53 replies to this topic

[DarkMetalBlade]

I've a very interesting question for all of you: Say that one day, the people that go solo in CW suddenly start to wise up & say, "hey, this call-to-arms is luring me into a death-trap! I really shouldn't listen to it!" in which they either switch to attacking, or more likely, leave CW altogether, especially if they're only here for the low-hanging LP fruits.

Seeing that they're the only ones that are defending all the planets, who's going to defend them if they all leave CW?

I'm asking this as most, if not all, of the active units choose to attack rather than defend, & if there's nobody to defend, guess what? CW becomes little more than Ghost Drop City, & I highly doubt anyone would like that.

[Febrosian R Gillingham]

I WILL DEFEND!

[Gas Guzzler]

I like pug dropping. Sure you will lose against an organized team but the damage farming opportunity is epic.

[o0Marduk0o]

Is this another PUG vs Premade thread?

[DarkMetalBlade]

o0Marduk0o, on 02 August 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Is this another PUG vs Premade thread?

Not necessarily - I'm asking who's going to defend if the PuGs wise up & not answering the call to arms calls for defense & either join in the attack parades or leaving CW.

[o0Marduk0o]

DarkMetalBlade, on 02 August 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:

Not necessarily - I'm asking who's going to defend if the PuGs wise up & not answering the call to arms calls for defense & either join in the attack parades or leaving CW.

Why Pugs shouldn't want to defend? It's not like attacking is easier than defending.
People lose when they suck, solo or in premade, no difference.

Edited by o0Marduk0o, 02 August 2015 - 11:39 AM.

[TWIAFU]

DarkMetalBlade, on 02 August 2015 - 10:47 AM, said:

I've a very interesting question for all of you: Say that one day, the people that go solo in CW suddenly start to wise up & say, "hey, this call-to-arms is luring me into a death-trap! I really shouldn't listen to it!" in which they either switch to attacking, or more likely, leave CW altogether, especially if they're only here for the low-hanging LP fruits.

Seeing that they're the only ones that are defending all the planets, who's going to defend them if they all leave CW?

I'm asking this as most, if not all, of the active units choose to attack rather than defend, & if there's nobody to defend, guess what? CW becomes little more than Ghost Drop City, & I highly doubt anyone would like that.

We will have less solo players complaining about voluntarily playing solo in the primarily GROUP and UNIT focused part of the game.

[DarkMetalBlade]

TWIAFU, on 02 August 2015 - 11:41 AM, said:

We will have less solo players complaining about voluntarily playing solo in the primarily GROUP and UNIT focused part of the game.

Then the guys in units will likely start complaining that they've either got nobody to play with, or that they're always losing against the stronger units (if the latter is the case, then I've no sympathy to you.)

Seriously though, why is nobody answering my question?

[Khereg]

o0Marduk0o, on 02 August 2015 - 10:56 AM, said:

Is this another PUG vs Premade thread?

It wants to be.

Check back in a couple of pages to see how it tuned out.

[ApolloKaras]

I dunno, I would worry about CW has a whole, units included. There are several units which are a shadow of its former self. Right now I have 2 attacking wings, and no one defending. Im in here with 3 buddies and.... thats it. I don't think I'd worry so much about just pugs, you should worry about the entire game mode. This pug victimization is getting old.

[Crockdaddy]

I enjoy the pug defend dropping. Usually I can have my best games (best scores not winning) during a pug defend. I just wish it was easier to get matches more quickly in general. I wish more units would participate. I wish PGI would give meaning to the dots on the map. I wish I would Hate Davions, Steiners, Clanners.

Grouping up will always lead to a better experience for the most part.

[Kin3ticX]

Call to arms was a mistake. Pugs can quit if they want. I give pugs lots of credit for helping CW limp along but they are also getting roflstomped a lot. The pugs are quitting and so are the units. Oh well.

[Crixus316]

DarkMetalBlade, on 02 August 2015 - 11:55 AM, said:

Seriously though, why is nobody answering my question?

Because we are tired of reading another whiny thread about where the evil premade touched them.

[DarkMetalBlade]

Mr Bigglesworth, on 02 August 2015 - 03:40 PM, said:

Because we are tired of reading another whiny thread about where the evil premade touched them.

All I'm doing with this thread is speculating what might happen if the PuGs actually grow a brain, start putting two & two together, & realize that CW is not the place for them, thus leaving this mode for dead. Seeing that they're the main defenders of the planets that the units gain for their faction, it would be a bit extreme that, all of a sudden, they've got no opposition anymore, & it becomes Ghost Drop City.

Now, might those snarky responses stop, please?

[Deathlike]

To answer the OP's topic title question..

If the PUGs leave, noone has to defend. The best defense in CW is "not showing up" due to the pain that is ghost drops.

CW as a mode has to be reworked from the ground up and blaming units is not the way to go. Improving the infrastructure from the NPE to how CW functions FIRST AND FOREMOST has to be reworked, before we can even get to discussing "pugs vs premades".

It's like a sports team in general. If your team (CW) is terrible, why would it matter if you suddenly get more premium seats (players/solos or/vs premades) or a new stadium (terrible map or weak gamemode)?

People trying to get ahead of the situation that is irrelevent when the core issue of bad design (whether its contracts/rewards/purpose) makes people disinterested. Sometimes I honestly wonder why people prioritize the least important thing as the "most important".

[DarkMetalBlade]

Finally, a sensible response!

Yes, I am pretty familiar with the "Best defense is an unmanned defense" statement of today's CW, & I definitely agree that CW needs to be pulled back & redone from square one, because as it is, it'll not get much interest from anyone.

For starters, do away with ghost drops altogether, & handle unopposed attacks as thus: If nobody on the other side shows within 10 minutes, territories automatically get flipped to the attacking side. The amount flipped will depend on how many strike teams the attackers have - if four teams stack up on a single planet with no defenders, then four territories flip for every ten minutes. That means if they're left unchecked, the planet's theirs to take, completely without any opposition. However, once even one defending team forms up? It's game on, & the rest of the teams have to wait their turn until another team of defenders show up.

[Davegt27]

We experienced pugs know that if know one shows up to fight they most likely cant take a planet

You would have to ghost drop for hours to get a planet

Use experienced pugs know to not join the queue if the opponents are in multiples of 12

Say you see the call to arms and go to check it out and you see exactly 12 opponents then most likely that is a 12 man looking for cannon fodder

Just a few tips

[slide]

As Deathlike says there is a fundamental problem with the game mode itself that needs to be addressed. Pugstomping is a side effect of a few big teams farming CBills and rewards because they can, not necessarily because they want to. Since MWO began the pug v premade has been an issue, CW is just the latest incarnation.

Until there are numbers of people playing similar to the Tukayyid event the problem will remain. Units give up because there is no challenge or purpose and pugs give up because they get stomped a lot.

Honestly the best games I have played have usually been pug v pug because there is an element of unpredictability about it that you don't see against an organised unit (Units usually have several plans that work and they stick to them). But there is also a question of skill which undoubtedly has an impact on the game play.

I am totally against limiting how people play but I think trial mechs should not be allowed in CW. If you haven't played enough to field 4 of your own mechs then you shouldn't be playing CW. The demoralizing effect of being stomped that hard will likely put people off CW and MWO for ever.

An example of what I am talking about happened just the other day. A random group of pugs including myself were defending on Boreal against what was obviously a green as grass Wolf Strike team of pugs. Short answer is that they never even got the gates open, were some thing like 24-0 down before our team got bored and went over the gates to finish them off (try doing that in a Battlemaster, it not easy) I honestly felt sorry for the other team. I think it ended something like 48-6 and took about 20 minutes. Imagine what an organised team would have done to them.

I also think that units that have tagged worlds should be primarily responsible for defending them. If some one is attacking your world then you are unable to attack somewhere else until your world is successfully defended. Pugs can still help. But as it is Units can go around endlessly tagging planets with no thought of defense unless it is in the last crucial minutes of the TZ. It effectively gives units limitless players to protect their assets whilst their elite guys take the next planet. The real world nor Battletech works like that. If you can't hold what you own then you can't take more.

Fundamental changes are definitely needed.

[JC Daxion]

To me the best thing they could do for CW is turn it off......

Then back on for certain stretches of time. Make CW event driven.. Give incentive to play it, and make the rewards for flipping planets, or attacking or defending worth doing..

add achievements for things, give other bonuses besides the normal achievements for leveling your faction.

Things like, hold off an attack for a amount of time, or kill a certain amount of mechs in a match, or types of mechs ect.


To me the CW should be total event driven.. leaving it always on, IMO is a bad idea for the size of the community. Even turning it on for say 4 hours one night, could get a storm of people wanting to play it. then leave it off for a few days, or maybe even a week.. Change the times so people that play at different times would get a change to play it too.

doing this could also help, maybe they need to do two cues. A group and a solo like normal.. There is so much they can do, but it will take time.. CW is 6 months old? it can improve tons, it just needs ideas and not so much complaining..

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

I like MWO online. Its an easy game to pick up, get into and enjoy for a short while without too much mucking about. Apart from an abiding interest in Battletech canon lore, this accessibility is the real strength of MWO and has the most appeal to me. But for this topic to be more meaningful, you really need to get rid of the "if" in its title. That boat has already sailed months ago. Its already happening and you're seeing it now.

Some like myself, will occasionally foray into CW for the "low hanging fruit" of that mech bay at Level 2, but its much more enjoyable and profitable to stick to the solo and group queues. As someone, who often "pugs" due to unavoidable time and location constraints, it makes perfect sense to pick my battles and not enter contests where the odds are effectively stacked against you. Not my problem if I'm missed and I'd expect that they'll always be a supply of fresh newbie blood to the CW mincer, especially when the product goes on Steam. Just don't count on the initiated (and the majority of players) to regularly participate in it.

It is true that solo pugging does get monotonous and stale after awhile. There must be a point to acquiring all these nice mechs. I was hopeful that CW could alleviate this, but as it stands now, its designed only for the "big battalions" in MWO and not for others. As is often been clearly said, "join a large group", otherwise get the hell out of CW. I do think that many abide by this and often reflect on the level of MWO activity in my own small mercenary group. It has dropped off considerably in the past six months after the realisation of what CW actually is. Sadly, for many, its best to keep clear, play MWO less often or just do something else.

Will this situation change? Who knows? My guess is probably not for awhile, if ever. But I have low expectations. Whilst PGI does have a good record of implementing improvements, I personally haven't seen anything about drastic changes to CW. If there is, then I'd assume that they'd probably be slow in coming about anyway. For that matter, do the people at PGI even read these forums? But don't worry, after awhile with no response, I'm sure that the complaints, requests and rants will start to cease and it is at that point that CW is truly dead. As the CW proponents often allude to, just form up in another 12 man and you can start humping each other to your hearts content.