Jump to content

The Ppc Velocity Increase

Weapons Balance

34 replies to this topic

#1 MrPrezident

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 29 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 04:06 AM

Greetings Fellow Mechwarriors,

It's come to my attention that recently, PPCs got a pretty big velocity buff, And I must say I've been enjoying it quite a bit!

The video below contains the almighty AWS-8Q PPC king or as I like to call him, Quad Damage. (Yes I have Mastery with this mech)




PPC velocity increased to 1100, up from 950
ER-PPC velocity increased to 1200, up from 1050
Clan ER-PPC velocity increased to 1200, up from 1050

What do you guys think of the velocity buff? Was it necessary to increase the velocity of this weapon? Do you feel PPCs are more viable now as a result? Are PPCs too strong now as a result of this?

I'd love to hear your opinions!

~ Prez

#2 Paigan

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blazing
  • The Blazing
  • 2,789 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 04:08 AM

Posted Image

#3 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:02 AM

Still not big fan of the PPC family. However, if I must have some on my mech, I always prefer to use CERPPCs.

#4 Elizander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,540 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:14 AM

It's working fine on my 7 JJ 2x PPC poptart Griffin.

#5 Nightshade24

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 3,972 posts
  • LocationSolaris VII

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:17 AM

I'm a fan of the PPC, but ER PPC's seem a bit.. iffy, still.
PPC has the nice reduced heat from the ER PPC and still does the same kick while still hitting people within the norm combat range

View PostEl Bandito, on 01 August 2015 - 05:02 AM, said:

Still not big fan of the PPC family. However, if I must have some on my mech, I always prefer to use CERPPCs.


Any particular reason for the Clan ER PPC to be your preference? Honest question.
Find it a bit odd that one out of the three is your choice. Given the useless splash and fact that for the clans the Large pulse laser kind of replaces it as well as a lack of any er ppc quirks on most clanners O_o... unless it's for your Wolverine IIC...

#6 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:27 AM

View PostNightshade24, on 01 August 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

Any particular reason for the Clan ER PPC to be your preference? Honest question.
Find it a bit odd that one out of the three is your choice. Given the useless splash and fact that for the clans the Large pulse laser kind of replaces it as well as a lack of any er ppc quirks on most clanners O_o... unless it's for your Wolverine IIC...


Regular PPC is useless up close, and IS ERPPC is flat out inferior to the CERPPC. CERPPCs performed very well on my Timbie with the config-A LT. Managed to kill a bunch of IS Lights with it.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 August 2015 - 05:28 AM.


#7 Nightshade24

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 3,972 posts
  • LocationSolaris VII

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:39 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 01 August 2015 - 05:27 AM, said:


Regular PPC is useless up close, and IS ERPPC is flat out inferior to the CERPPC. CERPPCs performed very well on my Timbie with the config-A LT. Managed to kill a bunch of IS Lights with it.


Well the PPC has a min range of 90, that is true... which is actually very close. you can actually achieve the same DPS by ramming the enemy at that point and blind them with your size haha...

That aside, it outside of 90 meters, it is actually better up close then ER ppc's...


now to the ER PPC to Clan ER PPC... well yea, there's a bit of a thing in power over there... but excluding power shifts with quriks, compaired to alternatives of the same weight class (for ER PPC, it being gauss, ER large laser, and thats it...) the Clans got the Clan gauss, clan large pulse, and clan er large lasers... which is much more closer to the Clan ER PPC then the IS ER PPC to its alternatives... Granted- this is over the inflation of damage across a few lasers for both factions... would be better if they tone them down a bit.

#8 SgtMagor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 3,542 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:44 AM

prefer erppc, it really is troubling when you get within brawling range with another mech and cannot fire your ppc because it will not do any damage, and wind up getting machine gunned to death while some ankle biter is laughing maniacally at you with your unusable weapon.

#9 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 05:48 AM

View PostMrPrezident, on 01 August 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

What do you guys think of the velocity buff? Was it necessary to increase the velocity of this weapon? Do you feel PPCs are more viable now as a result? Are PPCs too strong now as a result of this?


The velocity buff was good for mechs like your Awesome that also have Velocity quirks (and/or other PPC quirks) - making PPCs more than just an optimal choice based on quirks and actually a very strong option in general.

They aren't really enough to justify using PPCs on many other non-quirked mechs still - not because they are outright bad, but simply because other options are still stronger (i.e. lower risk, similar/higher rewards)




For reference

AWS-8Q (PPC Quirks)
PPC HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 % (total -25%)
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -12.50 %
PPC RANGE: 12.50 % (total +25%)
ENERGY RANGE: 12.50 %
PPC VELOCITY: 25.00 %
PPC COOLDOWN: 12.50 % (total +25%)
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 12.50 %

Edited by Ultimatum X, 01 August 2015 - 06:46 AM.


#10 Cyborne Elemental

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,944 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 01 August 2015 - 06:03 AM

The velocity, while helpful does make PPC's somewhat useful again is still hard to justify its use and isn't as appealing as a 27 alpha with 3LL or 26 with 2xC-LPL.

With laser hitreg working, and the ability to do 60+ alpha with clan lasers, or 58+ with IS lasers (27 ERLL or 33 with LPL) is nothing next to 20 damage a pop for what is still a very hot weapon.

PPC range is a pretty sad, and 2xERPPC are too hot and still almost completely inaccessible for the IS mechs to bother with when clan LPL can punch just as hard at their effective ranges for half that heat.

Quirks for the majority of laser mechs on both Clan & IS have made PPC's difficult to use.

Timby vomit.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5054966bf20287e
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...499038f90f4c0b8

Banshee vomit.
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...57845f6bca6a440
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...123f89c55f2352f

#11 LORD ORION

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Heavy Lifter
  • Heavy Lifter
  • 1,070 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 06:12 AM

Still not as good as using a Gauss with a little bit of experience and basic skill.

eg:
-Charge it as you pop around a corner, release a vastly faster projectile, and then torso twist to minimize damage.
-Nearing heat limit from shooting Lazors? No problem, you can keep shooting your Gauss while you cool down.

Hard to compete with that choice.

#12 Matthew Ace

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Urban Commando
  • Urban Commando
  • 891 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationSingapore

Posted 01 August 2015 - 06:34 AM

IMO, it still needs stuff to make them truly worthwhile to use.

- Notice that it's more susceptible to appear to phase through targets as compared to Gauss / Autocannons, even at point-blank, but appearing to have a love affair with terrain hitboxes / geometry; Needs bigger projectile hitboxes with respect to hitting mechs.

Beyond that, and up for debate:

- Regular IS PPC needs minimum range returned to damage dropoff instead of a hard cap. Anti-ECM property probably optional, but would be nice.

- IS ER PPC and maybe Clan ER PPC needs slightly lower heat. I'm talking no more than a reduction by 1.5 points of heat (IS PPC acceptable, but slight heat reduction would be... cool (YEEEAAAAAAAA) - reducing heat by 1 point would more than suffice); Alternatively, either Clan ER PPC gets more damage diverted to direct, or all PPC-type weapons can be made to hit harder directly but longer cooldown.

- Right now, Heat Scale Penalty (A.K.A Ghost Heat) for any combination of PPCs, as long as ER PPC is used and triggered the penalty, is 15 (if just using IS PPC, 7). Heat Scale Penalty for IS PPC / IS ER PPC / Clan ER PPC normalised to PPC's 7.

While counterproductive to the desire to increase TTK, it would allow, for Inner Sphere players, a more streamlined blending of PPC / ER PPC, while the Clanners gets to blast 4 cER PPC, especially with Warhawk (Masakari) at once from 0% just a few % shy of shutdown.

(Of course, taking all of these at once may swing things too much, so one thing at a time!)

Edited by Matthew Ace, 01 August 2015 - 06:35 AM.


#13 Elizander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,540 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 01 August 2015 - 06:50 AM

Well I do agree that the minimum range on IS PPC is a bit extreme. I wouldn't mind if it was brought down to a flat 5 damage under 90m.

As I've stated before I would like PPC Velocity quirks be removed in place of the following:

1) IS PPC Quirk - PPC minimum range is removed (or deals a set amount of damage under 90m say 5-8 damage)
2) IS ER PPC Quirk - Deals an extra 2.5 splash damage to random location adjacent to hit.
3) Clan ER PPC Quirk - Deals an extra 2.5 splash damage to random location adjacent to hit. Roll is separate from the built-in 5 splash damage.

The extra splash can sorta somewhat make up for the heat and I think something like this is better than 20-40% velocity quirks.

#14 Cyborne Elemental

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,944 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 01 August 2015 - 06:55 AM

I'd still like to see a ramp up damage from 0-90 meters instead of the magical 89 no damage 90 full damage mechanic. (similar to what they've build into the clan LRM)

Lorewise that 90 meter cutoff was to prevent fratricide from its splash, just like they do with our modern day grenade launchers that won't explode until they've spun itself to arm after a certain distance, but then why not keep it for ERPPC, its an oddity.

Edited by Mister D, 01 August 2015 - 06:56 AM.


#15 nitra

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • 1,655 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 07:37 AM

i always find ppcs hit or miss. sometimes they hit and and actually damage what they are hitting .

other times they seem to spread their damage all over the place and barely scratch the target .

one match i put almost 200 pts off damage into a king crab, did not even strip the armor off a section .

another match i was above a ebon jag. and hammering it damage just spreading like butter all over the mech .

then one match there was a artic cheetah standing on a building staring right at me . so i unloaded on him and near about cored him.

what i have found is as long as the enemy is directly in front of you. and not moving to left or right ppcs work just fine.

as soon as your shooting a moving target the damge just goes all over the place.

makes ppcs very inefffective at times,

#16 Hit the Deck

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,677 posts
  • LocationIndonesia

Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:07 AM

I always liked the cERPPC before the patch but this just makes it juicier! And I can hit things with PPC now, it's now pretty good on non CW maps.

#17 MauttyKoray

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:17 AM

View PostMrPrezident, on 01 August 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

PPC velocity increased to 1100, up from 950
ER-PPC velocity increased to 1200, up from 1050
Clan ER-PPC velocity increased to 1200, up from 1050

What do you guys think of the velocity buff? Was it necessary to increase the velocity of this weapon? Do you feel PPCs are more viable now as a result? Are PPCs too strong now as a result of this?

I'd love to hear your opinions!

~ Prez

I think the buff was roughly 50-100m/s too much. Its nice that they did get a little extra bit of speed as the old velocity was sitting in a dead zone and the one before that was a joke, but now its practically insta-hit and the Gauss/PPC boats have returned. Hooray for imbalance!

#18 Cyborne Elemental

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,944 posts
  • LocationUSA

Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:21 AM

Old velocity was 1600 right?

#19 Lightfoot

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 6,610 posts
  • LocationOlympus Mons

Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:28 AM

PPCs need to be in the 1300-1400 mps range, ERPPCs 1400-1500 mps. Then they would compete with Lasers instead of requiring you to be within 400 meters to hit moving targets where Lasers out-DPS them and run cooler.

The AWS-8Q doesn't really count for this discussion due to it's PPC quirks. The quirks are fine, it's just not representative of PPC balance.



Edited by Lightfoot, 01 August 2015 - 08:32 AM.


#20 MauttyKoray

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,831 posts

Posted 01 August 2015 - 08:47 AM

View PostLightfoot, on 01 August 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

PPCs need to be in the 1300-1400 mps range, ERPPCs 1400-1500 mps. Then they would compete with Lasers instead of requiring you to be within 400 meters to hit moving targets where Lasers out-DPS them and run cooler.

The AWS-8Q doesn't really count for this discussion due to it's PPC quirks. The quirks are fine, it's just not representative of PPC balance.




Even at the original, super slow nerf, I was hitting all but lights at 700-800m. The first buff made it ridiculously easy, and with this buff the PPC/Gauss boats which were a problem before are back.

It was insanely easy hitting targets at the original nerf once you get used to it. Far easier than dealing with travel time AND bullet drop from a sniper rifle in other games. Heck, throw wind speed and direction in there and MWO's PPC travel time was for children in comparison.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 01 August 2015 - 08:48 AM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users