111 replies to this topic

[Aiden Skye]

Maybe it's just me as I've never really got far into the laser vomit meta play. Or because I pilot novas instead of stormcrows, but I really like the shadowcat. My favorite poker / harasser by a long shot. My main shadow cat is at a 5-1 kdr after 50 matches played in it...not seeing how this mech is useless Maybe people are trying to force it into a role it's not meant for?

Edited by W A R K H A N, 01 August 2015 - 04:43 AM.

[spectralthundr]

Because they can't run laser vomit meta builds on it and it doesn't have the armor of an assault. Personally I love the thing. Fun as hell mech.

[JohnnyWayne]

Why? Because it IS ******* useless.

I see it as a joke, I refuse to further level that mech.

It has bad Hardpoints (way too little) and if you mount bigger weapons (because it lacks hardpoints to take more small ones) it lacks the necessary free pod space. Furthermore the MASC on it is wasted tonnage - it does NOTHING at all.

Edited by JohnnyWayne, 31 July 2015 - 05:13 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

5-1 KDR by pugging? If so, that's pretty impressive. What are your builds?

People are calling it useless because it's not a Tier 1 mech. Even the Warhawk was considered useless for about a year, untill people finally realized the "Peacedove" was ripping people new orifices.

[Lexx]

Because the Shadowcat has locked components that prevent it from carrying more than 16ish tons of weaponry and it doesn't do laser vomit well.

The "meta" crowd in MWO only like mechs that can mount ridiculous amounts of firepower and have hitboxes that let them face tank any enemy and win in a 1v1 fight. Anything else is considered to be garbage and they whine hoping PGI makes it "better". They consider themselves the "competitive" crowd, and the best MWO players because they can muderball and concentrate enormous firepower and beat most other players. They can't accept any mech that doesn't fit well into their singular minded playstyle and they don't adapt to other playstyles well.

That's why the Shadowcat, Gargoyle, Executioner, Summonor, ect. are all considered bad mechs to them and in need of "adjustments" when other players can do rather well in them.

I'm glad PGI doesn't listen to them, for the most part, or MWO would become boring with every mech mounting enormous firepower and having godly hitboxes.

Edited by Lexx, 31 July 2015 - 05:16 PM.

[Aiden Skye]

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

5-1 KDR by pugging? If so, that's pretty impressive. What are your builds?

People are calling it useless because it's not a Tier 1 mech. Even the Warhawk was considered useless for about a year, untill people finally realized the "Peacedove" was ripping people new orifices.

2 LPL on my main
2 PPC on my B...had a harder time leveling this one as it's extremely hot without the x2
2 ERLL narc + tag...throw back to the hold days of running spotter ravens. Might be fun if ECM is ever dealt with.
2ML + 3SRM6art

[Andi Nagasia]

dont have one, want one but dont have one yet, ,
would love for it to have 2 Energy arms, but thats not a Lore Variant,
and since Omnis have no Hard Point inflation its unlikely we will see this,
(4MPL 1ER-PPC would be awesome)(But Unlikely)

[Tristan Winter]

W A R K H A N, on 31 July 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

2 LPL on my main
2 PPC on my B...had a harder time leveling this one as it's extremely hot without the x2
2 ERLL narc + tag...throw back to the hold days of running spotter ravens. Might be fun if ECM is ever dealt with.
2ML + 3SRM6art

That is impressive. I'll have to look for you on the battlefield.

And it's only from pugging?

[Mcgral18]

Because it's a mediocre robot, and MASC is mainly wasted tonnage.


Buff it, or rip it out. I'd rather mount a Gauss rifle.

[El Bandito]

W A R K H A N, on 31 July 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me as I've never really got far into the laser vomit meta play. Or because I pilot novas instead of stormcrows, but I really like the shadowcat. My favorite poker / harasser by a long shot. My main shadow cat is at a 5-1 kdr after 50 matches played in it...not seeing how this mech is useless Maybe people are trying to force it into a role it's not meant for?

Once a Scat pilot jumped in front of my 6R and dueled with me. I blasted the thing apart in mere seconds with my over-quirked AC5s. Scat is not meant for brawling. Like the Cicada or the BJ, it is meant for hit-n-run. And many people do not have the required patience for such style of fighting.

Edited by El Bandito, 31 July 2015 - 05:26 PM.

[TELEFORCE]

I'm just wondering. Do those who like the Shadow Cat also enjoy the Summoner? I really enjoy both. What they both have in common is that the hard points force you to do more with less, plus they both have the advantage of better maneuverability than 'mechs in the same weight class. That comes at a cost of pod space, yet the Shadow Cat has more stock pod space than a Nova (though the Nova isn't as optimized as the Shadow Cat).

[Deathlike]

W A R K H A N, on 31 July 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Maybe it's just me as I've never really got far into the laser vomit meta play. Or because I pilot novas instead of stormcrows, but I really like the shadowcat. My favorite poker / harasser by a long shot. My main shadow cat is at a 5-1 kdr after 50 matches played in it...not seeing how this mech is useless Maybe people are trying to force it into a role it's not meant for?

It's not even about laser vomit... it's the lack of diversity in builds through the lack of hardpoints.

For instance, a Summoner is very limited having very limited hardpoints. It's difficult to double down on dakka when there's only really one "optimal" build and a lot of mediocre builds that other mechs can do better.

It's hard to do much otherwise.

Laservomit is meta, but the thing is that the "best" solution for tonnage limited builds is to go lasers, so it's not like you have "better alternatives".

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 05:09 PM, said:

5-1 KDR by pugging? If so, that's pretty impressive. What are your builds?

People are calling it useless because it's not a Tier 1 mech. Even the Warhawk was considered useless for about a year, untill people finally realized the "Peacedove" was ripping people new orifices.

The Warhawk is serviceable, but it does actually need quirks due to "Dire Wolf sized geometry" and design restrictions (omnimech rules). It's not at the top of the mechs in my Assault list (I'd rather run a Gargoyle).

W A R K H A N, on 31 July 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

2 LPL on my main
2 PPC on my B...had a harder time leveling this one as it's extremely hot without the x2
2 ERLL narc + tag...throw back to the hold days of running spotter ravens. Might be fun if ECM is ever dealt with.
2ML + 3SRM6art

First option is kinda meh.

Second option will get you killed when challenged by Lights.

Third option... I'm not even going to respond to.

2 ML is too hot... 2 SPL is much more sustainable when forced to brawl.

TELEFORCE, on 31 July 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

I'm just wondering. Do those who like the Shadow Cat also enjoy the Summoner? I really enjoy both. What they both have in common is that the hard points force you to do more with less, plus they both have the advantage of better maneuverability than 'mechs in the same weight class. That comes at a cost of pod space, yet the Shadow Cat has more stock pod space than a Nova (though the Nova isn't as optimized as the Shadow Cat).

I actually like the Summoner, but you are totally omitting that the Nova has 15 14 DHS hardlocked by design. The Scat has 10 DHS through the engine. Same tonnage, but one actually can cool itself far more reliably.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 July 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Jman5]

I've noticed a lot of people playing it like you would a much bigger mech. Making aggressive moves that work for a heavy or assault, but are suicidal in something 45 tons. I don't think it's any surprise when 2/3 of the community mostly play 65+ ton mechs that they aren't quite prepared to adjust to being a little fish.

[TELEFORCE]

Deathlike, on 31 July 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

I actually like the Summoner, but you are totally omitting that the Nova has 15 DHS hardlocked by design. The Scat has 10 DHS through the engine. Same tonnage, but one actually can cool itself far more reliably.

Totally true. That makes a huge difference.

[Aiden Skye]

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

That is impressive. I'll have to look for you on the battlefield.

And it's only from pugging?

Yes all pugging. If you see me I musta screwed up!

Deathlike, on 31 July 2015 - 05:31 PM, said:

First option is kinda meh.

Second option will get you killed when challenged by Lights.

Third option... I'm not even going to respond to.

2 ML is too hot... 2 SPL is much more sustainable when forced to brawl.

Unless you're running streaks or SRM's most meta lights are bad news for a shadowcat. Really bad to get caught out of position.

3rd build is actually pretty fun in CW. Not so much in pugs.

I will agree with you that it could use some more hardpoints. Particularly I would like to see more interesting alternatives to the ECM omnipod so that it's always not a default choice.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 31 July 2015 - 05:39 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

El Bandito, on 31 July 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

Once a Scat pilot jumped in front of my 6R and dueled with me. I blasted the thing apart in mere seconds with my over-quirked AC5s. Scat is not meant for brawling. Like the Cicada or the BJ, it is meant for hit-n-run. And many people do not have the required patience for such style of fighting.

Meant for hit and run, and yet it's barely faster than heavy mechs, let alone other medium mechs.

"+10 kph HYPERSPEED ENGAGE!!! HOLD ON, THIS IS GOING TO - never mind, it's over."

[Deathlike]

Jman5, on 31 July 2015 - 05:33 PM, said:

I've noticed a lot of people playing it like you would a much bigger mech. Making aggressive moves that work for a heavy or assault, but are suicidal in something 45 tons. I don't think it's any surprise when 2/3 of the community mostly play 65+ ton mechs that they aren't quite prepared to adjust to being a little fish.

While that may be true, but I understand how this mech functions.. and it's operates more of a support mech.

Something like a Stormcrow would not really have this kind of problem "leading the charge" (not that it should, but it can take a few hits) whereas this mech truly needs to hide behind the big boys (or at least a bit more sneaky) to be effective. It's kind of thing where mechs like the Vindicator get labeled... it's because it's not "tanky".

When a mech is dependent on hiding amongst the fray AND tied behind a limited build/firepower stance, it struggles to be effective reliably.

You can't have every mech be an LRM mech and expect the direct fire guys to just hang back (which is a terrible error on the direct fire front if that even happens) and expect victory. It never works that way.

Edited by Deathlike, 31 July 2015 - 05:47 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Tristan Winter, on 31 July 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:

Meant for hit and run, and yet it's barely faster than heavy mechs, let alone other medium mechs.

"+10 kph HYPERSPEED ENGAGE!!! HOLD ON, THIS IS GOING TO - never mind, it's over."

• Runs 106.7 kph after Tweak
  
• Barely faster than heavy 'Mechs

I don't know what game you are playing, but it's not MWO. 106.7 kph is pretty close to the top-end for Mediums. Granted, the MASC boost is less than impressive, but most Mediums tend to top out at 98 kph after Tweak. Blackjacks can't even get past 93, with one exception.

[Tristan Winter]

Yeonne Greene, on 31 July 2015 - 05:41 PM, said:

• Runs 106.7 kph after Tweak
  
• Barely faster than heavy 'Mechs

I don't know what game you are playing, but it's not MWO. 106.7 kph is pretty close to the top-end for Mediums. Granted, the MASC boost is less than impressive, but most Mediums tend to top out at 98 kph after Tweak. Blackjacks can't even get past 93, with one exception.

I'm playing the game where Cicadas roam the plains at 150 kph, Ice Ferrets trot at a comfortable 142 kph and the Stormcrow, the heaviest and most feared medium mech in the game, has the same base speed as this 45-ton "hit and run" S-Cat. A few seconds of Diet MASC doesn't help that much when Stormcrows can match your speed.

Yes, the MASC boost is less than impressive. Enough said.

[Deathlike]

Let me put it in different terms.

A Maddog has potential firepower, but it suffers from durability and low mounted hardpoints (minus the missiles).

A Summoner has great durability, but it suffers from limited hardpoints.

The Shadowcat suffers from a little of both issues, and one would kinda expect it to have enough "speed" to compensate for that through MASC. It doesn't really feel like it currently.

The Shadowcat suffers from not being "adequate" for all parts of the power triangle - firepower, durability, speed. While we can't always ask for mechs like the Stormcrow or Timberwolf, but we have to make sure that it doesn't suffer greatly in all aspects (hello Spider-5V) to the point of irrelevance.

I think it's fixable, but right now, the Shadowcat is labeled a "support mech" due to more than one aspect that's "not adequate enough" (and it doesn't mean it's not/cannot be meta-comforming) it's that it's sub-par/deficient that it requires extra work to make it effective.