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To The Cool Guy Giving Support From Behind...

CW LRM Sniper

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#81 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 18 October 2015 - 06:25 PM

View PostRagz, on 17 October 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

worth noting I'm not lost on the use of missile boats, again coordination is a BIG part of that being effective.

SOME people are good at it, thats great, but without coordination its like a solar powered flashlight.

If your going to be a TEAM asset, recognizing you're playing a pug and dressing the part are kind of important.

I know specialized rolls are fun, in a unit it's literally amazing how powerful a sniper can be IN A UNIT.
(DISCLAIMER: sometimes you get a team of two or more in a pug that happen to be coordinated cause of team speak or whatever your choice of voip is, this is generally INCREDIBLY effective, this can make almost any specialized roll, exponentially more powerful)

It's okay to admit you don't care and you just wanna missle boat or poke and cower in a pug because you find it entertaining and YOUR score is up. but recognize this OP is what everyone else is generally thinking when they see you peel off and show up in uncoordinated spurts because you're not close enough to pick the target everyone else is working on or get visual cues by players nearby.

We certainly agree that any specialization REQUIRES coordination, and preferably decent leadership. Even if it's not arranged in advance, if someone takes charge at drop time and coordinates those assets, THEN they are useful.

Without coordination, it's a toss-up. It also depends on players and their mechs being able to fill more than just one specialized role in a drop.

We are in agreement here, quite very well indeed. It's why my scout mechs invariably carry some close-range armament (if not ALL close-range), my LRM mechs carry plenty of backup, and no mech is ever specialized into a single role to the exception of any other capability.

An important instinct to develop in a player, is knowing when to wear which hat, and when to switch them. "Under what conditions do I go from LRM indirect fires to directly engaging my enemies with those ERMLs?" Learn THAT, and you'll be fine.

#82 JC Daxion

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Posted 19 October 2015 - 03:27 PM

I typically run what i call a more aggressive game. I typically love to brawl, and the few mechs i have LRM's on, i do what i call the Long brawl.. aka 200-400m. LRM's cover the distance needed to hit very fast, so even with radar dep they are not going to make it to cover..

You are in position to use other teammates. to help protect you, and you can soak some damage as well. I typically run lower ammo counts than average because i almost never blind fire, so i make my shots count. After i loose a bit of ammo, i feel perfectly find soaking 100-200 or so points of damage, which more often than not, taking my time doing some damage soaking, i am helping more than if i fired off another 200 rounds. I also try to run some back up weapons that will give me another 20 points of damage, that is pin-point as well.

Soaking for a bit can often let others fall back, as the lines rotate, and while the damaged mechs fall back, fresh mechs move up.. often a great time for LRM's to work well is later in the match. Mechs have open armor points, and with the spread you might see a mech turning to run, Grab a quick lock, and fire, before you even know where the open point is.. and a couple missiles can hit and and grab the kill. Where as direct fire weapons, the open part might be Right side, but you aimed left, or maybe you aimed center and it had a ST open. (before the paper doll pops, and if it is to far for you to tell visually where the damage is)

Typically with LRM's i run catapults, for obvious reasons.. (including lore) But they just look so cool with the double racks. But i always try to do my part with both soaking damage, and doing damage.. Nothing chaps me more, than dying with a couple mechs left, and they are both assaults, with completely fresh armor, sitting back sniping in a dire and atlas.... If they had only spent a bit of time taking some damage.. the game would of had a completely different out come..

Of course there are exceptions to every rule.. But the team that spreads damage the best, is typically the one that wins.. 4-5 mechs rotating the front lines, can soak up 500-700 damage easy.. without rotation.. those same 5 mechs would be dead, as the two front line guys are killed, and now you are 3 on 5.. and get rolled by an easy push.


long range weapons are not a free pass to never soak some damage.. (lights are about the only ones that don't fall under this) but then again, they should be doing maneuvers to try to pull, or take shots from other angles, getting mechs to turn, so the team stops taking fire.. Chasing a light, or getting them to twist is just another form of tanking.. Just don't get hit...

Edited by JC Daxion, 19 October 2015 - 03:30 PM.


#83 Fuerchtegott

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Posted 05 November 2015 - 04:19 AM

Just another simpleton offering his opinion on lurms ...

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#84 JigglyMoobs

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Posted 10 November 2015 - 12:51 PM

I was on alpine just the other day and, I kid you not, literally half of the team were lrm support mechs.

we got the top of the hill. great right?

wrong. the other team was unusually coordinated, almost all direct fire mechs, perfect ecm coverage charging up the hill, atlas ddc leading the way.

at first the 3 or 4 of us actually shooting back effectively kept them back, we were trying also to hold locks for our lrm boats wnd support lrms but we were being focused so hard we soon ran out of armor.

up the hill cane the enemy team almost at full strength like some evil flood.

luckily they went straight for our lrm mechs!

so I went on VoIP: direct fire mechs are out of armor you guys have to tank one round of damage!

so our support mechs stood around on the hill for an extra 20 seconds or so and face tanked hits for us.

this gave me and a couple other guys time to kill the most threatening mechs from behind, and then the direct fire mechs on our team was able to play hide n seek with the enemies on top of the hill while lrm mechs dropped below to fire their lrms.

in the end we killed all of them.

final battle was me on top with my totally naked timberwolf dancing around with two of their guys on top of the hill while lrms rained in from 3 very beat up support mechs below.

lesson here: you can support but make sure you are close enough to the front to face tank if the team needs you. had our support mechs not taken that 20 sec beating for us the front line mechs would have been wiped out, then onto a close range brawl between the whole enemy team and our lrm shooters.... 0:12 ggclose.

#85 Surn

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 10:47 AM

Snipers are like gold as it is the only IS advantage at the moment.

#86 Tordin

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 01:17 PM

I can understand pure lrm boats standing behind with no backup, they might not be as useful, following with the rest since they have no bakcup weapons. Again they could use themself as distractions when they run out of lrm ammo. Still no hate on those who hide behind the frontlines, they will eventually get lights hacking away on them with little chance to survive, so dont bother hate and citizize them.

On the other hand if mostly lrm boats have decent backup weapons like lasers, srm and smaller ballistics, they SHOULD get along with the rest of the group since they have at least some kind of defense against threats.

#87 Prussian Havoc

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Posted 21 November 2015 - 03:28 PM

View PostSthtopokeon, on 08 August 2015 - 08:02 AM, said:

Spoiler

A: Get familiar with the role of a skirmisher. Use Mechs like this or this one (there are many more). Stay behind your Heavies and Assaults, fire your LRMs at 300-400m. Win.


Disclaimer: I'm not denying that there are situations, where this whole support-role-thingy actually works. But for the vast majority of Pugs the text above applies quite well.


EXCELLENT builds!

Min-Maxing can get us all in trouble at times. This is nowhere more true than with Support Mechs. LRM-only Mechs are so specialized that in a group of only 12-Mechs, it is often a major handicap for their respective-team.

Also your advice to LRM-drivers that they fight their Mechs within Line-of-Sight of the enemy (200-400meters) is spot on. Combined with a TAG laser to negate that DDC's ECM and any aggressive LRM-driver can Solo-Kill an Enemy Assault... it'll take no small measure of skill and plenty of help from your Teammates but in the right tactical situation Quirk-fueled LRMs (the Hunchback-4J comes to mind) can easily achieve scores of 1000+ damage, 600+ Match Score, in addition to giving up a couple hundred points of Armor and a couple of Mech Limbs (arms are worthless on many 4J builds.)

#88 david665

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 03:26 PM

My TBT-5N has twin LRM-5+A's and I usually follow the big boys and use the missiles to harass and eat armour so the big guys can kill quicker.

#89 Joe Decker

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 03:53 PM

The Topic is correct. As a light Mech (because that was discussed) you got some Value if you get behind the enemy Team and distract a few of them, so the enemy Team cannot completely focus on your Mainforce. But a light Mech that is not distracting or sharing at the Front is useless in most PUG Teams. He might get his Damage and Kills in, but at the Cost of his Teammates. And here is the Problem - many ERLL Ravens and the like don't care about the Team winning or loosing, just about their own Stats.

Missile Boats should not stay too far behind the own Frontline out of two Reasons - they can be killed easily if isolated 500 meters behind the own Mainforce by Light Mechs and no one will be able to help them - and second even if they are Missile Boats, they also need to share Armor. So Missile Boats not directly to the Front, but about 100 to 150 meters behind it.

This simple Truth is known in our Ranks as Teamarmor.

Edited by Joe Decker, 10 January 2016 - 03:59 PM.


#90 Chados

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 07:27 PM

I think I've said it before that LRMs are best with Artemis and better still at midrange brawler distance. Staying 950 meters away from the fight will get you wolfpacked. I like to be in spitting distance of that Atlas or Dire Wolf.

#91 Muriel Steiner

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Posted 18 January 2016 - 03:15 AM

Here's some "easy math" for you. A Kitfox-c has an ecm, 3 ams, a tag, and a large laser. It is definitely a "support" mech and also, very definitely, doesn't have the maneuverability that would keep most light mechs alive, it has 190 armor altogether, HOWEVER the ECM and 3 ams combined can allow it to prevent far more than 190 damage to it's allies for as long as it remains active. Meanwhile, by staying out of the fray, it's team is only losing a large laser.. although a good supportive player will use this large laser (as well as a small laser and 2 machine guns) against any light mech that comes to harass the team.

Does anyone honestly think that this Kitfox can best serve it's team by standing on top of a hill and trading shots with.. well.. even an enemy spider, let alone some enemy mech that could just one-shot the kitfox? Should the Kitfox be the frst mech to go around the corner?

Now that we've shown that some support mechs are most useful when NOT getting themselves killed, let's acknowledge for moment that the OP seems to be talking specificly about FIRE SUPPORT mechs, such as LRM boats and all the various types of snipers. For that, we look at mechs like the Kitfox D and Adder Prime. Again, both mechs are slow for light mechs. While their armor might be above average for a light mech, they still can't really take sustained fire. The big advantage that either mech has as a fire support mech is that they are relatively maneuverable for a mech with that role. This means that they should almost always be in a position where they contribute offensively without taking too much return fire. Now you're saying "but that's my point. neither mech is taking any fire off the rest of the team!".. au contraire mon fraire.. with their ability to attack at long ranges, from unique angles, with heavy firepower, and then quickly reposition, both mechs are able to force the enemy to look around for where the KFX or ADR is attacking from, and they are able to make those enemy mechs move for cover, thus taking fire off of allied mechs.. they have done this without necessarily being on the front lines, or exposing themselves to enemy fire. Honestly, if the enemy does NOT react to the support mechs, then stay well defended and let the support mechs finish off the enemy. Either way, you win.

The problem, as I see it, is that many players don't seem to want to help their support mechs give good support. It's like players think that an LRM boat who attacks their target is "kill stealing".. so players don't light up targets when they can, or they make sure to switch their targets as often as possible so the lrm's will lose guidance. even so called "scouts" do this on a regular basis. In addition to not lighting up targets, these players often seem to feel that they MUST be shooting something in order to get kills n win the game, so they charge head-long into suicidal situations in which no amount of support can reasonably help them. Non support players need to consciously practice allowing themselves to be supported.





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