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Catapult Chasis


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#1 Soldier91

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 08:38 PM

Is there anything wrong with the catapult mechs?
I have my mechbays full of panthers right now and have a few mastered I was thinking of selling them off for some a new mech type. I was thinking the catapult looks pretty neat and I wanted something with a bit of armor to it. Seems like this one has a nice mix of stuff and a dedicated missile one but before I buy one I was just wondering if there is anything wonky sort of like my panther tends to aim really low due to the weapon mounting points, catapult is a lot bigger so I thought it might not have that kind of problem.

#2 TercieI

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 08:42 PM

Catapults are huge and have a CT you can't protect that can get shot out very easily. I've mastered all five, but they're not in a very good state these days. On the plus side, you can usually put an XL in them because your CT will get blown out first anyway, so they make good use of their tonnage. :/ Not recommended for a new player, though. Also, I'd hold onto your PTRs if you can, selling gets you very few CB.

Welcome to MWO and good luck.

#3 Spheroid

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 10:02 PM

It has bad hitboxes combined with bad quirks. Really the Jagermech-A or one of the Thunderbolts can do much of the same mission.

If you just want high weapon mounts perhaps a Shadow Hawk or Blackjack.

#4 Soldier91

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 11:31 PM

Spoiler

Interesting, I'm sort of use to trying to protect my CT since the panther has a spare arm, I sort of figured the catapult might not be able to do that but lately the shield arm strategy hasn't been working that well why I was looking into a heavier mech, heavy = more weapons = kill stuff faster to take less damage.
I know what you mean about resell value kind of how I messed up my first account a couple years ago ended up stuck in a commando. With trial mechs and stuff though I don't see that happening this time around. Originally I was going to pick up some MC for mechbays when I get around to it and hang on to them but I'm maxing out XP on these faster than I thought I would and I don't plan on picking up extra bays for a while.
I also tend to like stuff that's bigger than light mechs they're too fast. slow is smooth smooth is fast. I get in a light and I end up running into buildings and forget to aim :D

View PostSpheroid, on 26 July 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

It has bad hitboxes combined with bad quirks. Really the Jagermech-A or one of the Thunderbolts can do much of the same mission.

If you just want high weapon mounts perhaps a Shadow Hawk or Blackjack.

Are quirks really that important? I was thinking of just ignoring them mostly unless they had a bonus to ERPPC I was going to try to specialize with those with weapon modules and stuff while I go along they're kinda pricy I'm not made of cbills.
I got advanced zoom a while back when I decided I liked the panther and wanted to master them, since I started on that I don't see myself straying too far from that plan.
Quirks don't seem too great unless you stack relevant modules with it.

#5 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 26 July 2015 - 11:54 PM

View PostSoldier91, on 26 July 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

the panther has a spare arm


Posted Image

#6 Nightshade24

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:47 AM

View PostSpheroid, on 26 July 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

It has bad hitboxes combined with bad quirks. Really the Jagermech-A or one of the Thunderbolts can do much of the same mission.

If you just want high weapon mounts perhaps a Shadow Hawk or Blackjack.

Not really bad hitboxes, the arms are a bit to big but besides that is quite fine.

The big ct is both a blessing and a curse. The blessing is you have better control of where damage goes, arms, or ct. no ST worries.

Allowing you to use XL engines with ease. which improves firepower which can increase your survival as you kill the X thing faster and thus you get less damage. As well as allow you to go faster then normal which normally allows you to out run your enemy or at least go to your team faster for help.



With this in mind, the Catapult is a pretty versitile mech and has heavy firepower due to this, It has extra armour in the arms due to the covers and also gets armour/ structure bonuses to CT and Arms.


This mech lore wise is long range fire support. Famously LRM's which is present on 3 of the 4 standard variants.

The C1 (traditional, 4E, 2M. has 4 medium lasers, 2 LRM 15's stock. if you want a missile boat, keep the weapons stock and just upgrade engine, structure, heatsinks, and ammo, works like a charm)
The A1 (based off the C1, it removes lasers for more utility stuff. it has 6M hardpoint wise which can make interesting LRM mixed SRM or streak builds or pure builds...the 4 popular builds are.... 6 LRM 5, or 6 SRM 6, or 2 LRM 15, 4 SSRM 2)
C4 (based of C1, removes lasers for 2 small lasers CT and has 2 LRM 20's instead, hardpoints is 2E, 4M, better for bigger missile works OR multiple missiles while still having missiles)

The remaining standard variant is the catapult K2, with a PPC in each arm, and a medium laser + MG in each arm. only standard catapult in MW: O with ballistics and energy arms. this is a very good ppc sniper.

The Jeseter hero has 6E hardpoints and 2 AMS and a much higher engine cap, If you use this I suggest take advantage of all and do a 2 large laser, 4 medium laser, 2 ams, and a XL 340+ build. Otherwise there is not much point using it over the K2.



Overall the catapults are a very good support mech but can handle up close as well... able to do 4 x Med las, 2 AC 10 builds for the K2, 6 x SRM 6 catapult A1, 2 large laser, 2 medium laser, and 2 SRM 6 or 2 LRM 10 catapult C1, etc...

The ability to use an XL engine with care-free allows it to be a unique mech in my eye and rivals the clans due to this.


Quirk wise? I do not really care. I would still play this mech if it was quirkless. It's quirks are decent and it's an alright mech for me.

It's the first heavy I got and never regret it.



Some new variants POSSIBLE to be added are...

Catapult C1b (same weapons. but has ferro fiberous armour, DHS, etc)
Catapult C3 (has a pair of arrow artillery missiles... only will be added if PGI adds the weapon...)
Catapult K3 (prototype in 3039's, has ER PPC's and DHS. could mean a ER PPC quirked version of a K2)

Those are possible, all are in timeline but they do not provide anything too new... besides the catapult C3 of course...

This means essentually we'll stick to these 4 catpaults we have + the hero one.

Any questions in particular?

#7 Elizander

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:06 AM

If I don't play carefully I get blown up fast in my Catapults so it's not really recommended for face-staring contests. Having said that, I do get great games with my A1 with 6 SRM6s and the K2 is always nice. Not so fond of the C1/C4 though if you like LRMs they can be okay.

That said I'd probably recommend Thunderbolts over them. I also do better in my Dragons.

With the new rebalance coming up then it's wise not to look at quirks so much since they might not stick around the way they are in the near future.

#8 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:50 AM

View PostSoldier91, on 26 July 2015 - 11:31 PM, said:

Are quirks really that important? I was thinking of just ignoring them mostly unless they had a bonus to ERPPC I was going to try to specialize with those with weapon modules and stuff while I go along they're kinda pricy I'm not made of cbills.
I got advanced zoom a while back when I decided I liked the panther and wanted to master them, since I started on that I don't see myself straying too far from that plan.
Quirks don't seem too great unless you stack relevant modules with it.

some Mechs have brilliant quirks, others do not, for example the Hunchbacks have multiple quirks upto 50% for a specific weapon it seems a waste not to use them.

the Catapults have additional structure and armor for the arms, as well as 20-30% quirks for weapons,
one of your Panthers has 40% PPC velocity another has 40% ERPPC velocity quirks, as well as PPC heat reduction and recharge time(cooldown) quirks , making the PPC or ERPPC projectile 40% faster and therefore more accurate and much easier to use at med to long range as well as making the Mech capable of firing faster without increased heat buildup.

while you are free to build the Mech however you want I think the catapult has good enough quirks to at least be worth considering, also bear in mind the ERPPC generates 50% more heat than the standard PPC, and its only advantages are a better range profile and slightly higher projectile speed so is only worth using if you want to use it point blank or further than 600m out

#9 Nightshade24

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 02:15 AM

View PostRogue Jedi, on 27 July 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

some Mechs have brilliant quirks, others do not, for example the Hunchbacks have multiple quirks upto 50% for a specific weapon it seems a waste not to use them.

the Catapults have additional structure and armor for the arms, as well as 20-30% quirks for weapons,
one of your Panthers has 40% PPC velocity another has 40% ERPPC velocity quirks, as well as PPC heat reduction and recharge time(cooldown) quirks , making the PPC or ERPPC projectile 40% faster and therefore more accurate and much easier to use at med to long range as well as making the Mech capable of firing faster without increased heat buildup.

while you are free to build the Mech however you want I think the catapult has good enough quirks to at least be worth considering, also bear in mind the ERPPC generates 50% more heat than the standard PPC, and its only advantages are a better range profile and slightly higher projectile speed so is only worth using if you want to use it point blank or further than 600m out

theres a difference between fantastic quirks and stupidly broken quirks...

For instance the Hunchback Grid irons 50% gauss quirk (total) is broken into a 25% general ballistic quirk for all other ballistics...

25% is also the total sum of the values for the AC 20 quirk for the 4G and the AC 10 quirk for the 4H....just an eg...

#10 Soldier91

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 09:10 AM

Spoiler

Haha, you I like you.

View PostNightshade24, on 27 July 2015 - 12:47 AM, said:

Any questions in particular?

You really like you're catapults that was a pretty good read. I was eyeing the k2 that AC10 build sounds like it can brawl.
I was playing around with that smurfy mech builder thing it looks like the k2 could fit 2 gauss with a volicity bonus and 4 small lasers with a decent bit of ammo I was thinking the small laser could be good defense up close but I wasn't sure without quirks.

Originally the catapult caught my eye aside from looking awesome because of the A1 being a missile platform I was playing with LRM's in my 8z panther but partially I didn't want to throw cbills at it with limited mech space without at least asking if the A1 is a dice roll to play without a team set up to counter ECM?

View PostElizander, on 27 July 2015 - 01:06 AM, said:

If I don't play carefully I get blown up fast in my Catapults so it's not really recommended for face-staring contests. Having said that, I do get great games with my A1 with 6 SRM6s and the K2 is always nice. Not so fond of the C1/C4 though if you like LRMs they can be okay.

That said I'd probably recommend Thunderbolts over them. I also do better in my Dragons.

With the new rebalance coming up then it's wise not to look at quirks so much since they might not stick around the way they are in the near future.
I've rolled around with the trial thunderbolt champion it seems like a cool mech.
I do like LRM's sometimes I'm laggy or something and I like focusing on movement positioning and like how missiles spread out damage instead of focusing fire for one part.
I am honestly a bit more into mechanic/technician type stuff troubleshooting repairing replacing mechanical and electrical stuff, I am sort of looking forward to quirks going away I seen it mentioned before I'd love to customize a mech like that a bit, whenever I see the inside of the {LT-MOB-25} pit I just wanna tear all that stuff up and see how it works. :D

View PostRogue Jedi, on 27 July 2015 - 01:50 AM, said:

some Mechs have brilliant quirks, others do not, for example the Hunchbacks have multiple quirks upto 50% for a specific weapon it seems a waste not to use them.

the Catapults have additional structure and armor for the arms, as well as 20-30% quirks for weapons,
one of your Panthers has 40% PPC velocity another has 40% ERPPC velocity quirks, as well as PPC heat reduction and recharge time(cooldown) quirks , making the PPC or ERPPC projectile 40% faster and therefore more accurate and much easier to use at med to long range as well as making the Mech capable of firing faster without increased heat buildup.

while you are free to build the Mech however you want I think the catapult has good enough quirks to at least be worth considering, also bear in mind the ERPPC generates 50% more heat than the standard PPC, and its only advantages are a better range profile and slightly higher projectile speed so is only worth using if you want to use it point blank or further than 600m out

Point blank and further out is how I like to use ERPPC's, I don't think regular ppc's have an advantage over the different types of large lasers besides looking really cool when they shoot. The volicity bonus helps a ton for hitting they got buffed recently and I started hitting stuff way more accurately. Well maybe not accurately but I started hitting stuff. -_-

#11 Koniving

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 10:57 AM

I have mixed feelings on the Catapult.

In one case -- I can use this design and sport a whopping 126 armor.. (Less than most STOCK LOCUSTS!) and have it pwn the crap out of a number of enemies.
Samples.
(How to build and ideal battle scenario)

(How it handles close encounters; second match is phenomenal).

(Its public debut.)

(Most recent video before it was retired.)


In another case, I can go full armor and just get slaughtered.
Sample.

(Quote from 2:25 "You can clearly see him miss, and yet he still nails me in the center torso." Repeatedly.)

So I'm on the fence about it.

#12 Josef Koba

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 11:34 AM

I LOVE the Catapult. Well, how it looks, anyway - It's an iconic looking mech. It does seem that it's seen better days, however. Used to be you could run out the Cat and do well in a variety of builds, despite it's limitations. You still can, I suppose. Much like anything. Then they went and made the ears gigantor size. Much controversy ensued. I'm of the opinion that if you can fit one LRM20 inside the box, you can fit three SRM6s. It's silly to me that only one SRM6 fits, and no matter if you put SRM2s or otherwise in after, they all stick outside like some sort of weird VCR.

Anyway, I do still love my Cats. But I'll leave them in their mechbays to spare them the humiliation of being insta-owned.

#13 Vlad Striker

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 11:53 AM

It's problem - you see lasers somewhere deep left or right but damaging CT.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 27 July 2015 - 11:59 AM.


#14 Soldier91

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:10 PM

View PostKoniving, on 27 July 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

snip

Awesome videos! Thanks for sharing.
I really like a lot of stuff about the first one. Did resource collection on alpine get taken out? I haven't seen that one since I restarted my streak commando use to really shine on that map/mode because I was fast enough to cap stuff all over the place and chase off other light mechs with the streaks. My old 'puter was a little too laggy to be effective with lasers I'd be able to sweep them for most of the duration but not really target anything specific. The game seems to run a lot more smoothly now.

.That makes me wonder a little bit, the LRM's actually seem pretty effective tracking when heat shuts it down, is that just because they're going forward/backward instead of strafing in those incidents?
Almost looked like you hit a guy without locking in the last video I could of swore I did that once with a LRM5 lucky shot on a ECM guy who got stuck on some terrain but I couldn't tell if it actually did damage without the lock.

View PostVlad Striker, on 27 July 2015 - 11:53 AM, said:

It's problem - you see lasers somewhere deep left or right but damaging CT.

After seeing the video the thing is massive I can see why it wouldn't get hit in the side torsos with the arms and ct being the size they are.

#15 Amsro

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 12:41 PM

View PostSoldier91, on 26 July 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

I was thinking of selling them off


I would recommend buying a few mech bays and keeping the panthers, at the very least keep one.

Selling mechs can be a bad idea.

#16 Koniving

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 01:30 PM

View PostSoldier91, on 27 July 2015 - 12:10 PM, said:

Awesome videos! Thanks for sharing.
I really like a lot of stuff about the first one. Did resource collection on alpine get taken out?
[snip]The game seems to run a lot more smoothly now.

You're welcome. ^_^ Resource Collection is still on all non-"Faction" (CW / Community Warfare) maps. The mode changer is found here to the left of "Play." Be certain to check "Conquest."
Posted Image

Recording takes up processing power, as does playing the game as MWO is very processor intensive. Actual gameplay will always be smoother. I'm also recording at 30 fps while playing at 59-ish fps.

Quote

That makes me wonder a little bit, the LRM's actually seem pretty effective tracking when heat shuts it down, is that just because they're going forward/backward instead of strafing in those incidents?
Almost looked like you hit a guy without locking in the last video I could of swore I did that once with a LRM5 lucky shot on a ECM guy who got stuck on some terrain but I couldn't tell if it actually did damage without the lock.


Two things.
  • You may notice that even when I shut down, the enemy is VERY close to the center of the screen or at least where my "o" reticule was pointing. Even while shutdown, the game permits lock-ons as the ability to do so is NOT removed. Yay use of flawed game mechanics!
  • Though I'm too damn cheap to buy them, you can get similar results when line of sight is lost even for your allies (where they'd disappear completely) by having Target Decay; a super expensive module that will help keep targets on your sensors for up to 3 seconds after they should have by all rights disappeared.
Hope that helps. :D

(Screenshot is my Founder's Catapult C1).

#17 Nightshade24

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 07:50 PM

View PostSoldier91, on 27 July 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

You really like you're catapults that was a pretty good read. I was eyeing the k2 that AC10 build sounds like it can brawl.
I was playing around with that smurfy mech builder thing it looks like the k2 could fit 2 gauss with a volicity bonus and 4 small lasers with a decent bit of ammo I was thinking the small laser could be good defense up close but I wasn't sure without quirks.

Originally the catapult caught my eye aside from looking awesome because of the A1 being a missile platform I was playing with LRM's in my 8z panther but partially I didn't want to throw cbills at it with limited mech space without at least asking if the A1 is a dice roll to play without a team set up to counter ECM?



Well the thing with the panther being an LRM mech is LRM lights are very rare, hard to play, and hard to do well in. technically speaking only 2 IS light mechs are average/ meh LRM boats, 3 are "trollolololo" (as an very low armour/ weird engine/ etc). and only clan lights can do normal LRM boat like playstyle and be serious...

So the Catapult A1 may be a different experience then a LRM panther but when you get the Catapult C1/ C4 you may decide then...

2 small lasers to 1 medium laser ratio (using this as eg for 1 med to 2 small, 2 med for 4 small, etc ratio)
is... faster fire rate, more damage, more colder, but on the flip side more slots, less range, etc. So your choice.

#18 Nightshade24

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 08:08 PM

View PostKoniving, on 27 July 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

-snip-


Huh... what is your opinion on a mad dog like this? Faster ,more armour, no min range, more ammo, BAP...
MDD-A

I was actually planning to use it but refrained from it thinking it may not be the most practical thing out there...

Edited by Nightshade24, 27 July 2015 - 08:14 PM.


#19 Leone

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 09:31 PM

My opinion is, not enough ammo. You have twelve shots, total. that's one salvo per mech.

Do you really need all that armour to to get twelve volleys off? You have over one an a half tons of armour on your useless little arms. You know what that is? Three more volleys.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 27 July 2015 - 09:33 PM.


#20 Takashi Uchida

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Posted 27 July 2015 - 09:31 PM

The Catapults are up for a rescale aren't they? (No idea when that will occur). I think the ears will most likely be shrunk.





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