181 replies to this topic

[Logan Frost]

Bloody hell, this game reaaaaally needs some balance help. This ELO BS Im hearing of certainly isnt stopping me, a brand new player from getting face melted my experienced players in pinpoint alpha builds.

I slogged my way through a few trial mechs, enough to get my first mech, an Jenner JRK. Yay for me!

Nope, first game, five King Crabs on the enemy team. Oh joy, and its a small map to boot. Two giant crab claw shots and no more arm, side or CT. Yay.

Fine, whatever, have some cash, gimme some MC. Purchase an ON-1 PRotector because my all time favorite TT mech is the Orion. First match, keep getting tagged my LRMS from behind cover, anytime I try and shoot back I get one or more of any three Poptarting meds set up along the ridges. It wasnt as if I just such, my entire team went down in about five minutes spare myself and a few others.

Ok, maybe CW has some more honest players in it. Join in with Clan Wolf, go out to do a assault run. Oh, stock trial mechs? Eh, well thats alright. Destroy some turrets and a generator, wait for the signal and flood through. Immediately get domed by some Battlemaster laservomit.

I.
Just.
Want.
Fun.

This aint it. This isnt Mechwarrior.

[Wintersdark]

Unless you're playing at off hours, you're probably not getting your face melted by experienced players. If you ARE playing at off hours, then matches are a lot more random. Rookie players can have really strong builds as well, as there are websites (like metamechs) that specialize in showing people the current meta builds. Mind you, those builds are often not ideal for new players as they sometimes rely on more advanced skillsets, but they're never bad.

Lights are hard to play, and not for most players. People tend to think of a progression of Light > Medium > Heavy > Assault, but that's not how things work. In terms of difficulty, it's (from easiest to hardest) Heavy > Medium > Assault > Light.


With that said, you're always going to have matches where the other team crushes you. It's simply going to happen. That is Mechwarrior - not all military engagements are close fought battles from start to end, and it's impossible to make that happen all the time.

What will help, is playing more in the same weight class. Elo takes some time to get established, (think 50-100 matches in a given weight class, as you have a score for each).

[oldradagast]

If PGI bothered to read the forums, they'd see stories like this. They could also bother to check player retention rates - who downloads the game, plays it a few times, and then never comes back. Instead, they live in the realm of social media to cut down on feedback from customers and dream of releasing a game with a horrid New Player Experience on Steam... I can only assume their business strategy is to piss off as many people as possible all at once since I guess that saves time.

To the OP, the game is reasonably fun once you get the hang of it, though it is still rather shallow.
- Trial mechs are mostly junk.
- Mechs without double heatsinks are totally junk
- Pinpoint damage is what really matters in the game
- There is no real New Player Experience designed in. You get a joke of a tutorial - "Walk, Shoot, Win!" - and then get thrown to the wolves against fully leveled mechs. You're exactly right in saying that such a NPE is horrible and insane.
- CW is a joke. Don't even waste your time with it until you have a drop-deck of fully leveled mechs, and even then it is a tedious mess.

Not much else I can say: the game can be fun, but all of your complaints are also valid.

[Logan Frost]

By all laws of averages my team should be shutting the enemy down just as often as they get it. This isnt the case though. I know my battlemechs, Ive been playing since I was a small child, I can see right off the bat when my team is going to be terrible by numbers, light on the tonnage from the get go is always a nice thing to see before the match starts.

Ive got, jesus, maybe five victories, and survived perhaps three of those? Out of 11-13 matches I believe. Yeah, I suck, but maybe if there something in the way of a newbies area of the multiplayer I could learn a thing or two.

[Euphoric1RW]

Hey man, get with an organized group to play with to learn with, Get on Team Speak. Search here on MWO for TS servers and grouping up, This game has a big learning curve and is tough, but when you get three of the Orions and right now they are on sale until tomorrow, you can get them elited, that is what it takes to get a mech that is worth a darn so don't give up. Go out with an elited mech and give em hell, have fun!!

[50 50]

Hey Logan.

It is a pretty brutal game.
Any new mech chassis you start working will be difficult and frustrating until you get the hang of them and get them skilled up.
The performance increase from getting all the elite level skills in a chassis makes quite a difference and by then you have probably worked out how to use the mech effectively.

For 13 matches, 5 wins and surviving 3 of them isn't too bad.
Think I did much worse last night.
You can just have a bad run of matches.

The solo drops should be easier.
As soon as you group up with others, you will face more difficult and organised opposition but hopefully there will also be a level of protection and guidance within the group.
Community Warfare is another step up again and requires a different mind set and tactics to regular drops.

I would also make the point that what may have been a favourite mech in the TT will not translate into MWO in any relatable way. So while the Orion may be a favourite for nostalgic reasons, you may find that another mech fits that sweet spot in MWO.
That said, persevere with the Orion. Keep swapping the loadouts and weapon groups until you find something that suits you and you enjoy using.
Do a quick weapons test on a hotter map like Caustic Valley in the testing grounds so you can get a bit of a feel for it and how you might need to manage the heat before you jump into battle.

Stick with it and you'll get results but keep in mind that sometimes the team you are on will collapse and the enemy will go through you like a hot curry.

[Logan Frost]

50 50, on 30 July 2015 - 06:37 PM, said:

Hey Logan.

It is a pretty brutal game.
Any new mech chassis you start working will be difficult and frustrating until you get the hang of them and get them skilled up.
The performance increase from getting all the elite level skills in a chassis makes quite a difference and by then you have probably worked out how to use the mech effectively.

For 13 matches, 5 wins and surviving 3 of them isn't too bad.
Think I did much worse last night.
You can just have a bad run of matches.

The solo drops should be easier.
As soon as you group up with others, you will face more difficult and organised opposition but hopefully there will also be a level of protection and guidance within the group.
Community Warfare is another step up again and requires a different mind set and tactics to regular drops.

I would also make the point that what may have been a favourite mech in the TT will not translate into MWO in any relatable way. So while the Orion may be a favourite for nostalgic reasons, you may find that another mech fits that sweet spot in MWO.
That said, persevere with the Orion. Keep swapping the loadouts and weapon groups until you find something that suits you and you enjoy using.
Do a quick weapons test on a hotter map like Caustic Valley in the testing grounds so you can get a bit of a feel for it and how you might need to manage the heat before you jump into battle.

Stick with it and you'll get results but keep in mind that sometimes the team you are on will collapse and the enemy will go through you like a hot curry.

I checked the Ori over repeatedly on hotter maps. Its currently mounting the PPC and two medium lasers, backed by an AC10 with enough ammo to fire freely when I do get a bit too hot or close for the PPC. Even in TT it was not a superb mech, but it was a decent workhorse. The issue now is that its just too easy to unleash 40+points of damage into a dime sized spot on a mechs CT.

[no one]

Logan Frost, on 30 July 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

I checked the Ori over repeatedly on hotter maps. Its currently mounting the PPC and two medium lasers, backed by an AC10 with enough ammo to fire freely when I do get a bit too hot or close for the PPC. Even in TT it was not a superb mech, but it was a decent workhorse. The issue now is that its just too easy to unleash 40+points of damage into a dime sized spot on a mechs CT.

It's frequently many of those 40 point hits at once too. They did double armor, but damage happens a lot faster in MWO than in a system where you can move 900m over open terrain with no risk of taking fire so long as you end up in cover.

Jenner suffers from 'giant CT' and Orion's a mediocre 'Mech, though it brawls well. Anything slower than 70 kph suffers a lot in MWO because of the addition time spent exposed.

MWO has a (terrible) heat system with low dissipation and high capacity, so using something like an AC/10 as your 'low heat' solution doesn't work well. Gauss and u/ac/5 are really the only options for low heat poke damage.

Keep in mind that mastering a 'Mechs skill tree is a fairly tremendous performance boost. More so than it should be, honestly. One of those many new player traps.

Remember that the first half of every MWO match is just attrition warfare to decide which team has the greatest disparity between berserk idiots and wall hugging cowards. Try to move with the team when it's engaged in combat, but know the meaning of 'over extended' and 'tactical retreat'. If someone charges into the red swarm, let them die and then go hide behind one of those LRM atlases that like to hammer blissfully at the overpasses in the back field.

Edited by no one, 30 July 2015 - 07:52 PM.

[JC Daxion]

PPC's and Gauss are hard to use, and for most people, especially new players the advice is not to use more than 3 weapon systems. I personally like to group fire different weapon types together, and rarely alpha, unless i am just clicking all three separate buttons. I never re-map an alpha strike. A single AC10, and PPC on a mech that heavy is a bit lack luster, that is more of the 55-60 ton range set up. Perhaps one of these would work better for ya.


For a bit of a longer range set up, use the dual Large lasers, and then the ac20+SRM4 up close for a bit extra punch.. I tried to keep the minimum amount of changes for price reasons, aka artemis and fiber armor, as to swap you need to gonna have to pay.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...83fb546dddff236

It should brawl fairly well, and use the lasers for the early part of the match..



For full on brawler, you could try something like this. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...40d00caeffa6270

You are going to have to get closer, and have patients, but it should work very well, it has a nice alpha, and good DPS and heat management. The medium pulse are short duration, and will mix great with your ac20 and srm's. the draw back, is the range on this one,, anything over 400m you are not going to do much damage, and SRM's have a max range of 280m


Here is one more longer range build, based around LRM's and ac5's, with a pair of arm lasers for pin-point and up close http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e7c190f7488e6c2

Lrms aren't for everyone, but some like um, especially when learning, and they really do work well as a second line mech, as you can fire over the head of the brawlers, as you wait for openings for your pin-point weapons. Just remember they do no damage under 180m, even if the mech is 180 when you fire and it runs closer, they won't damage, on the flip side, if they are running away, and you fire at 150, and by the time they reach the mech, if it's over 180 they will damage.


the last is a simple 2 weapon build, large pulse in the arms, with an in your face AC20.. simple, but effective
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b37ccdd14d0083b


Now onto the tips...

take your jenner and go spend some time in the training grounds and learn the maps. just spend some time on all but the last 6, as those are the CW maps. Practice circling mechs, and twisting away, then re-targeting. try hitting the same spot, ect.. Play around with some builds if you have the credits to buy some weapons.. I know these builds probably have about 2-3m worth of weapons, but the nice thing is you can swap um to any mech you have.

Most important thing to do is not to spend to much time facing an enemy.. Twist away while your weapons are recharge.. Try to stick with the group, and push when they push too. Hiding in the back doesn't help anyone, and if you find yourself in a spot where you keep getting targeted, move to a new place.. once you know the maps this will become tons easier.

Go to youtube, and search Koniving, he has tons of videos posted and i'll bet some orions, so check um out.

lastly, when you die in a match, be sure to jump around to other people, and watch how they play. You can learn tons from watching.


Sometimes build is everything, i know i hated some mechs till i got it right. So don't be afraid to play around. Perhaps others will post some builds specific to what the love in a protector.. But if i was running one, i'd most likely give all these a try and see which ones i enjoyed the most. Another thing you may want to do is increase your engine size up to a STD325 to get more speed.. especially if you rather brawl. Bigger engines also make you twist quicker, and start/stop quicker.

A big heavy is hard to learn on though, so hang in.. but don't feel bad about loosing, one day i had a loosing streak of 23 in a row.. was a rough day..


One last thing, Hunchbacks are great starter mechs,, you can pick um up for 2.5m on sale now, and the 4H, (ballistics with energy), 4G for an ac-20 or dual 5's is always nice, 4SP, (missile) 4P (energy) But all really need another 2m in upgrades for double heat sinks, and endo steel along with an STD250 for max results. Many people suggest these, or a griffin, wolverine, or shadow hawk as great starter mechs,

Good luck,, Please ask questions, many people are willing to help new players out.. the learning curve is steep, but it really becomes fun once you get it.

Edited by JC Daxion, 30 July 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

Logan Frost, on 30 July 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Ive got, jesus, maybe five victories, and survived perhaps three of those? Out of 11-13 matches I believe. Yeah, I suck, but maybe if there something in the way of a newbies area of the multiplayer I could learn a thing or two.

phew, i got... i think 3 wins, or may be 2 of my last 10 games (and i played relatively well, got a few kills, did a lot of damage etc), i don't even consider it worthy a post in the daily whining thread

it's how all pvp games work, you will inevitably get losing streaks, and 5 winf of 11-13 matches isn't even a losing streak really

[bar10jim]

Logan Frost, on 30 July 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Ive got, jesus, maybe five victories, and survived perhaps three of those? Out of 11-13 matches I believe. Yeah, I suck, but maybe if there something in the way of a newbies area of the multiplayer I could learn a thing or two.

1) Hang in there! You're just getting started
2) Find your stats. Login to this forum, click the <PROFILE> tab next to the Logout tab, then click the <STATS> subtab (right in the center of the page, below the <MEDIA> and the <FORUM> tabs.
3) You say you won 5 out of 11-13 matches. OK, split the difference and say 12 matches. If you had won one more match, ypu would be right at 50% (W/L ratio of 1.00). That's right where it should be. 11 - 13 matches is a very small sample size. Over time, your W/L ratio will gravitate to slightly higer than 1.00, espacially if you play in the solo PUG queue. I once had a losing streak of 18 games. It sucked, but overall I have a W/L ratio of 1.09. Over the log haul, the wins tend to balance out the losses.
4) Roflstomps tend to be fairly common. If players are tentative and playing the peek/shoot/hide game, eventuall one team will have a clear advantage, and the route will be on. Or if one team is afraid to take a little damage and the other team acts agressively, the stomp is on.
5) Mechs play much better once they have completed Elite skills. I can't stress this enough.
6) Don't worry as much about the wins and lossses and have fun! An SHD-2H with 2x AC5s and an AC2 might not be viewed - or be effective - on the competative scene, but it's still a lot of fun to send lottsa dakka dakka downrange!

[bad arcade kitty]

JC Daxion, on 30 July 2015 - 07:47 PM, said:

One last thing, Hunchbacks are great starter mechs,, you can pick um up for 2.5m on sale now, and the 4H, (ballistics with energy), 4G for an ac-20 or dual 5's is always nice, 4SP, (missile) 4P (energy)

4g (ac-20), 4p (many med lasers) and 4j (2*lrm-10, surprisingly probably the most viable, a top tier lrm boat)

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 30 July 2015 - 07:54 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

have you upgraded the Mechs, things like Endo Steel Internals and Double Heat Sinks tend to make a significant difference, and speed is life for a Light Mech, but for the other weight classes as well, up close a Dire Wolf will generally loose to an Atlas or King Crab because the AS7 and KCG can mount larger engines and therefore be faster and more agile despite the fact that the DWF can mount more firepower.

so far everyone has focused on the Orion, but here is some advise for the Jenner
for a JR7 speed is your armor, you want to be going as fast as possible, I would recommend getting an XL engine rated 280, 295 or 300, that will cost 4-5 million cbills ^{(by the time you have done all the upgrades a Light Mech will usualy cost 3-4 times its initial purchase price)} you will also want Double Heat Sinks ^{(1.5 million cbills)} and also Endo Steel Internals and Fero Fibrus Armor to free up as much tonnage as possible, then you will probably want short to medium range weapons, small or medium lasers or pulse lasers as your main armament, and if you can take missiles SRMs to tear up bigger Mechs or Streek SRMs for anti Light Mech work, if mounting SSRMs you will also want a BAP to allow you to lock on in the presence of enemy ECM.

for a beginner in a Light Mech, your job is to harass the enemy, stay out of signt until the battle is joined then stay behind cover as much as possible but above all else keep moving, you hit the enemy from a different direction to the rest of your team so they have to choose between swatting that annoying light or killing those heavy Mechs who are firing at them,

always try to target the enemy (press R), after about 5 seconds this will bring up a "paper doll" damage readout and the weapons load out for the enemy Mech in the top right corner of your HUD, yellow means healthy, red means seriously damaged, the line around the outside of a component is armor, the solid is structure, as a Light try to avoid anything with Streak SRMs or LBX autocannons as they are very good at hurting lights.

you will require patience,
I will usualy scout to try to locate the enemy in the early parts of the game, this is high risk low reward as you could take heavy damage and help win the match but get no rewards for it, the second you are noticed fall back to the rest of the team, as one good hit can cripple or kill a Jenner.
when you find the enemy you need to tell the team, if you have a mike you can just hold down caps lock and say e,g, "8 Mechs in Charley 4 moving towards Echo 5", that means your team knows the enemy have not all grouped up yet and tells them where to go to try to ambush the enemy (somewhere around E5)
if you find a lone heavy or assault especially a missile boat with little close in armament then you will probably be able to take it, you should have the speed to stay behind it and strip the Mech.

never attack anything head on, be sneaky and annoying, that is what your Mech is best at

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 31 July 2015 - 05:51 AM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

nevermind

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 01 August 2015 - 03:11 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Logan Frost, on 30 July 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

Nope, first game, five King Crabs on the enemy team. Oh joy, and its a small map to boot. Two giant crab claw shots and no more arm, side or CT. Yay.

Hah, this is the 'flavour' of the crab. You just don't stand in front of it, or else you will get your face melted very quickly, no matter if you use assault or a light.
It's not an overpowered mech though, not by any means. It's veeery big target, it's like the 1st or 2nd slowest mech in the game (depending on the engine used), it's lack of agility makes it totally vurnelable to being surrounded by faster mechs and killed helplessly.

In fact, if you weren't new and still learning the ropes, it would be that crab to dread engaging you. A jenner's speed advantage is so big you could jump on his back an manouver so he wouldn't even had a chance to hit you once, before dying from getting cored in the back.

Logan Frost, on 30 July 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Ive got, jesus, maybe five victories, and survived perhaps three of those? Out of 11-13 matches I believe. Yeah, I suck, but maybe if there something in the way of a newbies area of the multiplayer I could learn a thing or two.

1. win-loose streaks.
Normal thing in team pvp games. You've got a loose streak, then you got a win streak, then you got win-loose-win-loose streak, rinse and repeat. Laws of probability, nothing else. When I started, few months ago, I had to wait for my 8th game to have my first win! Talk about luck. Still, you're doing better than I did

2. Dying 70% of the time - quite normal. Not bad to be honest. If you look at the mechanics, most often 12 mechs must die for the other side to win. That's half of the players! Plus, if that wasn't a total one-sided stomp of the other side (we don't want those, do we?), some mechs on the winning side should've die too, preferably 6 or more. That's 75% of mechs being destroyed, leaving us with about 25% survivability ratio. The most thrilling games are when the teams are very equal, and the win/loose is not decided until the very end. In such games, usually there is only 1-2 players left standing at the end, giving us about 90% death ratio at the most interesting games!

TL;DR - loosing is normal, dying is normal. It's just pvp thing. Remember that for you to win, somebody else had to loose, for you to score a kill, somebody else had to get his mech destroyed. It's not single player, global kill to death ratio is always 1, global win to loose ratio is also always 1.
----

One thing I must agree - the 'NPE' is fun only for the patient people and masochists. Mechs should have some kind of difficulty info next to them, so that newbies won't buy 'hard-mode' ones as their first mechs. That's a frustration that could be easily avioded. I started with the commando, I know what I'm saying

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 31 July 2015 - 03:34 AM.

[Nayonac]

Get a Stormcrow... that's about all you need to know really, stand back and watch the innersphere crumble before you!
Pound for pound the best hunk of metal of the battlefield.

Although i must say i have way more fun in a Centurion but fun vs winning

[Ildar Jotun]

Nayonac, on 31 July 2015 - 03:58 AM, said:

Get a Stormcrow... that's about all you need to know really, stand back and watch the innersphere crumble before you!
Pound for pound the best hunk of metal of the battlefield.

Although i must say i have way more fun in a Centurion but fun vs winning

Eeeehmmm.... No.

I started playing last monday, 4 days ago. I did just that: got me 11.6 million for a Stormcrow, and realized I still suck as bad (or even worse, I may say) as with the trial Griffin. There are no magical mechs in this game, if you make a bad move you will die, if you understand the rules and your mech, and how it's meant to be used, you MAY survive.

I would say that you test all the weight classes, use various mechs, see which one you are more comfortable with and you're having the most fun, and stick with it.

[Nayonac]

Ildar Jotun, on 31 July 2015 - 04:08 AM, said:

Eeeehmmm.... No.

I started playing last monday, 4 days ago. I did just that: got me 11.6 million for a Stormcrow, and realized I still suck as bad (or even worse, I may say) as with the trial Griffin. There are no magical mechs in this game, if you make a bad move you will die, if you understand the rules and your mech, and how it's meant to be used, you MAY survive.

I would say that you test all the weight classes, use various mechs, see which one you are more comfortable with and you're having the most fun, and stick with it.

But once you understand how to play, you will own a Mech that really can do wonders...
So i stand by my comment to get a Stormcrow.

Stay with the pack, use your team mates and don't brawl unless you have to, use your speed to keep out of the line of fire.

[General Solo]

The thing about win/loss is that it depends on the other 11 pilots on your team.
This isn't the type of game where mere mortals can win a game single handedly.

Therefore to save my sanity I don't look at wins and losses much, but rather focus on my own performance.

If we win good.
If we lost but I played well that's OK too, its some consolation.

Unmet expectations leads to disappointment and unhappiness.

I expect to lose about half the time.

And am yet to be disappointed.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 31 July 2015 - 05:53 AM.

[PFC Carsten]

Logan Frost, on 30 July 2015 - 06:06 PM, said:

Ive got, jesus, maybe five victories, and survived perhaps three of those? Out of 11-13 matches I believe. Yeah, I suck, but maybe if there something in the way of a newbies area of the multiplayer I could learn a thing or two.

*working as intended*
My win/loss let alone kill/death ration was way worse when I started the game. win/loss still is weird sometimes, as if the matchmaker throws people from totally different elo levels into one match, think that an elo12 player can make up for three elo4 players (making up numbers here) resulting in a 12-0 victory followed by a 2-12 loss yesterday for example. And I did not change mechs (WCR-6K) inbetween nor was it another map (Canyon Network).

But kill rate and damage output should improve over time for you as they did for me. My mistake though was, to start out with lights and lights to boot that are not in any way meta, but I used an Anansi Spider rather extensively for a month or so, not realizing that ER-LL is not the most efficient weapons on a light without quirks, giving me way less XP and C-Bills than I could've earned.

My advice: Get Radar Deprivatio Module as soon as you can, because in general it allows you to stay alive much longer, thus doing more damage, thus earning more money. If you've found your favourite weight class and maybe a chassis you consistently get good numbers with and have a bit of fun, consider going for a hero model, since that rakes in the profits allowing you to try out much of the other stuff.

Going from where I am today, I'd try a Blackjack Arrow with lasers, which is a good blend of speed, armor, firepower and manveurability while being able to rake in large amounts of c-bills, especiall during events that give you free premium time. Your mileage may vary though.