67 replies to this topic

[Moomtazz]

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 07:57 PM, said:

My point is below your belt?




I always believe that those who have Economics, or Political Science, or International Relations degrees should run the country--not a bunch of lawyers.

What type of degrees do you imagine those lawyers have?

[El Bandito]

Moomtazz, on 11 July 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

What type of degrees do you imagine those lawyers have?

Law degree.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Bishop Steiner, on 11 July 2015 - 07:49 PM, said:

I've dropped with pretty much every forum tryhard. With the exception a few with tags like EMP or LORDs, none were noteworthy.


So what does that tell you?

Yay! I'm not notable!

(Seriously, I had no clue I was considered a forum tryhard until one guy asked why I was in a Vindicator last night.)

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Law degree.

Bazinga!

[Drasari]

bad arcade kitty, on 11 July 2015 - 07:42 PM, said:

it would be fun if we had proper ranked like lol and dota have

afaik most of lol developers are of average elo

I don't think we need to see or know. All that will happen is arguments over someones rank on the forums as to how valid their post is. I would much rather have facts presented and not dismissed just base of of some iLVL/Achieves/ELO/Rank.

[Mystere]

Moomtazz, on 11 July 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

What type of degrees do you imagine those lawyers have?

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Law degree.

This was me reading this particular exchange:



Thanks.

Edited by Mystere, 11 July 2015 - 09:31 PM.

[Ninjamoose]

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 09:01 PM, said:

Guess that's why Flamers are useless for all this time. Must have been OP. Same deal with LBX, and Machine gun.

It's because those weapons would be impossible to balance without making them outshine their counterparts or* be totally unfun to play against.

Edited by Ninjamoose425, 11 July 2015 - 09:32 PM.

[Adiuvo]

Russ is the CEO. He shouldn't really have enough time to play the game to reach high elo.

Members of the balance team, however, probably should. One of them at the very least. That or they need to take feedback specifically from top players.

[Moomtazz]

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 09:22 PM, said:

Law degree.

Undergrad?

[El Bandito]

Moomtazz, on 11 July 2015 - 09:50 PM, said:

Undergrad?

Most likely. The rest is usually up to personal connection.

Ninjamoose425, on 11 July 2015 - 09:32 PM, said:

It's because those weapons would be impossible to balance without making them outshine their counterparts or* be totally unfun to play against.

Now that's just your lazy brain talking. The fact of the matter is PGI had not seriously attempted to balance any of those weapons. Only note worthy change they did was to make machine guns suck.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 July 2015 - 10:08 PM.

[Fate 6]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 07:53 PM, said:

Should astronauts be the only ones qualified to design and build space ships?
Should generals be the only ones qualified to design and build weapons?
Should Formula 1 drivers be the only ones qualified to design and build race cars?
Should politicians (gasp!) be the only ones qualified to run a country?

To become a general you must first be a soldier. To be a video game designer you must first be a gamer. Why do you think Riot games asks you for your rank when you apply for a job?

[Ninjamoose]

El Bandito, on 11 July 2015 - 10:03 PM, said:

Now that's just your lazy brain talking. The fact of the matter is PGI had not seriously attempted to balance any of those weapons. Only note worthy change they did was to make machine guns suck.

Then how do you propose fixing them, then? Making MG's crit machines still keeps them useless, giving them any sort of usable DPS makes then by default better than the AC/2, which is pretty comparable to being the best performing at the special olympics.

The Flamer generating a ton of heat for the other guy isn't fun for them, like, at all, and making them crit machines (a la machinegun) obsoletes the MG's. You could vent heat with it, which would be pretty cool, but who's going to dedicate a slot to a ****** Coolant shot?

The LBX was made to be a shotgun solely to keep the AC10 at least kind of a viable choice over it. Buffing its crit damage will have the same effect as buffing it on the MG's, it's too niche to use and it's role is performed just as well as any other weapon system ever, and buffing its spread any more than it is currently will effectively make it an AC/10 for way less tonnage.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Ninjamoose425, on 11 July 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

The LBX was made to be a shotgun solely to keep the AC10 at least kind of a viable choice over it.

LBX is a little bit easy to give a role, buff its damage potential. Done.
Whether it be improving the damage per pellet or to artificially simulate the spread and reduced effectiveness make it one bullet who's damage scales based on distance traveled.

[Ninjamoose]

WM Quicksilver, on 11 July 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

LBX is a little bit easy to give a role, buff its damage potential. Done.
Whether it be improving the damage per pellet or to artificially simulate the spread and reduced effectiveness make it one bullet who's damage scales based on distance traveled.

I... Can't argue this. I can dig it.

[El Bandito]

Ninjamoose425, on 11 July 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

Then how do you propose fixing them, then? Making MG's crit machines still keeps them useless, giving them any sort of usable DPS makes then by default better than the AC/2, which is pretty comparable to being the best performing at the special olympics.

The Flamer generating a ton of heat for the other guy isn't fun for them, like, at all, and making them crit machines (a la machinegun) obsoletes the MG's. You could vent heat with it, which would be pretty cool, but who's going to dedicate a slot to a ****** Coolant shot?

The LBX was made to be a shotgun solely to keep the AC10 at least kind of a viable choice over it. Buffing its crit damage will have the same effect as buffing it on the MG's, it's too niche to use and it's role is performed just as well as any other weapon system ever, and buffing its spread any more than it is currently will effectively make it an AC/10 for way less tonnage.

For MG, it is easy. Remove its CoF for starters. So that it will have reliable accuracy beyond 70 meters.

LBX is also easy. Buff the pellet damage so it will be deadlier at close range but still sucky at long range.
http://mwomercs.com/...particular-but/

Flamer can be done in multiple ways. Sticky heat duration, or chance for ammo and DHS explosion when exposed to it for long, even when armored--which will actually teach people to pack C.A.S.E. That way, Flamer will be effective against laser vomit builds and ammo based builds.


The point is, DO SOMETHING WITH THAT PUBLIC TEST SERVER OF YOURS, PGI!

Edited by El Bandito, 11 July 2015 - 10:43 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Ninjamoose425, on 11 July 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

Then how do you propose fixing them, then? Making MG's crit machines still keeps them useless, giving them any sort of usable DPS makes then by default better than the AC/2, which is pretty comparable to being the best performing at the special olympics.

The Flamer generating a ton of heat for the other guy isn't fun for them, like, at all, and making them crit machines (a la machinegun) obsoletes the MG's. You could vent heat with it, which would be pretty cool, but who's going to dedicate a slot to a ****** Coolant shot?

The LBX was made to be a shotgun solely to keep the AC10 at least kind of a viable choice over it. Buffing its crit damage will have the same effect as buffing it on the MG's, it's too niche to use and it's role is performed just as well as any other weapon system ever, and buffing its spread any more than it is currently will effectively make it an AC/10 for way less tonnage.

These are simple enough to make less useless, while keeping PGI's "Crit Weapon" ideology.


Revert the 20% MG damage nerf, which was a preemtive strike because of a hitreg "fix". Helps crits as well, keep the 9x crit damage.


Flamers, change current heat generation to a flat number as opposed to :


Up damage or crit damage multiplier (Presently 1.1x, MGs are at 9x). The multiplier means more damage to the Internal Structure (because 15% crit damage=real damage). They don't have the 3M CoF the MGs do, and don't consume ammo, but they do weight twice as much and have less range. A starting place, perhaps same 1 DPS as the MGs.


For the LBx, 2 solid options in my opinion. A is simple, just increase damage (as mentioned above) by 20% or 30%.
Option B, significantly increase crit damage multiplier, from 2x current to 5x suggested. Instead of taking 5 crits to destroy your typical item, it only takes 2 (with a 67% crit chance for each pellet). This means even the lowly LB2x has a chance to destroy items when it hits IS. Also increases damage once you breach IS, from the current 0.3 extra damage per crit up to an impressive 0.75 extra damage per crit (nearly 2x damage, better than the 20% blanket buff, but this only works against Structure and is dictated by RNGeesus).



Aside from the Flamer heat (I don't even know where the extra heat generation comes from...) those suggestions are easy .XML edits.

In 3 minutes, I've made laughable weapons into potentially too powerful, but short range, versions of themselves.



In other news...why does the Flamer have a CoF stat? It can headshot (stationary) robots from max range.

Weapon faction="InnerSphere" HardpointAliases="Energy,Flamer,ISFlamer" name="Flamer" id="1007">
<Loc iconTag="StoreIcons\Flamer.dds" descTag="@Flamer_desc" nameTag="@Flamer"/>
<WeaponStats maxDepth="10.0" volleydelay="0.25" speed="100" lifetime="1.0" duration="-1.0" tons="1" maxRange="90.0" longRange="90.0" minRange="0" ammoPerShot="0" ammoType="" cooldown="0.0" heat="1.0" impulse="0.0" heatdamage="0.0" damage="0.7" numFiring="1" projectileclass="" type="Energy" slots="1" Health="10" maxheight="0" critChanceIncrease="0.14,0.08,0.03" critDamMult="1.1" trgheatinctime="3.0" heatinctime="6.25" coneoffire="10"/>

I also find the lack of capitals in those last few values disturbing...


It doesn't take high Elo to change .XML files once every second week.

Edited by Mcgral18, 11 July 2015 - 11:02 PM.

[Mystere]

Fate 6, on 11 July 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

To become a general you must first be a soldier.

Hold a second! Did you just imply that one has to first be a soldier before being able to design and build weapons?

Fate 6, on 11 July 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

To be a video game designer you must first be a gamer. Why do you think Riot games asks you for your rank when you apply for a job?

Which came first, the video gamer or the video game?

[1453 R]

Adiuvo, on 11 July 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Russ is the CEO. He shouldn't really have enough time to play the game to reach high elo.

Members of the balance team, however, probably should. One of them at the very least. That or they need to take feedback specifically from top players.

A semicompetitive dev would help. So would a community management team which can actually translate community issues back to the dev team - Tina's been great so far, but we all know she's a community placator, not a community manager. The CM job in this cesspit is not so much to communicate with the devs on behalf of the forums, but to somehow manage to convince the forums they're being listened to whilst ensuring developers never have to read a single word posted here. I don't really blame Tina for that, it's the job they hired her to do...but it also means Piranha has very little clue where the rest of the game is sitting, and no context for their metric data.

Going to have to call nope on the top-players thing though, Adiuvo. While you guys certainly have a lot to contribute, you also have a vested interest in ensuring this game is as unforgiving and inaccessible as possible, as well as no interest whatsoever in ensuring that the game remains playable, fluid, and fun for everyone who runs it, at all skill levels. The top-end comp guys are great for identifying issues. I would not rely on them for providing solutions. It's one of the reasons I'm so freaking salty over the fact that Piranha has openly admitted that they ignore this place completely - a proper CM team, with enough staff to get the job done and enough pull with the company to actually get some of this crap addressed at the meetings, would be infinitely better than 'bother Bishop to bug Russ on Twitter'.

I get that Russ is the CEO, and he really has no business doing CM work. His job is to steer the company as a whole; Tina's job, on paper, is to be the one talking to us, figuring out what the general mood around here is, and then taking that up to Russ, Paul, and the other folks responsible for game direction. But when you tell your forum userbase, to their faces, in so many words, that you've pretty much given up paying any attention whatsoever to your own official forums...

Piranha? At this point, I'm not even sure I care overmuch if you listen to the ultracomps and the ultracomps only. Listen to friggin' someone. Developing in isolation has not been working.

At least if the ultracomps get their shot and then the game becomes unplayable for anyone who isn't a regular RHoD or whatever league is the big one now competitor, we can all then proceed to blame the ultracomps for a while instead of blaming Piranha. The change of pace alone might be worth the hassle.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Which came first, the video gamer or the video game?

To be fair, video game design wasn't very solidified when video games first started. No one quite knew what separated good games from bad games when games were first developed. Sort of like software engineering wasn't really a field until after several pieces of software had been made.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 11 July 2015 - 11:32 PM.

[Xetelian]

Adiuvo, on 11 July 2015 - 09:38 PM, said:

Russ is the CEO. He shouldn't really have enough time to play the game to reach high elo.

Members of the balance team, however, probably should. One of them at the very least. That or they need to take feedback specifically from top players.

I believe exactly the opposite.

I think as CEO you're obligated to play your product. Do I think Paul Mitchell should use his own shampoo? Yes.

Best way to tell if someone can have fun doing something is to do it first. Everything can sound fun on paper but playing basketball, lifting weights and shanking guys seems awesome on paper but the bars on the windows leave a lot to be desired.

If you can't understand WHY the IFR is so BAD and you drop "does it have a CT Energy point yet?" while 2 of them already came with that and that was like 3-4 town halls ago and the IFR is just as bad as ever even with a CT energy point.


I don't think he plays nearly enough and knows a LOT less about his product than I'm comfortable with.

[YueFei]

Mystere, on 11 July 2015 - 11:11 PM, said:

Hold a second! Did you just imply that one has to first be a soldier before being able to design and build weapons?

The weapon's designers should take feedback from the soldiers.