22 replies to this topic

[Audacious Aubergine]

So, running a BJ-1(C) with a pair of AC/2 to take advantage of its quirks. I have so far nicknamed it Spudshooter because whenever I shoot at anything, it feels like I'm doing nothing more harmful than throwing potatoes.
At what number do these weapons start doing decent damage? I've seen 4 x AC/2 Jagers and the 6 x AC/2 King Crab, both of which might be good? Or am I wrong in thinking that I should be doing raw damage with these rather than causing long range headaches via screen shake?

[J I N]

Hey,
first thing you have to understand is, that you need to stay in second line for support fire.
Blackjacks tend to die very fast, when they don't run back to cover, but you need to see your target for a long time to cause enought damage. You will see that offering support for a brawling teammate or hitting slow targets at midrange works quite well.
If a light Laserboat gets you... there is no hope, sorry bro.^^

From time to time I play with this JM6-S
It gets hot, if you have to face more than one enemy, but I'm able to face most enemys thanks to the mighty Dakka-effect of chainfire in two groups. Most people will start running, when they realize that the AC hits won't stop, so focus on damaged sidetorsos, arms and legs.
You have to know, where the important weapons of your enemys are. I managed to take out most assaults alone, thanks to disarming them first. (Atlas with one ST gone, is a nice target )
300-500 damage are normal for me and sometimes this will happen:


For such AC2 builds, you need a special playstyle... it's not easy to play like this, if you are used to PPCs or SRM/Laser Brawling. You need to hold your target in sight and so you will be a target for a much longer time. So second line support fire is a thing and sometimes you will engage to take out a sidetorso or leg.
Hope this helps.

[Voivode]

AC/2 is useful on certain mechs. I've found several where AC/2's are fantastic performers. Unfortunately, I haven't found a single medium where this is true. These are the circumstances where the AC/2 is useful.

1) A mech that is light enough to be ignored. My Firestarter H sport two AC/2's and, combined with a pair of JJ's, this allows me to place continuous fire while being ignored in favor of larger, easier targets, or I am firing from unexpected angles (like the top of a structure) that allows me to get many rounds off before being subject to returned fire.

2) The AC/2's work in conjunction with more powerful weapons. On my Jager S I sport 2xAC/5 + 2xAC/2 (it's a take on the stock build). This combination is quite blistering at medium ranges and provides constant damage and screen shake. It is especially effective against assaults and other heavies.

Mediums seem to lack either of those two things. They generally are easy enough/large enough targets that they tend to not be completely ignored like a light blazing with AC/2's will be. They also lack the weight to combine AC/2's with other AC type weapons for that synergy effect.

What you could try is a miniature version of that Jager S build by placing a single AC/2 with a single AC/5. Otherwise, I found success with mine by placing a gauss in it with 4xML.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I did find moderate success with the Phoenix variant Shadowhawk using 3xAC/2 + 1LL

Edited by Voivode, 28 July 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Repasy Cooper]

I think AC2's are great in pairs, for picking off exposed internals. They can pair up well with an lrm boat (some Clan mechs can equip lrms AND a pair of ac2). Some people would argue that a single gauss is more effective, and they are more or less correct about that, but the ac2 does have its merits of being light and long ranged. Great for harassing the enemy's 2nd line as well.

I have seen that Jagermech as well, but as for the King Crab I would suggest that the more common 4x UAC5 is much more effective.

Edited by Repasy, 28 July 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[Shadey99]

The AC2 is best as a suppression weapon... When someone comes out in the open you hammer them and make them think they are about to die from a barrage of AC rounds. Or if the ignore the shots, keep hammering them until they die. They are also fairly good crit seekers since they fire rounds quickly and each round has a crit chance on juicy exposed internals...

I prefer using them in combination with other, cooler, ballistics since they run super hot.

[Voivode]

Shadey99, on 28 July 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

I prefer using them in combination with other, cooler, ballistics since they run super hot.

Totally agree. I find the AC/2 and AC/5 combo to be really nice, especially on a mech quirked for AC/5 cooldown with a level 5 AC/5 cooldown module. My Dragon 5N gets down to business with it's nicely quirked UAC/5 + 2xAC/2.

[ExoForce]

Shadey99, on 28 July 2015 - 07:43 AM, said:

The AC2 is best as a suppression weapon... When someone comes out in the open you hammer them and make them think they are about to die from a barrage of AC rounds. Or if the ignore the shots, keep hammering them until they die. They are also fairly good crit seekers since they fire rounds quickly and each round has a crit chance on juicy exposed internals...

I prefer using them in combination with other, cooler, ballistics since they run super hot.

This work really well in CW pug drops.

[Flagrant]

One of my blackjacks uses 1 ac2. Only need 1 to suppress. 2 is too heavy for the minimal dps gain. The rest is for my 6 MLS and heat sinks.

[jss78]

I like to run a single AC-2 in my CDA-3M, on top of 4xML. At least in lower Elos, one is all you need to make your target lose heart and turn tail, all while you're doing the real work with the MLs. You can also use it to plink for assists from long distances.

A 4xAC-2 JM-6S -- with a chain-fire mouse macro -- is completely glorious. The OP asks about "usefulness" and I'm not sure it really qualifies, but I highly recommend it nonetheless.

I think all AC-2 builds require careful positioning so that you're in the second line and never the first to take return fire, because of the exposure time you need. So they're a bit situational and will probably never be "meta".

[Audacious Aubergine]

Thanks for all the input I'm currently considering bolting a gauss rifle to one side and seeing how that goes. Otherwise I'll try the AC/5 on one side

EDIT: Just gave the gauss rifle build a try, swapped everything else for two tonnes ammo and a single medium pulse laser on the same arm. I'm highly amused that I didn't do too horribly despite being in Frozen (read: Low-Vis) City. Capable team did help, though

Edited by FreebirthToad18999, 28 July 2015 - 10:28 PM.

[Mercworks]

I just can't think of any application of AC/2s that a pair of UAC5s isn't better. Even one UAC5 is better than two AC/2s, although for most practical purposes, there are few designs where you can't substitute double UACs for double AC/2s

[DONTOR]

I find 4 very useful, particularly on the Banshee 3E. Basically fire all game long from 1000 or so meters. Then when the game closes you get to kill everything because constant 8 damage is great for finishing any injured mechs, and blowing off crit sections in general.

Its actually how i got 1700+ damage, requires alot of ammo, a huge XL engine and patience. I use the XL380 also.

[Shadey99]

Mercworks, on 29 July 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I just can't think of any application of AC/2s that a pair of UAC5s isn't better. Even one UAC5 is better than two AC/2s, although for most practical purposes, there are few designs where you can't substitute double UACs for double AC/2s

I hate running just a pair of UAC5s on any mech not tweaked for them. Why? Because they jam. Unlike the AC2s they may inflict more damage at around the same rate, but they don't jam. This can be critically important in a crunch. 3 or 4 UAC5s is usually enough to counter the jam rate, but it's not unheard of for a KC with 4 UAC5s to lose half it's guns or even 3. If those guns are all you have, then losing most of them in a crunch is bad.

[Blue Frog]

A quad AC2 Banshee is a beast. I have faced down a dire wolf with non-stop dakka and killed him because he kept overheating.

[Big Tin Man]

Shadowhawk 2H with 2 AC2 and 1 AC5 is a great cage rattler with the de-synched fire. Poke over a hill, and rock them until you get their attention, hide while your assaults pummel them. Best applied at 500m+ where the clan energy boats are less effective.

[Palor]

I have seen Kingcrabs running 6xAC/2 builds with lethal results.

[Big Tin Man]

Palor, on 29 July 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

I have seen Kingcrabs running 6xAC/2 builds with lethal results.

I was underwhelmed by the hexAC2 kingcrab. It does the 4xuac5 so much better with less heat. If you're a slow target that is going to get focused, you need to bring some pain that hits hard and fast so people don't look at you. Trading a 12 point alpha vs. a dual gauss is a bad idea.

[Thunderchild]

Big Tin Man, on 29 July 2015 - 12:47 PM, said:

I was underwhelmed by the hexAC2 kingcrab. It does the 4xuac5 so much better with less heat. If you're a slow target that is going to get focused, you need to bring some pain that hits hard and fast so people don't look at you. Trading a 12 point alpha vs. a dual gauss is a bad idea.

Until you see a ******* Crab you don't know what you are missing. When paired up it's even worse. I've seen 2 crabs melt two timbers, atlas and direwolf and not by jumping them somehow.

[Voivode]

Mercworks, on 29 July 2015 - 09:49 AM, said:

I just can't think of any application of AC/2s that a pair of UAC5s isn't better. Even one UAC5 is better than two AC/2s, although for most practical purposes, there are few designs where you can't substitute double UACs for double AC/2s

I depends on the available tonnage and crit space, too. The Dragon 5N gets both generic and UAC5 specific ballistic quirks for it's three ballistic slots. But they are all in the same arm. One UAC5 with a pair of UAC2s makes a lethal and highly suppressive combo.

Would I choose two UAC5s over two AC2s in an Atlas? Oh yeah, but there are other mechs/circumstances out there that make the AC2 a good choice either by itself (for pure tonnage purposes) or in combination with other ballistic weapons (crit space, tonnage, or both).

[Escef]

I've gotten decent results out of the BLR-1D with triple AC2. It's better DPS than twin Gauss, but runs a kinda' hot and requires facetime. It's a fun casual build, though.