131 replies to this topic

[Votanin FleshRender]

I've had my brother and several good RL friends, old TT guys all, with money to burn and willing.

After duoing with all of them in the group Q for a week or so each, none of them will spend a dime, or more time, on this game

[Johnny Z]

I totally agree 2 man groups should be allowed in the regular queue. But then the group queue suffers.

The idea of a working elo(seperating noobies from vets) and merging both the queues and a system to avoid synch dropping installed sounds good to me but who knows. This along with repair and rearm to combat disconnects and it sounds like it should work out fine.

Synch dropping and disconnects are the two biggest problems with fair fun matches to me, but then maybe I dont know anything.

Edited by Johnny Z, 01 August 2015 - 10:03 PM.

[Sarlic]

Sounds familar. Back then i have invited couple of other friends to the game as well. They quit like after a week (some before the cadet bonus) because it was a pain to play. Repetitive, get rolled, shoot laser on mech and get frustated how to play.

This game will get murdered when launched on Steam. With the same new player experience.

[Johnny Z]

Sarlic, on 01 August 2015 - 10:09 PM, said:

Sounds familar. Back then i have invited couple of other friends to the game as well. They quit like after a week (some before the cadet bonus) because it was a pain to play. Repetitive, get rolled, shoot laser on mech and get frustated how to play.

This game will get murdered when launched on Steam. With the same new player experience.

Im not sure if I agree with the last part, but Steam deserves better, your right, so do players.

[Sarlic]

Johnny Z, on 01 August 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

Im not sure if I agree with the last part, but Steam deserves better, your right, so do players.

I think it will. Judging on our current going events. Steam reviews are a pain. Just look what happened to Batman. All well deserved reviews because the game was in such a poor state.

I think people are going to complain. You should know that our current Community have swallowed alot of 'baddy' things from PGI. We can handle it untill boiling point. You should see this from a New Player perspective.

Which unfortunately comes to the point that experience is extremely poor to begin with due the hard learning curve.

Edited by Sarlic, 01 August 2015 - 10:20 PM.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 01 August 2015 - 07:17 PM, said:

It doesn't really work when a new player needs money to properly upgrade the mech. Trying out their first new mech with SHS is asking for torture and trouble.

It's for practicing the basics against a live opponent. People always complain about being fed to the sharks when there is a way to avoid that. Yes, it will cost money. But, that is the cost of avoiding said sharks.

Votanin FleshRender, on 01 August 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

I've had my brother and several good RL friends, old TT guys all, with money to burn and willing.

After duoing with all of them in the group Q for a week or so each, none of them will spend a dime, or more time, on this game

If they had money to willingly burn as you say, what stopped them from creating private matches?

Johnny Z, on 01 August 2015 - 10:02 PM, said:

I totally agree 2 man groups should be allowed in the regular queue. But then the group queue suffers.

The idea of a working elo(seperating noobies from vets) and merging both the queues and a system to avoid synch dropping installed sounds good to me but who knows. This along with repair and rearm to combat disconnects and it sounds like it should work out fine.

Synch dropping and disconnects are the two biggest problems with fair fun matches to me, but then maybe I dont know anything.

How dare you attempt to invoke that whose name cannot be mentioned?

[Kodyn]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

It's for practicing the basics against a live opponent. People always complain about being fed to the sharks when there is a way to avoid that. Yes, it will cost money. But, that is the cost of avoiding said sharks.

The point however, is that players shouldn't have to have premium time, make a private match, and go through personally training any friends they want to get into the game... If the new player experience is that poor, that's an issue with the game itself, and is only going to hurt PGI when the game goes to Steam and it's not just the forum warriors complaining.

Yes, we all ***** and moan a lot, yes, we do it about every little thing, but a good 75% or more of what gets complained about will be a much bigger issue with any new players looking into the game. This stuff matters if a game is going to make money and have a long, healthy future. And most importantly, it's the dev's responsibility to make their game playable and approachable to new players, NOT other players...that's just an extreme lack of foresight and common sense.

[Appogee]

It's really a case of "choose which form of abuse I prefer to experience"

• In the Solo Queue, I usually get plonked with quite a few noobs, who I and a couple of other experienced players are supposed to carry in the name of "average Elo". Sometimes I win PUGlotto and the team will triumph, but most commonly matche end in teeth-grindling defeats with four or more players having done less than 100 damage.
  
• In the Group Queue, my team of 4 to 6 will often come up against groups of very high Elo players in meta Mechs who spend their days clubbing seals together. My team and I simply aren't as good as these guys, and depending on the quality of the other small groups we drop with, we usually lose in the range of 12-2. We can stretch that out to 12-6 if we all go meta. I don't understand why these high-Elo groups aren't playing each other?

So...

When I'm trying to level my unlevelled Mechs, I play in the Solo Queue. At least there I will win PUGlotto about once in every five matches, and get my 2XP for the day. I set my personal goal as getting the highest damage on my team. That gives me something achievable to aim for, even when the teeth-grind losses yield so little XP and CBills.

In the Group Queue, I and the better players on our team have to go meta in order to have any chance of winning. It's less fun for us, truth be told, to be forced into a narrow range of Mechs, and be unable to level our new Mechs. When we get into a cycle of repeatedly dropping against top tier meta groups farming us, I call it quits after the 5th loss and go do something less frustrating.

I realise I have options... join a larger unit so at least I have the weight of 12 players on a team, or get better. But I like to play with my friends, and I doubt I can get much better when my lowest ping is 160 and I've already been playing 3 hours per day for 2 years.

I can't help but think better matchmaking - such as I experience in other games - could make MWO better for all concerned.

Edited by Appogee, 01 August 2015 - 10:37 PM.

[Mister Blastman]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

It's for practicing the basics against a live opponent. People always complain about being fed to the sharks when there is a way to avoid that. Yes, it will cost money. But, that is the cost of avoiding said sharks.

60 bucks = full game = sales through the roof

Steam sales = even more copies sold!

But noooooooooooooooooooooooo. That makes too much sense.

[One Medic Army]

What keeps me playing most games: playing with 1-2 friends, casually.

What I'd love to be able to do in MWO: play with 1-2 friends, casually.

What MWO won't let me do: play with 1-2 friends, casually.

Thus I end up playing WarThunder, or Company of Heroes (Eastern Front), or other games that don't shaft you for partying up with another person.

(In WarThunder it allows groups of 2-4 in the normal queue, and it tries to match you against an opposing group of similar size. If you drop as a 4 you will be matched against at least a 2man on the other side, usually a 3 or 4)

The biggest reason to keep small groups out of the normal queue is honestly gone now that there's VOIP in-game.

[Imperius]

Again if PGI gets out a good Single/coop campaign for MWO the game will have a good practice and training ground for new players. CW should not be the focus that can't be fixed till MWO can keep new players. You need AI and a place to try things out to get a feel for the game before dropping in with me and getting rolled.

Edited by Imperius, 01 August 2015 - 10:36 PM.

[Johnny Z]

Kodyn, on 01 August 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

The point however, is that players shouldn't have to have premium time, make a private match, and go through personally training any friends they want to get into the game... If the new player experience is that poor, that's an issue with the game itself, and is only going to hurt PGI when the game goes to Steam and it's not just the forum warriors complaining.

Yes, we all ***** and moan a lot, yes, we do it about every little thing, but a good 75% or more of what gets complained about will be a much bigger issue with any new players looking into the game. This stuff matters if a game is going to make money and have a long, healthy future. And most importantly, it's the dev's responsibility to make their game playable and approachable to new players, NOT other players...that's just an extreme lack of foresight and common sense.

100% correct and a good point to, that Mechwarrior Online does have private matches for new players to practice in is a cool feature. They should have that in the features on their Steam page or where ever.

[Mystere]

Kodyn, on 01 August 2015 - 10:27 PM, said:

The point however, is that players shouldn't have to have premium time, make a private match, and go through personally training any friends they want to get into the game... If the new player experience is that poor, that's an issue with the game itself, and is only going to hurt PGI when the game goes to Steam and it's not just the forum warriors complaining.

Yes, we all ***** and moan a lot, yes, we do it about every little thing, but a good 75% or more of what gets complained about will be a much bigger issue with any new players looking into the game. This stuff matters if a game is going to make money and have a long, healthy future. And most importantly, it's the dev's responsibility to make their game playable and approachable to new players, NOT other players...that's just an extreme lack of foresight and common sense.

If people want to wait for mana to drop down from the sky, that's their prerogative. But, there are those who would rather do something about it instead of just waiting.

[Votanin FleshRender]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 10:26 PM, said:

If they had money to willingly burn as you say, what stopped them from creating private matches?

Does ANYONE play this game exclusively in private matches?

I talked them all into trying it out. If they had liked what they had seen, they would have dropped cash on the game. They didn't, after getting ROFLstomped endlessly in the group Q with me.

Does that explain it better?

[Johnny Z]

One Medic Army, on 01 August 2015 - 10:32 PM, said:

What keeps me playing most games: playing with 1-2 friends, casually.

What I'd love to be able to do in MWO: play with 1-2 friends, casually.

What MWO won't let me do: play with 1-2 friends, casually.

Thus I end up playing WarThunder, or Company of Heroes (Eastern Front), or other games that don't shaft you for partying up with another person.

(In WarThunder it allows groups of 2-4 in the normal queue, and it tries to match you against an opposing group of similar size. If you drop as a 4 you will be matched against at least a 2man on the other side, usually a 3 or 4)

The biggest reason to keep small groups out of the normal queue is honestly gone now that there's VOIP in-game.

Worste case scenario is that the whole group queue push was fabricated by trolls to make synch dropping easier and there for trolling matches easier. That goes for mode selection also.

Only slightly related, the biggest reason for removing repair and rearm is gone now also because of match rejoining making it into the game. There is no reason not have a sim like, game depth improving, disconnect fighting repair and rearm system in game now also.

Edited by Johnny Z, 01 August 2015 - 10:44 PM.

[Kodyn]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 10:36 PM, said:

If people want to wait for mana to drop down from the sky, that's their prerogative. But, there are those who would rather do something about it instead of just waiting.

We are doing something about it. History has shown us that PGI is learning, albeit slowly, and that posting enough about how broken things are in game on these forums will eventually get some things done.

Training friends yourself to get them through the process may be a workaround, but if your friends are intelligent enough, they'll realize that it's a flaw in the game that you even need to personally do that...

I think you're just missing the point in all of this in your quest to be snide and argumentative...If we view everything wrong with this game with the attitude of "well, they probably won't ever fix it, so we'll just have to find a way around it..", then why bother paying for any aspect of it, or trying to expand the player base at all? If it's all just held together with duct tape and we're supposed to just make do, why do the Devs even go into work in the morning? Why have forums, social media, etc?

C'mon now.. I know you know better, been around long enough for that. Give the conversation it's due chance, even if it's been had before. Many things in MWO had been discussed to death, given up on, and changed down the road. Mainly due to player feedback.

[Mystere]

Votanin FleshRender, on 01 August 2015 - 10:41 PM, said:

Does ANYONE play this game exclusively in private matches?

I talked them all into trying it out. If they had liked what they had seen, they would have dropped cash on the game. They didn't, after getting ROFLstomped endlessly in the group Q with me.

Does that explain it better?

No one is suggesting such a thing. It's for practice/training purposes. A private match is much better than getting frustrated by stomps.

[MauttyKoray]

I would love for duo queues to be launched into either group or solo queue. It may provide better matchmaking for all honestly...

Actually scratch that, a full on SINGLE QUEUE where everybody is pooled no matter the group size I think would be the best benefit...yes it may suck if you get on against a full 12 man, HOWEVER, across the board it may improve elo matching as a whole.

[Mystere]

Kodyn, on 01 August 2015 - 10:49 PM, said:

We are doing something about it. History has shown us that PGI is learning, albeit slowly, and that posting enough about how broken things are in game on these forums will eventually get some things done.

Training friends yourself to get them through the process may be a workaround, but if your friends are intelligent enough, they'll realize that it's a flaw in the game that you even need to personally do that...

I think you're just missing the point in all of this in your quest to be snide and argumentative...If we view everything wrong with this game with the attitude of "well, they probably won't ever fix it, so we'll just have to find a way around it..", then why bother paying for any aspect of it, or trying to expand the player base at all? If it's all just held together with duct tape and we're supposed to just make do, why do the Devs even go into work in the morning? Why have forums, social media, etc?

C'mon now.. I know you know better, been around long enough for that. Give the conversation it's due chance, even if it's been had before. Many things in MWO had been discussed to death, given up on, and changed down the road. Mainly due to player feedback.

My attitude is to find alternatives while waiting for PGI to fix things. Is that clear enough?

[totgeboren]

I have said and agreed with this many time since I started playing. I only have one IRL friend who plays, and when he is online I always get mixed feelings. What do I do?

1. Have fun games in solo drop on my own?
2. Have bad games but get to play with my friend which I enjoy?

I know PGI does not want 2-mans in the solo queue, but really? Couldn't they try for a month or something and see how it goes? This is the first online game I have played where I get punished by the game mechanic for trying to get friends to play. :/