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Why Star Citizen Is Likely Going To Be A Complete Disaster


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#61 Mister Blastman

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:51 PM

View PostGremlich Johns, on 10 July 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

I could ask you the same question and it would also serve no purpose. That isn't the question here anyway, not sniping at each other to justify a point.


I think it is important. The games he's written and published says a lot about his tenacity and resilience. He doesn't give up. He might not create a-list titles and admittedly, the ones he has made are overly complicated. That doesn't mean he's a dummy or sub-par. You usually have to be at least reasonably intelligent to write computer code (average to slightly above average)--but to create your own universe and game, well, that requires a good bit more intelligence than an average person.

His problem has always been organization, at least, from my limited time playing his games. They try to do so much but darn it, they're terribly hard to operate.

He's definitely qualified to share his opinion on the genre. His record of publishing titles and being paid money for them gives him this.

#62 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 10 July 2015 - 02:53 PM

Most of his efforts are derivative works and unmemorable. I submit that you could easily do as well as he has.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 10 July 2015 - 02:54 PM.


#63 Alreech

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 12:57 PM

Star Citizen will be a complete disaster by the same reasons that make Elite Dangerous a complete disaster.
"Lack of content". ;)

Both games are about flying a spaceship and have strong roots in older games like Elite, Frontier, Wing Commander, Privateer and Starlancer.
Even with more than 20 flyable ships and upcoming FPS elements most of the content that defines Eve Online will be missing.
Shortly after the launch of the first episode of Squadron 42 a vocal minority will start complaining about the fact that Squadron 42 isn't "Eve Online 2.0" or "X Reborn 2".

The nice ones will tell you to give the game later a try (like in two years, when it's not beta any more...) the angry ones will try to convince you to avoid the game at all costs.
The whole bunch will be supported by disappointed SC-Fans, that are upset that feature xyz isn't done like it was told 3 years ago at posting #5 on page 4 of a 400+ page strong thread in the star citizen forum.

I'm strongly thinking about buying a cheap ship from Roberts Space Industry, because being a disappointed backer gives each troll more street creed when dissing a game... ;)

tl:dr
the hype about the ultimate Space Game will cause a lot of nerd rage and lulz then the game finally hits the shelf because it's impossible to satisfy all the exceptions.

#64 Mister Blastman

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 02:55 PM

View PostAlreech, on 11 July 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Star Citizen will be a complete disaster by the same reasons that make Elite Dangerous a complete disaster.
"Lack of content". ;)


He Elite isn't a disaster at all. It's actually a lot of fun!

And it is on sale this weekend, 33% off.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 11 July 2015 - 02:55 PM.


#65 Catamount

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Posted 11 July 2015 - 04:57 PM

Oh boy, here we go. The FPS module gets delayed by a few weeks and the gloom and doom gets trotted out... again. It's exactly what happened when the DFM got delayed a bit, and of course, the DFM came out anyways, people on forums slowly tapered off the babbling on about nothing in particular except "Star Citizen is going to be teh suxxors", while the player base shrugged, went off and played the game, ie what I'll go and do in a few minutes now that nothing interesting is happening on the forums I frequent.

TLDR: Yawn

#66 Alreech

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Posted 12 July 2015 - 03:22 AM

View PostMister Blastman, on 11 July 2015 - 02:55 PM, said:


He Elite isn't a disaster at all. It's actually a lot of fun!

I know, I play it and I like it.

But there is no offline mode (David Braben lied !!!11elf), and you can't build or manage your own space station and run your own cooperation (like in Eve Online), and those are two good reasons for some to diss the game in each forum.
Exactly the same will happen with Star Citzien...

But lack of content is also the fault of many other games, for example Project Cars. All you can do in this game is to drive around in circles, you can't build your own motordrome or manage your own car company... ;)

#67 Lily from animove

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 02:21 AM

Too much features they want to do with SC, no one will ever be able to maintain this, and when hardware changes and operation systems and even the Engine, who is going t maintain that all?, and even further, who is paying those costs to keep these changes alive. The las of the planned features will be added when the first already will break.

#68 Mister Blastman

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Posted 14 July 2015 - 06:16 AM

This is why I'm irritated at Star Citizen. It sums it up in a nice video. Watch how he plays. One hand. One chair. One desk. Domination (though he didn't beat it).

This is not what we were promised. Yes, it is an older version... but not much has changed insofar as controls since then.



#69 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 02:52 PM

The ONLY things CIG is promising, if we care to use that inappropriate word, are Squadron 42 and the Persistent Universe.

Are either of those games out yet? No. The game development is still in Alpha for modules which will become parts of those two games.

If not, people's arguments against CIG are moot.

Derek Smart is a sociopathic megalomaniac narcissist who fears being left in obscurity by a project that shows promise at levels NONE of his ever have. He can say he thought about it, but MOST of us older than 20 can easily make that same claim, but we, like Dr D Smart, do not have the abilities and skills necessary to pull it off.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 21 July 2015 - 02:33 PM.


#70 Mister Blastman

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 09:39 AM

Hmm. It seems we have been HEARD! We'll see. They seem to be "getting" the controller imbalance now.

Per Chris Roberts in his most recent interview...

Quote

00:38:20 – What are your thoughts on controller balance?

– Feels like one of those battles, like Waterloo.

– Controller balance is going to be a complete ongoing thing, it’s something we’re very aware of. I’ve stated from the beginning I want the game to be controller agnostic so I do not want there to be a super class of user that because of their controller they can be better or beat everyone else.

– We do have inherent problem controllers in that some different controller interfaces are good for different things. So, a joystick or HOTAS is much better for flying precisely than a mouse, but a mouse if using a gimballed weapon is better for precise aiming. For the same reason a keyboard/mouse on a PC can school anyone using a gamepad in an FPS shooter.

– So, they have different strengths and I think the right answer in this is to allow complete option, player can have whatever they want, and to make sure the strengths of one thing are countered by a con. Like… yes, you have aiming if you have a mouse and gimballed weapon but your flying’s not so good. If you have joystick and you’re flying, your flying gives you an advantage that you can use over someone with a mouse.

– We haven’t got that balanced properly yet so that’s where we’ve been working on stuff, 1.1.5 patch that’s coming out we’ve still been playing around with some of the stuff.

– One of the big things, we’d announced awhile back was gimballed weapons…the gimbal itself takes up a size class and you have to drop down a size for a weapon

– Problem in the past, the size 1 weapon damage output compared to the size 2 damage output, there was maybe a 20-30% increase between size 1 and size 2. That doesn’t make much sense, it should be closer to say twice that much.

– I’m not saying it’s twice as much but if you get my drift you have a real pro and con there. The guy with the joystick, he might want to go with fixed weapons so that’s more difficult to put on target but when he does, he’s doing twice as much damage as opposed to a mouse who’s easier to put on target but doing half the amount of damage.

– You’ve got other things, the bigger the gun gets on the gimbal, maybe the slower the gimbal reacts.

– Those are things we are actively wanting and trying to balance. The biggest problem is we have so many things going on and we also have other considerations.

– Right now you’re just playing AC with single seater ships and dogfighting and the full game(PU) is not going to be all about that.

– Multicrew ships are going to be one of the big things. Flying with NPCs or friends and there’s going to be a whole different variety of different piloting styles.

– You can’t take a Constellation and dogfight the same way you can in a Hornet but other things in a Constellation you’ll have an advantage with.

– There’s also other things like in AC, there’s that respawn mechanic, people fire a bunch of missiles then they kill themselves so they can fire more missiles.

– That’s not going to happen in the real game, first you won’t want to kill yourself cause that’s a pain in the ass. Second, missiles are going to cost credits that you’re going to have to earn so you’re not going to spam them like that.

– There are certain play styles right now that happen in AC that won’t happen in the final game, that can give you an impression that one controller can have an advantage.

– We want to make AC itself a fun experience for everybody using their controllers and each one having their pros and cons.

– Also be aware that there are other considerations we are just coming into so in some ways we don’t want to be definitive, like, this is what it’s going to be like. We have to get the multicrew ships in and a bit more variety happening before we have a good sense of the full picture.

– Figure out how to best give each controller it’s own pro and con and make them feel sorta equal. Not to say we don’t experiment and play around with stuff, I think one of the problems is we held off on an AC patch because we thought FPS was going to be sooner so we haven’t really patched anything in AC for quite a few months. That was our sorta balance iteration.

– 1.1.5 has some balance iteration stuff that will hopefully make this a little better, maybe it won’t.

– I’ve made a real sorta commitment now and focus on the team and say, ‘No matter what, we’re busy trying to get things out like say multicrew, FPS or SQ42.’

– We can’t constantly be iterating on AC and trying to improve that and balancing that and taking people’s feedback.

– If I go take a look at being away and come back, it sorta feels like there isn’t a lot of new things to play with, at some point everyone gets bored and it becomes more about arguing about things then playing stuff.

– We’re trying to get back onto the content and delivering and taking people’s feedback and adjusting.

– Be patient with us, we’re committed to make it a fun experience for all.

– For all means, beginners playing the game have it fun. Then there’s detail and depth that more experienced people can get into. You sorta grow with it.

– My goal, so easy to play but hard to master. It’s a cliche in the game business but it’s a very true mantra of what would make a good game.

– We are focused on that so don’t worry the way the controllers are aren’t the way they’ll continue to be.

– Our plan is not to gimp things but to really try and make things have their pros and cons. It will take time to get there and we’ll need your feedback.

- BL – So to speak directly to the controller balance thread, you would say gimbals are here to stay but we want to balance them in such a way that folks more skilled with a joystick have an advantage over someone using mouse.

- CR – Yeah, 100%. I can’t see any version of the future that you wouldn’t have some level of your weapons gimballed. Like Star Wars, there’s guns on turrets and stuff but there needs to be a con to that, to a pro on someone’s that flying…..Luke and his X-wing didn’t have gimballed weapons and he seemed to do pretty good.

- BL – He had a magic force.

- CR – The Millennium Falcon had it’s little turret on it. So, obviously gimbals and turrets for the same multicrew vehicles are super useful cause they won’t have the maneuverability that a single seater fighter will.

– We certainly don’t want it to be that someone with a gimbal has all the benefits and none of the downside, that’s kinda the goal.

– We’re committed to making it as balanced as possible. I would say in general, you would see more turrets and gimbals on bigger ships to make up for the maneuverability.

– The smaller ships we’re going to try and balance in such a way that you can put a gimbal on it but you’re kinda nerfing your ability to do damage.

– We have all this tweaking for power, distribution of that and shields. We’ve only scratched the surface of that and the physical based damage will also help alot with the balancing. It’s early days, ultimately with your help we’ll have something maybe not everybody’s 100% happy with but I think it’ll be good enough for everybody and I don’t feel like I’m unfairly hamstrung


http://imperialnews....man-episode-60/

#71 Tank

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Posted 21 July 2015 - 06:05 PM

More you're getting "SOONtm" on controller stuff.

Pretty interesting interview, but raises more questions then it answers. Only time will tell...

#72 XxXAbsolutZeroXxX

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 11:27 AM

Wow.

I haven't kept up with this.

But things are getting crazy.

Quote

Derek Smart is refusing to take his refunded $250 Star Citizen pledge lying down


It’s hard to visualise $85 million, but try. Imagine it all stacked up neatly in crisp $1 bills. It’s astronomical. That’s how much money Star Citizen has been given in pledges. If we measure the success of a crowdfunded game in how much money it’s made, then Star Citizen is an unprecedented success. If we measure the success in tangible results, however, then Star Citizen still has a long way to go.

The vast amount of money raised, the new elements, delayed anticipated elements and what many consider to be a lack of transparency have given some backers pause. One of those backers is developer Derek Smart, who made his concerns known in several blog posts, the latest of which went up today, along with the promise that he’ll be taking an ad out in the New York Times. And his concerns, as well as the reactions to those concerns, have escalated considerably. Now it’s personal.

On July 6th, 3000AD’s Derek Smart wrote a blog post regarding Cloud Imperium’s Star Citizen. Smart was an early backer during the Kickstarter campaign, pledging $250 to the project. Writing on his blog, Smart advised backers to get in touch with the Federal Trade Commission (FTC), the US consumer protection agency, if they felt that they had been misled by the Kickstarter.

On July 13th, Roberts Space Industries (RSI), the subsidiary of Cloud Imperium developing Star Citizen, emailed Smart to inform him that his account had been cancelled and that his original pledge was being refunded. The email was curt, though RSI were within there rights to refund the pledge according to the Kickstarter ToS.
That might have been the end of it, but Smart doesn’t consider this a win. He doesn’t want a refund and it doesn’t change how he feels about RSI or Star Citizen. If anything, the way it’s all been handled has made him more frustrated.
“I never wanted a refund at all. It was never my intention.”
Smart still considers himself a backer, seeing as that his cheque from RSI has yet to arrive. And what he wants is for Chris Roberts and his team to be held accountable.

“What I really wanted was accountability, to know where my pledge went and what was going on with the product,” Smart told me over Skype this afternoon. It was the first time I'd spoken to Derek. He was friendly, relaxed. Perfectly amiable. Nothing like the firebrand I expected.“You must remember, I was one of the original backers. I was excited when this product went online, I was excited with Elite, you know. After a while I realised that things weren’t happening fast enough. The signs were all there that there was something very wrong.”

It was after the Star Marine module delay and after reading the blog posts from Roberts around that time that Smart started to get concerned. After speaking with friends who were involved in development, and some who had already left, “a really bad picture started forming,” he explained, “and it just went from there.”
“It was never about the money”

Given that RSI was not exactly in the habit of giving out refunds, when Smart received a notification from Kickstarter, he was “shocked”. He tweeted about it, and eventually other backers wanted to know if RSI was giving out refunds to any backers who wanted them. On the forums, a backer made a poll, and by the time it closed, around a quarter of the 1173 voters believed that a refund option should exist.

RSI’s Ben Lesnick eventually stepped in to explain the situation.
“We refunded Mr. Smart’s package because he was using Star Citizen as a platform to gain attention as part of a campaign to promote his ‘Line of Defense’ space game. Our ToS (or in this case the Kickstarter ToS) allows us to refund troubled users who we would rather not have interacting with the community.”
You can read the full forum post on a screenshot from Smart’s blog.
Things had taken a rather personal turn.

“I know who wrote it, I’ve already heard who was behind that post going up, and they’re going to pay, even if it doesn’t come from me,” said Smart when I brought up the forum post. “Everyone’s going to end up with full accountability. They made it personal, it’s not professional. It wasn’t coming from Chris [Roberts], it wasn't coming from PR, it was just coming from this guy, in a forum, with direction from whoever he’s answering to, and I’m not going to name names, but I already know how it went up, and they’re all going to account for it.”

Smart believes that the poll scared RSI, and that the studio was not banking on any attention being given to him. He thinks there’s an element of fear driving some of the backers as well, a small percent of them that are now attacking him while defending RSI.

“It’s human nature, it’s about denial.”

Smart continued blogging about Star Citizen with a third article, posted today, titled Interstellar Justice. Near the bottom, there’s a list. The items on the list could be characterised as demands or ultimatums, and almost certainly will be by Roberts and RSI. Smart sees them as options, however, and not demands. There are four items, and they start with Smart calling for Roberts to resign as CEO.

If that’s not dramatic enough, Smart also calls for RSI to refund every Kickstarter backer and give backers the opportunity to hire a forensic accountant and executive producer to perform an audit. Smart even offers to pay for this by putting $1 million in an escrow account.

The list ends with, “If you ignore this, the more time passes, the more articles that myself, and investigative media write, revealing what we know, the more likely it is that this will end in legal (someone suing someone, and opening the flood gates) action, thereby forcing you all to come to court and answer these questions.”
That’s where he thinks this is heading.

I asked Smart what, knowing that the list will be ignored, his goal with it was. It seemed almost like a piece of theatre, and by Smart’s own admission at the top of the blog post, “drama, flair, hyperbole, sarcasm, humor” are all part of how he writes and acts.
“Psychologically you should never put someone in a position where they feel like they have no choice, there’s no out,” Smart told me. “Human nature is to dig in... and when you dig in, and somebody has nowhere to go, and you leave them with no alternative, they’re going to do the dumbest thing imaginable. Specifically, how they did my refund. That’s the sort of thing that happens when people freak out.
“I wanted to give them options, because it’s easy to say ‘We screwed up, we should have known better, we’re going to walk away.’ It happens all the time.”

It sounded to me like the sort of things you’d expect dissatisfied investors or board members to say, rather than Kickstarter backers. I wondered if Smart saw himself and his fellow backers as Star Citizen’s investors.
“The thing that people have been forgetting about is the word I’ve been trying to push. It’s got nothing to do with what you’re vested in, in the broad sense of the word, it’s more about accountability. If you walk into a store and buy something, you have some expectation of satisfaction. If you order something online, you have an expectation of it being delivered to you.
“People who say ‘You’re crowdfunding, don’t expect anything,” they are right, in the sense that you shouldn’t expect anything to be delivered. The difference is, if you go to Amazon and you order something and it doesn’t show up, you have recourse. But when you crowdfund, the only recourse that you have are mostly individuals who, without accountability, can just walk away into the sunset scott free with your money.”
That’s where he sees the FTC playing an important role in protecting consumers’ rights, holding crowdfunders accountable. And he believes that backers do have a legal recourse and that the FTC will eventually come in and enforce changes.
“The FTC is aware of it,” Smart said. “My guess is, right now, they’re formulating a plan to address it. There’s no getting away from that. When you’re talking $85 million, a lot of irate people and all these newsbits and everything that’s going on, there’s no way they can avoid it. So what I think is happening is, even though they could continue pushing it forever, the FTC, once they get in there, they’re going to trump all that. It’s going to come to a screeching halt. I can almost guarantee it. So that was the purpose of me writing my first article saying somebody has to be accountable for this before it falls apart.”

If the FTC does roll in, will it lead to a change in crowdfunding, bringing it more in line with other types of transactions? Smart doesn’t think so. He believes that crowdfunding will peter out in favour of alternatives like equity funding.
“Down the road, somebody going on Kickstarter and asking for a million dollars is less likely to get any traction than somebody who goes through the regular channels of equity funding with SEC regulations and asking for $5 million.”
As much as Smart’s blogs and RSI’s reaction have spurred on a lot of discussion about crowdfunding and game development, throughout it there’s been a vicious undercurrent. Punches have been thrown from behind keyboards, at both Chris Roberts (and RSI in general) and at Smart himself.

“I knew I’d get attacked, I knew that people would make it about me, because I’m a controversial figure. The thing people are missing is that I’m a controversial figure because I’m not afraid of asking or saying things that evoke thought. That’s what people are missing. A lot of people will hide behind PR, hide behind a keyboard, but people know who I am.
“I just want people to look at this at face value. Stop making it about me.”


http://www.pcgamesn....edge-lying-down

#73 MarineTech

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 12:02 PM

Posted Image

Wailey Wailey Wailey.


I was around for the whole Derek Smart Battlecruiser fiasco.... I do believe the man is a complete hack.

With that said though, he actually does have some valid points about accountability is the crowdfunding arena. Getting $85 million in funding through normal channels, and you would be accountable to the investors. From kickstarter though, and you can just walk off into the sunset? Yeah, I don't think so.

I have an account over on Star Citizen to follow game progress, but I haven't spent a dime on the game yet. I've been waiting to see an actual playable product before diving in.

#74 Heffay

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 01:07 PM

I was always neutral on Derek Smart before this. But he has gone full plaid. Demanding that Chris Roberts resign, and then saying it's not a demand? Demanding they refund ALL the money they've raised so far? Presumably even the money they've spent developing the game so far?

Wow...

#75 Iqfish

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 01:12 PM

"Hello guys, I am Derek Smart"

"Nobody knows my **** and nobody cares about me. That's why I am jealous now and decided to **** on other peoples projects!"

#76 Gremlich Johns

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Posted 22 July 2015 - 04:34 PM

A quote from Derek Smart's interview above, please keep in mind that he claims to be a premier game developer and his unmemorable games have taken sometimes more than three years to be pushed out as minimally viable:

" After a while I realised that things weren’t happening fast enough. The signs were all there that there was something very wrong.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 22 July 2015 - 04:35 PM.






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