38 replies to this topic

[Archangel Dino]

What is the point of these things (lore-wise and MWO-wise)?

I'm really struggling with understanding their usefulness. Why on Earth - or the galaxy - would I mount a 6-ton Large Pulse Laser that can only shoot 600m with effective range when I can mount a 4-ton ER-Large Laser that can pew pew 800m away?

What's the catch? What were Pulse Lasers like in the TT and the lore, and what were their advantages in both the TT and MWO?

[Gotphill]

Lets say you only land 50% of a laser shot when you are firing on a fast mech, the pulse laser will do more damage than a tradition laser in that short amount of time.

Edited by Gotphill, 18 September 2015 - 02:50 PM.

[bad arcade kitty]

faster burn time, easier to land the damage on a moving and twisting mech

[Wintersdark]

ER Large Laser does 1.17 damage per heat generated.

Large Pulse Laser does 1.57 damage per heat generated.

Sure, the ERLL can do damage at longer ranges, but 600m is a very normal engagement range; it's trivial to use cover to approach well within 600m on any map.

Heat is what ultimately caps damage output.

Thus, the LPL is a much more efficient damage dealing weapon.

Also, as has been noted, the LPL has a vastly shorter burn duration (roughly equal to the Medium Laser) which allows you to get more damage onto your target (say, he's moving into cover) and focus that damage better.

The LPL is a fairly substantially better weapon than the ERLL. (Edit: Yes, not always - there are purposed and builds where the ERLL is better for a various reasons; the ERLL isn't bad. But overall, as a heavy energy weapon, and given our mech build system/hardpoints/etc the LPL is very often a better choice)

Edited by Wintersdark, 18 August 2015 - 08:33 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Also, ERLL - 2DPS. LPL - 2.81DPS.

Actually, just look at the weapon data here: http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/equipment

Edited by Wintersdark, 18 August 2015 - 08:36 PM.

[Takashi Uchida]

Sci-fi wise: I remember one of the old game manuals saying that that a laser that fires in rapid-fire manner instead of a constant beam allows the destroyed armor to fall off of something before the next pulse, increasing damage (sarna has something similar).

MWO specifically: As far as IS mechs go, I'd rather not get into staring contests with Clan mechs. Pulse lasers offer a short beam duration so you can do your damage, twist, and get out of the way before getting ready to engage again.

Mechs I like using MPL/LPL on: Enforcer-4R (has a couple general energy quirks, is fast and manueverable, you can ditch the ballistic if you want more survivability), Thunderbolt-5SS (has MPL range and some general energy quirks, decent hardpoint location), Awesome-8Q/9M (main quirks are for ER/PPCs, but has general energy ones too, Banshee-3M (basically similar to Awesomes, but potentially faster, more armor, some nice high hardpoints).

SPL I usually only use on Firestarters, Locusts, small, fast mechs with lots of energy slots. Great for coring out backs or taking out legs.

On larger mechs, putting 3 LPLs and filling the rest with MPLs for a hot, but no-ghost heat alpha is also playable and has served me well in casual games.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Archangel Dino, on 18 August 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

What is the point of these things (lore-wise and MWO-wise)?

I'm really struggling with understanding their usefulness. Why on Earth - or the galaxy - would I mount a 6-ton Large Pulse Laser that can only shoot 600m with effective range when I can mount a 4-ton ER-Large Laser that can pew pew 800m away?

What's the catch? What were Pulse Lasers like in the TT and the lore, and what were their advantages in both the TT and MWO?

Well as far as TT, pules lasers gave you a -2 hit modifier, technically making them more accurate. For the IS models, pulse lasers did a point more of damage for the large and medium versions (small got screwed for some reason and did the same damage as a regular small laser) as well, giving them a slight damage edge (though probably not justified in comparison to the tonnage spent). For the IS this came at a pretty big range reduction compared to 'standard' lasers. Clan ER and pulse lasers had the same damage profile (except again the Clan small pulse laser doing the same damage as an IS sm. laser), with ER versions having a slight range advantage but pulse lasers being 'cooler' to fire (plus the aforementioned to hit bonus).

Basically pulse lasers are more likely to hit, though for the IS the reduced range somewhat mitigated the to hit bonus since they were more likely to be firing at targets in the weapons medium or longe range brackets (with a corresponding higher to hit number to roll to land the shot). The Clan versions didn't suffer this problem nearly as much, since they had such good 'reach' in comparison (without looking it up I think double their IS counterparts).

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Yeah, and lore-wise it's basically where Pulse Lasers have better duration (shorter) than Regular (average) or Extended Range (Longest).

And therefore, the original rules are highly simplified, compared to newer and more advanced P&P rules.

[IraqiWalker]

People discussed the tactical aspects of using them in TT.

I remember that in lore, pulse lasers served one more function: Anti-infantry. Their pulse speed was adjustable, and at high pulse settings they operated like machine guns, and were used as such against infantry. So instead of moving a big beam around, that wasn't as accurate against infantry, you just spam lots of tiny pew pews that mow infantry down.

[SnagaDance]

Tincan Nightmare, on 18 August 2015 - 08:52 PM, said:

Well as far as TT, pules lasers gave you a -2 hit modifier, technically making them more accurate.

In addition, the TT system uses a 2d6 to-hit system. Making the to-hit probabilities look like a bell curve. Getting a flat 2 point adjustment can make a huge difference for your chances, especially because you'll easily find yourself with 10+ to hit chances. Going to 8+ is really great.

Add in a Targeting Computer (giving another to hit modifier in your favor) and things get really nasty. Which has lead to quite a number of TT player labelling such mechs as 'cheese builds', even when they're canon designs.

[Richter Kerensky]

Archangel Dino, on 18 August 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

What is the point of these things (lore-wise and MWO-wise)?

I'm really struggling with understanding their usefulness. Why on Earth - or the galaxy - would I mount a 6-ton Large Pulse Laser that can only shoot 600m with effective range when I can mount a 4-ton ER-Large Laser that can pew pew 800m away?

What's the catch? What were Pulse Lasers like in the TT and the lore, and what were their advantages in both the TT and MWO?

In most of the games, Pulse Lasers deal more damage over a significantly shorter period of time, with the downside being reduced range. LPLs are beasts in this game, use them.

From our boy smurfy:

IS Large Laser: 9 damage, 7 heat, 1 second burn time, 450m range
IS LPL: 11 damage, 7 heat, 0.67 second burn time, 365m range (these are before quirks)

Clan ER Large Laser: 11 damage, 10 heat, 1.5 second burn time, 740m range
Clan LPL: 13(!!!) damage, 10 heat, 1 second burn time, 600m range

Edited by Richter Kerensky, 18 August 2015 - 11:06 PM.

[IraqiWalker]

SnagaDance, on 18 August 2015 - 10:59 PM, said:

In addition, the TT system uses a 2d6 to-hit system. Making the to-hit probabilities look like a bell curve. Getting a flat 2 point adjustment can make a huge difference for your chances, especially because you'll easily find yourself with 10+ to hit chances. Going to 8+ is really great.

Add in a Targeting Computer (giving another to hit modifier in your favor) and things get really nasty. Which has lead to quite a number of TT player labelling such mechs as 'cheese builds', even when they're canon designs.

Oh yeah. Targeting computers are my bread and butter. Unless the game is pre 3052. Any mech I can put a targeting computer on, I would. Even slaving only a single Gauss rifle to it is worth it. 15 points of damage wherever I want is huge.

[Richter Kerensky]

On top of that, Clan LPLs have the same burn time as Clan ER Medium Lasers so they synergize well.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"that can only shoot 600m"

Most of your battles are fought within 500m. So the ERLL doesn't have as much play.

[Richter Kerensky]

ERLLs only really get use on maps like Alpine Peaks and Boreal Vault, but Gauss Rifles do just as well, though, and are good in almost any situation. Most of the rest of the time having a weapon range of 600 meters is more than enough.

[IraqiWalker]

Fenrisulvyn, on 18 August 2015 - 11:17 PM, said:

"that can only shoot 600m"

Most of your battles are fought within 500m. So the ERLL doesn't have as much play.

Not really, a lot of the poking happens at around the 600 meters range. Especially with the 2 new maps.

[The Basilisk]

Archangel Dino, on 18 August 2015 - 08:24 PM, said:

What is the point of these things (lore-wise and MWO-wise)?

I'm really struggling with understanding their usefulness. Why on Earth - or the galaxy - would I mount a 6-ton Large Pulse Laser that can only shoot 600m with effective range when I can mount a 4-ton ER-Large Laser that can pew pew 800m away?

What's the catch? What were Pulse Lasers like in the TT and the lore, and what were their advantages in both the TT and MWO?

Like the guys said above PLs trade weight, heat, and range for more dmg per time versus the contibeams.

Lorewise ( or better like it is in reality ) a short durated laser burst is much more inefficient to create, since much of the invested energy is wasted on the emitter module.
So you need more cooling ( heavier weapon ) and the pulse disipates faster due to lower coherence. ( less range )
In addition a so called high energy ultra short burst laser does not only do thermal damge but uses the explosive vaporisation of the targets surface to create the effect of a kinetic impact.
So you get a combination of kinetic shock and thermal effect on the affected object.
In reality this is realized by a kind of NLW ( non lethal weapon ) that creates a thermal shockwave at the surface of the stricken object. ( you get just knocked over )

Edited by The Basilisk, 19 August 2015 - 01:28 AM.

[B L O O D W I T C H]

IraqiWalker, on 18 August 2015 - 10:54 PM, said:

People discussed the tactical aspects of using them in TT.

I remember that in lore, pulse lasers served one more function: Anti-infantry. Their pulse speed was adjustable, and at high pulse settings they operated like machine guns, and were used as such against infantry. So instead of moving a big beam around, that wasn't as accurate against infantry, you just spam lots of tiny pew pews that mow infantry down.

wasn't that x pulse laser?

[Rogue Jedi]

due to the short burn time, the Small Pulse laser is one of the best lasers for a fast moving Mech, ether to hit it or fire from it, the SPL on a Light Mech makes it much easier to kill other lights compared to Medium Lasers.

I usualy prefer the Small Pulse or Medium Pulse over there regular or ER counterparts precisely because they offer a shorter burn time and higher DPS, and I mostly use faster Mechs, where closing the distance is not usualy a problem

[Donnerkeil666]

The sound effects alone are worth the extra tonnage.