them fire pretty fast to make up for their worse per-ton stats than ACs.

Right.
The rifles have a 3? damage penalty, so the Light Rifle dealt 0 damage to mechs, Medium Rifle dealt 3 and Heavy Rifle dealt 6.

[Gas Guzzler]

MRMs would be very cool. I wonder how they would behave in this game. Could you imagine shooting an SRM type weapon at 400-500 meters? They would have to fly pretty quick I think..

[Greenjulius]

I'm sure we could come up with something that would make them useful for limited tonnage mechs.

Also, why is the long tom cannon not in the game? It would make long range support much more interesting. Just have a long recycle time and a slow projectile to balance. That way an AC20 would be a better choice for most purposes, while the long tom could be used to flush out squatters/snipers, and offer an option of a support weapon that isn't LRMs. There are honestly so many weapons within the timeline that would make the game more interesting, and should be easy to integrate without breaking balance.

Gas Guzzler, on 02 July 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

MRMs would be very cool. I wonder how they would behave in this game. Could you imagine shooting an SRM type weapon at 400-500 meters? They would have to fly pretty quick I think..

The only issue is that they are 3058 tech. However, if they decide to jump the timeline a few years, they are right around the corner. It would definitely be more interesting than choosing between SRMs/SSRMs and LRMs. They would even give missile based mechs an option to engage past short range without being forced to bring LRMs.

Edited by Greenjulius, 02 July 2015 - 10:13 AM.

[Juodas Varnas]

Gas Guzzler, on 02 July 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

MRMs would be very cool. I wonder how they would behave in this game. Could you imagine shooting an SRM type weapon at 400-500 meters? They would have to fly pretty quick I think..

Yup. To be usable, they would require much faster projectile speed over SRMs. But they would be a nice alternative missile weapon system to have for IS units, due to LRM high minimum range and SRM low maximum range.

[Mystere]

1453 R, on 02 July 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I'm not sure how maturity and new weapons are linked.

If the player base cannot even agree now on balancing current equipment, how can that same player base agree on how to balance new equipment that will potentially break current balancing?

And even at this early stage, there are already rumblings with regard to the IIC mechs.

1453 R, on 02 July 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

Mystere, seriously...maybe just take a break for a little bit. I don't know what's bugging you lately, but it can't be good. I get it, this week has been awful on my end and I did not expect it because the Fourth is rarely one of those holidays...but damn, man. Damn.

As I said in another thread:



with the exception of the "I hate to go!" part, of course.

Edited by Mystere, 02 July 2015 - 10:17 AM.

[FupDup]

Greenjulius, on 02 July 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Also, why is the long tom cannon not in the game? It would make long range support much more interesting. Just have a long recycle time and a slow projectile to balance.

It's 20 tons and 15 critical slots, good luck trying to fit that thing on a mech.