34 replies to this topic

[Hit the Deck]

...and keep cUAC/20's and cAC/20's GH limit to one.

There are only two practical and theoretical viable dual AC/20 platforms: a slow STD Assault and a ~80 kph XL Heavy. Considering that an AC/20 only synergies well with another AC/20, we let these two platforms perform better at their job and further strengthening IS' advantage at close range combat.

Agree/disagree and what are your thoughts?


PS: sample builds for dual AC/20:

• Current: KGC-000 and JM6-S.
  
• Theoretical: A 75 tons Heavy with XL350 (76/83 kph), endo, max armor, and an AC/20 on each of its arms with 6 tons of ammo.

[Tennex]

Good god. No thanks

The amount of face I wreck in my king crab is unfair

[Damien Tokala]

No way in hell

[VirtualSmitty]

Not a chance.

[Mechteric]

4 UAC5 on a King Crab are way better than 2 AC20 anyway


3 UAC5 on a Jager also

[Hit the Deck]

CapperDeluxe, on 02 August 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

4 UAC5 on a King Crab are way better than 2 AC20 anyway


3 UAC5 on a Jager also

Actually, it's exactly this case which made think about raising the Ghost Heat limit. You can read my other thread about the dual AC/20 King Crab: http://mwomercs.com/...l-ac20-kgc-why/

Other people may think and experience that dual AC/20 is great on the KGC but I'm not feeling it when we have quad UAC/5s and ice cold dual Gauss Rfiles....

[Mystere]

It should actually be the other way around. Clan AC20s and UAC20s should be the ones having their limit increased, not the IS AC20.

[TITANIUMsmoothy]

Clan ac 20 and Is ac 20 should have their ghost heat limit increased, they are short range weapons. Dual gauss, quad UAC 5s, laservomit are way better dual ac 20s. If dual ac 20 has ghost heat, dual guass and quad Uac5s should too.

[Y E O N N E]

Oh no, 40 PP at face-grinding ranges on 'Mechs that are either too big to get out of the way or too squishy to take a hit! So meta, much stronk! We must keep it down under the good and just heel of big-engine laser stomp!

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The Jager doesn't need an XL to AC40. My STD AC40 builds regularly murder XL AC40 builds simple due to the safer engine.

[Y E O N N E]

And I've got a STD UAC build that runs fast that will wreck any AC/40 build.

The point is that AC/40 is not even close to being something to fear on the battlefield. It can be effective, but it's not the scourge of 'Mechs everywhere.

[aniviron]

I disagree that nothing synergizes well with an AC20. SRMs are great with an AC20, they're in the same range bracket, and they fill the same role of a shoot-and-twist loadout that minimizes the time you spend staring at your opponent. The problem with this is that SRMs are just really bad right now, but when lasers weren't hugely overquirked and before SRM spread was nerfed into the ground, SRM + AC20 platforms were scary mechs up close.

On the clan side, medium and large pulse lasers synchronize nicely with UAC20s, they have similar firing durations, and the MPL has a similar range. SRMs don't do as well, because the duration of the UAC20 shot combined with shooting it twice means twisting is less effective. The bigger problem is lasers go with lasers better than UAC20 goes with lasers, for heat, ammo, and lead time reasons.

[Clownwarlord]

@$$ N 9

OK this is a bad idea just plane bad. As noted only two IS dual builds, but AC20 isn't viable already because of heat and range. Best to just use dual gauss so stop this bad idea of raising heat on mechs when they need to reduce heat on the ballistics

[Zordicron]

PGI, from what I have observed, has decided somehow that 30 points of alpha dmg is an acceptable alpha. More you get ghost heat. Think about all our weapons, you will see that 30 points is for the most part where ghost heat begins give or take. Some items, like SRM6 and 4, have to share to prevent people from bypassing the limit.

Except PPC's, because they are in time out forever apparently for causing ghost heat in the first place.

So, you are asking PGI to raise the bar for one weapon to 40. IMO, it isn't needed.

[Light-Speed]

NO. Those things are damn strong already. Plus I don't want more Gauss spam on the way.

aniviron, on 02 August 2015 - 11:12 AM, said:

I disagree that nothing synergizes well with an AC20. SRMs are great with an AC20, they're in the same range bracket, and they fill the same role of a shoot-and-twist loadout that minimizes the time you spend staring at your opponent. The problem with this is that SRMs are just really bad right now, but when lasers weren't hugely overquirked and before SRM spread was nerfed into the ground, SRM + AC20 platforms were scary mechs up close.

On the clan side, medium and large pulse lasers synchronize nicely with UAC20s, they have similar firing durations, and the MPL has a similar range. SRMs don't do as well, because the duration of the UAC20 shot combined with shooting it twice means twisting is less effective. The bigger problem is lasers go with lasers better than UAC20 goes with lasers, for heat, ammo, and lead time reasons.

This I agree with except for the part on how SRM sucks. It sucks at range, but if you get close it offers immense power. A couple days ago I almost took down a fresh Dual Ac20 King Crab in an Assault that had half of its firepower come from SRMs.
Now... if a teammate Shadowcat didn't didn't decide to poptart at that moment, overheat, and parked itself on the narrow stretch of road at a Terra Therma Caldera entrance between me and the Crab...
What's worse is that the Crab had higher elevation + ability to aim with arms which meant that it kept pounding me after I was trying to figure out how to fire my lower mount weapons... *sigh*

Oh, and add red lasers to the list of synergizing with ac20s, because while their cooldown don't match, they are still pretty damn good close range weapons.

[Bishop Steiner]

Hit the Deck, on 02 August 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

...and keep cUAC/20's and cAC/20's GH limit to one.

There are only two practical and theoretical viable dual AC/20 platforms: a slow STD Assault and a ~80 kph XL Heavy. Considering that an AC/20 only synergies well with another AC/20, we let these two platforms perform better at their job and further strengthening IS' advantage at close range combat.

Agree/disagree and what are your thoughts?


PS: sample builds for dual AC/20:

• Current: KGC-000 and JM6-S.
  
• Theoretical: A 75 tons Heavy with XL350 (76/83 kph), endo, max armor, and an AC/20 on each of its arms with 6 tons of ammo.

since you can for the most part only practically mount 2 ac20 on anything, how about no? Now I would be for LB-20X having no GH (if they even have it, haven't checked) to comp for spread, but standard AC20? Nuh-uh. 40 PP-FLD for 14 heat all day long? Just can't go for it. At least the Gauss has to deal with a stupid charge for it's 30 PPFLD.

[Darlith]

The trouble really isn't ghost heat on ac/20s as much as I despise it. The trouble is the next closest ballistic combo in terms of damage does almost no heat, dual gauss doing 30 pp fld for no real heat makes it look silly to fire two ac/20s for 40, at a third the range, for a massive block of heat.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 02 August 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

Now I would be for LB-20X having no GH (if they even have it, haven't checked) to comp for spread

LB20s don't have GH.





I'm ok with no ghost heat on the AC20s for the IS, or at the very least, reduced heat penalty.

Edited by WM Quicksilver, 02 August 2015 - 12:06 PM.

[lol lol lol lol lol lol lol lol]

Hit the Deck, on 02 August 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

...and keep cUAC/20's and cAC/20's GH limit to one.

There are only two practical and theoretical viable dual AC/20 platforms: a slow STD Assault and a ~80 kph XL Heavy. Considering that an AC/20 only synergies well with another AC/20, we let these two platforms perform better at their job and further strengthening IS' advantage at close range combat.

Agree/disagree and what are your thoughts?


PS: sample builds for dual AC/20:

• Current: KGC-000 and JM6-S.
  
• Theoretical: A 75 tons Heavy with XL350 (76/83 kph), endo, max armor, and an AC/20 on each of its arms with 6 tons of ammo.

Ghost heat is a band-aid solution to larger problems regarding pinpoint damage from alpha strikes that was being abused because of a predictable heat scale with no penalty until shutdown.

I'd rather the causes be addressed instead of applying more band-**** and duct tape.

*edit: bandaids?

p.s. Clan AC's? Really? In the year or so Clan have been out, I can count on my hand how many times I've actually seen someone use those.

Edited by 00ohDstruct, 02 August 2015 - 12:24 PM.

[Pjwned]

Mystere, on 02 August 2015 - 09:40 AM, said:

It should actually be the other way around. Clan AC20s and UAC20s should be the ones having their limit increased, not the IS AC20.

I agree actually, clan ACs already have burst fire so why do they need ghost heat?