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Known Issue With Lrms?


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#41 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 06:17 AM

No seriously, what was that quote from? Was it the PC gamer article? Cause Ive been looking for it lol

#42 Nightmare1

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 07:02 AM

View PostJoseph Mallan, on 21 August 2015 - 02:59 AM, said:

And it will stay that way until PGI really make them better to use and stop listening to the "LRMs ate my baby" whiners.


Personally, I think LRMs are okay right now. If there had to be a change made, I would recommend doubling the damage dealt per missile while removing their indirect fire capabilities.

#43 Chados

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 08:07 AM

I disagree, the ability to fire indirect is a counter to meta pinpoint sniping, assuming you can get the lock. It adds flexibility to a system that's often hard to use. Without it the game would be all hill humping from invisible distances, all the time, except on the maps like FC or way inside the buildings in River City and Crimson Strait where the clutter forces brawling. Get rid of advanced zoom, ECM for days, and lazorboating, and then we can discuss indirect fire.

#44 Kjudoon

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:35 AM

View PostChados, on 21 August 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:

The Catapult in your first video is, in my opinion, a good illustration of why I personally don't like to boat a single weapon system and instead like a balanced loadout including short range weapons. It's never good to find yourself face to face with a bad guy and have nothing at all to shoot. My A1C Catapult thankfully came with an XL engine, so I can pack SRMs too. And boy, they come in handy.


That's my Orion VA in action. ;) I have to say it, but it's a far tougher monster than the Catapult which although faster and more maneouverable and can do much of the same stuff, is squishier and that is why I don't run it very often with the current state of LRMs unless I go SRMsplatcat.

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I think that it is possible to use LRMs and have fun with them in the current ECM-rich environment. It isn't easy mode, though, like people think. Sitting back 900 meters away and hoping for locks isn't usually effective, though it can help suppress long-distance hill humpers and poptarters assuming a UAV is up or a scout is close enough to get a lock. I try to pack a UAV and save it for situations where my team is pinned by snipers. BAP helps but not much; nevertheless, I do not drop without it on a missile carrier because it can help the brawlers if I'm close enough to debuff an ECM. Artemis is not optional because it speeds up lock time, and the target decay module is helpful to use techniques like off-angle shooting and missile bending (shout out to Catalina Steiner for her videos teaching these techniques); I emptied my Cbill account to get one the other day and I'm glad I did. Clan mechs all seem to have CLRMs and Clan tech predominates, so I carry AMS on everything that has the hardpoints and it helps. I also carry jets whenever I can to help get me out of holes or up obstacles, or soften falls. The pros of the LRM as I see it are flexibility to target either directly or indirectly or to fire when ECM blind, and the concomitant ability to pilot in a style that doesn't require racing around in circles at 130kph or needing advanced zoom to hill hump from a klick away to compete at all. I don't have the l33t k3wl twitch lazor sn1per skillz of Captain Tryhard or his effervescent sidekick, Metagirl, or the modules needed to play the sniper game effectively (and it's boring). Besides, my current machine can't keep up with the frame rates to play like that even if I wanted to, and I get motion sick anyway.

I'd like to see ECM adjusted so it isn't a magic cloak against a missile lock. But it can be coped with. It's often frustrating, and no other weapon system has to be strategized in the same way. But they can be used successfully.


Yes, they can be fun, I occasionally drag out the Pain Train and try a match or two. Usually they're dismal not worth recording affairs. I really am depressed by what I have to turn to if I desire to make Cbills anymore. Vindicators, brawling Panthers and Zeus seem to be what I have left. Might have to get back in my Grasshoppers again though. My 55tonners sit on the sidelines shedding quiet tiers.

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the ability to fire indirect is a counter to meta pinpoint sniping, assuming you can get the lock. It adds flexibility to a system that's often hard to use. Without it the game would be all hill humping from invisible distances, all the time, except on the maps like FC or way inside the buildings in River City and Crimson Strait where the clutter forces brawling. Get rid of advanced zoom, ECM for days, and lazorboating, and then we can discuss indirect fire.


This is why after I realized it, I did not fear but looked forward to Poptarts. You do it right and "Lrmtart" you can get high quailty trades on those same nerfed Highlanders and Victors. Nowadays they are the jump buffed clan mechs that like to pop way up there and can't get out of the way in time from your counterbattery. Plus if you LRMtart, you are getting a nice high launch point. Great tactic nobody has the skill for anymore. Oh yes, it's a skill. Timing and angle are tantamount or you're the one who eats that 30+ alpha to the face.

#45 FupDup

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 09:37 AM

It's because binary weapon systems are binary. When they work, they work...when they don't work, you're gonna have a bad time. Feast or famine, etc.

#46 Victor Hestan

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:05 AM

I believe the "bug" with them currently is gaining target locks on some targets after losing the targeting brackets. I cannot confirm whether or not the missiles will track as if you were still target locked.

#47 Kjudoon

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:09 AM

View PostVictor Hestan, on 21 August 2015 - 10:05 AM, said:

I believe the "bug" with them currently is gaining target locks on some targets after losing the targeting brackets. I cannot confirm whether or not the missiles will track as if you were still target locked.

Oh the whole, "I regained lock in time for the last aiming point so the missiles serpentine across the sky and get on target "bug".

Hillarious and working as intended. If the whiners realized that if LRMs moved faster that would happen less. It'd happen much less if they got rid of Raderp too. Something I rarely run with anymore because I don't need it most times.

Edited by Kjudoon, 21 August 2015 - 10:09 AM.


#48 Lynx7725

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:12 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Hillarious and working as intended. If the whiners realized that if LRMs moved faster that would happen less. It'd happen much less if they got rid of Raderp too. Something I rarely run with anymore because I don't need it most times.

Shh. I'm getting trick shots in with that. No reason to let the opposition know how...

#49 Kjudoon

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:15 AM

View PostLynx7725, on 21 August 2015 - 10:12 AM, said:

Shh. I'm getting trick shots in with that. No reason to let the opposition know how...

and if you don't educate them, they manage to get LRMs nerfed more! :(

#50 Lynx7725

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 10:19 AM

View PostKjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

and if you don't educate them, they manage to get LRMs nerfed more! :(

Oh I'm educating them fine. I'm educating them not to stand out there in the middle of no cover land thinking their direct fire weaponry is the king of the land. That is the first lesson that I teach them. First of many...

It's usually those who refuse to learn the first lesson that keep asking for LRM nerfs. PGI behaviour to date suggest they see LRMs being in a good place with the current meta; the upcoming ECM change will likely involve some changes to LRMs but I should be able to adapt fine, unlike some... uneducated... drivers.

Edited by Lynx7725, 21 August 2015 - 10:20 AM.


#51 M4rtyr

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:10 AM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 05:34 AM, said:


Wheres that quote by Russ where he said if everyone uses something its not OP its just good?


LMFAO... please tell me you are joking about that comment... But then looking at the game, it wouldn't be that hard to beleive.

#52 Jman5

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:13 AM

View PostFupDup, on 21 August 2015 - 09:37 AM, said:

It's because binary weapon systems are binary. When they work, they work...when they don't work, you're gonna have a bad time. Feast or famine, etc.

You know, I hear this a lot, but I really don't see it. Yes you have good games, and bad games, but the same can be said for any other weapon. If you're an LRM-primary build like my Warhawk than you should have TAG/Artemis, target decay, maybe a UAV and BAP. That will give you plenty of opportunity to power through ECM's difficulties. If you are some sort of mix build like my Direwolf than you can use those other weapons for those times when you can't get/hold locks.

The Feast or Famine games are the outliers. I'm not constantly bouncing between 1000 damage and 100 damage. The majority of my scores are somewhere in between just like any other build.

#53 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:21 AM

View PostM4rtyr, on 21 August 2015 - 11:10 AM, said:


LMFAO... please tell me you are joking about that comment... But then looking at the game, it wouldn't be that hard to beleive.


Im really not I just dont remember WHERE it was from... Hence why I made the other thread lol

View PostJman5, on 21 August 2015 - 11:13 AM, said:

You know, I hear this a lot, but I really don't see it. Yes you have good games, and bad games, but the same can be said for any other weapon. If you're an LRM-primary build like my Warhawk than you should have TAG/Artemis, target decay, maybe a UAV and BAP. That will give you plenty of opportunity to power through ECM's difficulties.



Name another weapon system that NEEDS all those accesories just to be able to function.

#54 Jman5

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 11:52 AM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 11:21 AM, said:

Name another weapon system that NEEDS all those accesories just to be able to function.


You don't need it all to function, but if you want to be completely reliant on LRMs you do better if you min-max them. Like I mentioned, my direwolf uses LRMs as a secondary weapon system. I don't have artemis, or tag. Just 3 naked LRM 10s. Most of the time they do just fine on their own, but I can still throw a lot of damage out if I can't maintain a lock.

It's like with lasers. You don't need lots of heatsinks for a laser to work, but if you're a laser boat, your build works better with more heatsinks and a targeting computer.

#55 Kjudoon

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:02 PM

View PostJman5, on 21 August 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:


You don't need it all to function, but if you want to be completely reliant on LRMs you do better if you min-max them. Like I mentioned, my direwolf uses LRMs as a secondary weapon system. I don't have artemis, or tag. Just 3 naked LRM 10s. Most of the time they do just fine on their own, but I can still throw a lot of damage out if I can't maintain a lock.

It's like with lasers. You don't need lots of heatsinks for a laser to work, but if you're a laser boat, your build works better with more heatsinks and a targeting computer.

True, but you are conflating the fact that you don't have a severe reduction of functionality with DF weaponry under similar circumstances requiring equipment and modules to put them back to where they were when those countermeasures were not present.

That is what is meant by 'needing it to function'. If ECM caused even a 10% reduction in the function of DF weaponry, the screams of rage would force PGI to change it in 6 hours on a weekend.

#56 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:27 PM

View PostJman5, on 21 August 2015 - 11:52 AM, said:


You don't need it all to function


You NEED BAP and TAG to fire. What games are you playing in where theres no ECM? I wanna play too

you basically NEED target decay or youll never hit anything

Wheres the 1.5t equipment that stops lasers from working?

#57 mogs01gt

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:29 PM

View PostMechwarrior Buddah, on 21 August 2015 - 12:27 PM, said:

You NEED BAP and TAG to fire. What games are you playing in where theres no ECM? I wanna play too
you basically NEED target decay or youll never hit anything
Wheres the 1.5t equipment that stops lasers from working?

and this is what is inherently wrong with LRMs. Some mechs are based around them(KTO) yet only have two energy hardpoints.

Yeah, that NARC is really going to help them as they get alpha'd to death.

#58 Victor Hestan

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:40 PM

View PostKjudoon, on 21 August 2015 - 10:09 AM, said:

Oh the whole, "I regained lock in time for the last aiming point so the missiles serpentine across the sky and get on target "bug".

Hillarious and working as intended. If the whiners realized that if LRMs moved faster that would happen less. It'd happen much less if they got rid of Raderp too. Something I rarely run with anymore because I don't need it most times.


Not what I was referring to. You start to lock on to a mech, lose the Dorito, but still continue to gain a lock. It shows you locked on to something, but there are neither the Dorito nor the brackets.

#59 Lynx7725

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:41 PM

View PostVictor Hestan, on 21 August 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:

Not what I was referring to. You start to lock on to a mech, lose the Dorito, but still continue to gain a lock. It shows you locked on to something, but there are neither the Dorito nor the brackets.

Seen that once or twice, yeah.

#60 mogs01gt

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Posted 21 August 2015 - 12:41 PM

View PostVictor Hestan, on 21 August 2015 - 12:40 PM, said:


Not what I was referring to. You start to lock on to a mech, lose the Dorito, but still continue to gain a lock. It shows you locked on to something, but there are neither the Dorito nor the brackets.

Im pretty sure that is related to lag.





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