131 replies to this topic

[TWIAFU]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Allowing solos in the group queue can easily fix that particular problem.

Not a bad idea but we already have solo players QQing about getting stomped by groups.

We have groups QQing about getting stomped by groups.

All solo 12mans QQing about getting stomped by groups.

Any everyone QQs that they are always stomped by a 12man Unit.

Everyone is complaining about loosing and everyone else has to change so they don't. Instead of using teamwork, let my team go against people that cannot.

How long after 2man groups in solo queue before solo and the 2 man groups starts to QQ about each other?

[Jman5]

Solo queue for solo players. premades stay out.

[Deathlike]

Mystere, on 02 August 2015 - 08:54 AM, said:

I never said it was optimal. But if people claim they have deep pockets and are really ready to drop boatloads of money into the game, then there are options for them to get started without being fed to the sharks. Hence my cynicism.

I don't think you can put them all under the same brush honestly. The people that throw money at the game are usually not quite the same people who actually want a better situation (usually they just want their friends to get into the game - I don't remember seeing Gold Mech owners talking about that kind of stuff very often).

[Kodyn]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

Not a bad idea but we already have solo players QQing about getting stomped by groups.

We have groups QQing about getting stomped by groups.

All solo 12mans QQing about getting stomped by groups.

Any everyone QQs that they are always stomped by a 12man Unit.

Everyone is complaining about loosing and everyone else has to change so they don't. Instead of using teamwork, let my team go against people that cannot.

How long after 2man groups in solo queue before solo and the 2 man groups starts to QQ about each other?

Who bothers to keep track of who QQs over what in this game anymore? It's literally everything.

The important part is the issues that will effect player retention, and attracting new players, not the fact that this community will literally complain about any and every change PGI can and will ever make.

PGI needs to start ignoring all the QQing and just do what's best for their game, which in this case, is finding a way to both attract new players, and keep them wanting to play/spend money. The queue situation is part of this.

Yeah, I personally don't enjoy group queue with less than an 8-12, because I can probably count on one hand the wins I've had in group short of that scenario. For some reason our Elo really enjoys matching us against guys like 228, or our own comp teams. But that's not the issue here. The issue is the new guys experiencing the same thing, which they should not be, yet are.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 02 August 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:

I don't think you can put them all under the same brush honestly. The people that throw money at the game are usually not quite the same people who actually want a better situation (usually they just want their friends to get into the game - I don't remember seeing Gold Mech owners talking about that kind of stuff very often).

I've seen quite a number of people these last few days claiming they have monied friends and complain that they are getting slaughtered when they go into the group queue. Those are the people I am referring to.

[Dingbat67]

Well -- I agree with allowing DUOs into the pug queue. I play with my wife and every time we drop together, we just get steamrolled over maybe 3 out every 4 games. It's becoming bad. I've already spent quite a bit of money in this game and was prepared to pitch in to upgrade my SO's account and get her some stuff but at this point, nope.

There's something broken. When I drop in a pug drop alone I do 300 ~ 700 dmg easily and have fun even when I'm losing. As soon as I pair up with someone ... nothing. Oh some nights I'll be doing good but usually, it's just one big stomp after another.

Add to that the uber amount of ECM introduced with the new mechs, it just ain't fun any more.

When I do drop with the unit I joined it's fun as usually we're doing 8 or more guys in the same drop. But if I want to take a buddy or two, it's rotten as hell.

No more money from me PGI.


Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

(I think I need to take a break).

Edited by Dingbat1967, 02 August 2015 - 07:04 PM.

[Impossible Wasabi]

It's been a problem for the longest of times that small groups are going to have a less than ideal series of drops.

A shame, because it's also how most people start playing almost every game out there.

[BumbleBee]

Maybe if there was a "Mixed" queue with a max of 2 groups, max of 4 per group, and the rest pugs. Both teams having the same number of groups. If there is a group size discrepancy, may include an ELO penalty for the larger side. Selected as an option like the server locations and gametypes (defaults to off), so that when the box is checked your small group could drop in group queue as normal, or you might end up in the mixed queue, same thing happens to solos. Groups larger than 4 would only search in the standard group queue whether Mixed is selected or not.

Adding a randomised short delay to being added to the queues (all queues) when launch is clicked could help against organised sync dropping.

Edited by BumbleBee, 02 August 2015 - 08:42 PM.

[XX Sulla XX]

Really I hate the solo and am much happier playing with another decent pilot in group instead.

[CtrlAltWheee]

+1

Have tried to get multiple friends to give mwo a shot. We want to play together. Group queue crushes them so hard they quit almost immediately.

[Johnny Z]

You know what? Two man groups should be allowed in both queues ASAP. Period.

If group queue is so great they will remain in group queue and thats just super. If they feel like going to regular queue then fine. A couple casual players should have that option. Really.

Why not allows solo's into group queue while they are at it.... I mean why not? Queue juggling aside for the programmers aside of course, but really who cares about them. Just kidding I hope you guys and girls are making a fortune. People that make the world go round deserve to be treated good.

Edited by Johnny Z, 02 August 2015 - 10:15 PM.

[Mystere]

BumbleBee, on 02 August 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

Maybe if there was a "Mixed" queue with a max of 2 groups, max of 4 per group, and the rest pugs. Both teams having the same number of groups. If there is a group size discrepancy, may include an ELO penalty for the larger side. Selected as an option like the server locations and gametypes (defaults to off), so that when the box is checked your small group could drop in group queue as normal, or you might end up in the mixed queue, same thing happens to solos. Groups larger than 4 would only search in the standard group queue whether Mixed is selected or not.

Adding a randomised short delay to being added to the queues (all queues) when launch is clicked could help against organised sync dropping.

The whining will never stop whatever PGI does because there are many people who just simply refuse to look in the mirror to find out what the real problem is.

The only solution for these people is PVE ... if the AI is not too hard.

Edited by Mystere, 02 August 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

believe it or not, but for me, selecting both servers, SPEED UP, the queues. Yes it did.

[monk]

Most of my group has stopped playing since the change. We generally had 2 or 3 guys on each night. Big nights we had 4 or if something really weird happened 5. But since the change it's mostly just me dropping solo. One of the big reasons is because little groups generally perform significantly worse than they did in the old system. I realize people don't want to bastardize the purity of solo drops, but I can't see what would be so bad about matching the sides with small 2 man groups (or even 3's). I keep hearing the same thing I've experienced - small groups are less fun to play in now than they were before. Significantly so. To the point where my friends who used to be excited to jump on and play with me now don't have any interest, and after asking them it's always the same reason - they don't have fun anymore because the majority of the time we either are a) with a team that is all on their own voice comms and won't talk to us or b ) just get rolled. I can't blame them. I'm honestly happier most of the time when they go because the games get better when I drop solo queue. I used to enjoy dropping solo and with groups equally.

My solution - we offer two choices as we do now, but with a little tweak:

OPTIONS 1: solo/small group queue: if a group is added to one side (max of 3 people in a group), a roughly equivelant ELO group of the SAME SIZE must be on the other side. MM tries to avoid cases where more than one small group is added to a side. I imagine this would be rather easy to accommodate considering the stats on what sizes the groups are in game. No side would have an unfair advantage (which has been noted by the devs...that even 2 man groups affect match results).

OPTION 2: large group queue: any group of 4 or higher automatically drops in here. Players also can toggle whether they wish to drop their small groups in this queue only or both queues to speed up match making.

The sentiment that we have to have a solo queue to keep things somehow pure is just weird to me. Especially now that we have voice communication in game.

Edited by monk, 02 August 2015 - 11:04 PM.

[Mystere]

monk, on 02 August 2015 - 11:00 PM, said:

Most of my group has stopped playing since the change. We generally had 2 or 3 guys on each night. Big nights we had 4 or if something really weird happened 5. But since the change it's mostly just me dropping solo. One of the big reasons is because little groups generally perform significantly worse than they did in the old system. I realize people don't want to bastardize the purity of solo drops, but I can't see what would be so bad about matching the sides with small 2 man groups (or even 3's). I keep hearing the same thing I've experienced - small groups are less fun to play in now than they were before. Significantly so. To the point where my friends who used to be excited to jump on and play with me now don't have any interest, and after asking them it's always the same reason - they don't have fun anymore because the majority of the time we either are a) with a team that is all on their own voice comms and won't talk to us or b ) just get rolled. I can't blame them. I'm honestly happier most of the time when they go because the games get better when I drop solo queue. I used to enjoy dropping solo and with groups equally.

My solution - we offer two choices as we do now, but with a little tweak:

OPTIONS 1: solo/small group queue: if a group is added to one side (max of 3 people in a group), a roughly equivelant ELO group of the SAME SIZE must be on the other side. MM tries to avoid cases where more than one small group is added to a side. I imagine this would be rather easy to accommodate considering the stats on what sizes the groups are in game. No side would have an unfair advantage (which has been noted by the devs...that even 2 man groups affect match results).

OPTION 2: large group queue: any group of 4 or higher automatically drops in here. Players also can toggle whether they wish to drop their small groups in this queue only or both queues to speed up match making.

The sentiment that we have to have a solo queue to keep things somehow pure is just weird to me. Especially now that we have voice communication in game.

Why would 2/3-man groups ever want to drop in the group queue again if they feel they have the advantage in solo queue?

And why only up to 3 instead of 4? And if 4, why not up to 5? And if 5 ... you get the picture.

Having solo-only and group queues make more sense, although as I have said earlier solos should also be allowed in the group queue.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Yep, playing 2-man is not the perfect setup for group queue. Yes, it's harder than the solo q. I know that, because I drop 2-man quite often. Group q is generally harder as it is, because your enemies are much, much more organised than players of 95% of pug matches. But there are ways to mitigate it.
Best way to mitigate that is playing lights or fast meds and operating around the 'frontline', not on it. This way even a 2-man can do quite a lot. Other way is to specialise, take mechs good at repelling lights (not necessarily ssrm boats), and guard main force's backside. Outside of the fabled competitive level, lurmer-spotter duo can work quite well too.
To think of it, a lot of setups work for 2-mans. One thing that don't work too good, is slow frontline mechs and slow mechs in general (as you have no impact on where the frontline will be, and have to be careful not to get abandoned by the main force). Yep, that's quite a lot of mechs in that bracket, sadly. But if you want to win more often, better leave the frontline mechs to those bigger x-mans on your side.

About the OP's idea:
The problem with the OP's idea is, 2-mans in solo q would totally dominate.
By 'dominate' I don't mean they would win all the battles, nor that they would have 3+ kills constantly.
By 'dominate' I mean that they would just have it A LOT easier and be A LOT more efficient than standard pugs who don't have anybody to watch their back, unless they are able and lucky enough to organise with people they've met several seconds ago. That would place all the pugs in a severe disadvantage, so that 2-mans could have their 'happy place'. Now, are there more 2-mans than pugs or the other way around? Where would the solos go to not be in a disadvantage? Where could they hide from the organised units dominating every other game mode?

Even as a member of a 2-man, I can't say I support the idea.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 03 August 2015 - 12:02 AM.

[Kissamies]

I would occasionally solo drop into group queues if I had that option. After farming the daily doubles, I guess. I already can do that in CW, though.

[Mavairo]

Mystere, on 01 August 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

A mass exodus of group-oriented people occurred because of that, and you want it back?

It works in world of warships, it can work here.
There is no "Mass exodus" to happen, because frankly those people left long ago anyway due to a meta that went on for over 2 years straight.

Group and Single que should be merged with no team larger than four.
There's still CW for the larger groups.

[Mystere]

Mavairo, on 03 August 2015 - 11:57 AM, said:

It works in world of warships, it can work here.
There is no "Mass exodus" to happen, because frankly those people left long ago anyway due to a meta that went on for over 2 years straight.

Group and Single que should be merged with no team larger than four.
There's still CW for the larger groups.

What makes you so sure another exodus will not happen again?

[Mavairo]

Mystere, on 03 August 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

What makes you so sure another exodus will not happen again?

Because we have CW, unlike the last time. Because we've already lost all the players we are going to lose in this game. I don't know about you but my friends list is chock full of people that never came back once the group que "got fixed".

There is already an environment made for the larger teams, where their battles actually matter. Matter so much so infact, that pugs, and smaller teams might as well not even bother (which is why CW is so inactive by the way).

I can safely tell you there's been another mass exodus, that the few big teams didn't really notice. The smaller groups, and teams left this game long ago, because there is no way in hell a 2 or 4 man is going to stop a 10 man, without a HUGE disparity in skill occurs, in which case it's usually a stomp against the 10 man.

usually said 10 man is some pathetic IS faction like one of the bottom in the CW map who don't have to fight the you know... Good teams in CW. But aside from them it's an outlier.

I know of several teams that have up and left this game in the last couple of years, squarely because 4 mans don't matter in the current game, by and large.