77 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

Pretty much as the title says.

At 1st every jumped on it as it was the pillar of the game many many of us had been waiting on since closed beta day and i know was the reason i joined at closed beta stage.

The dream, the image and all it's promises have turned into a pile of crap. As far as Russ and Paul are concerned it's achieved it's goal and is now one of the 4 pillars of the game completed.

What has been delivered and what was promised and the vision has failed extremely hard in my view. A few new maps that can only be played in CW is not a finished product.

I honestly can't see any reason to play CW atm, and this new roadmap shows there is nothing coming soon.

If i didn't have premium time running atm, i'd take another 6 month break like i did around this time last year and say to myself maybe one they will deliver on that promise. If not for the fun people on TS3 i've gotten to know, i would have uninstalled this game months ago.

Shame that i know many people who now make friendly jabs how i still play this piss poor game and haven't moved on like so many other from the Founders day.


The only 1 thing i can say thank you to for PGI is the list of founders friends who i now have as steam buddies who i catch up playing other games, but not MWO anymore. Which is a real shame. As i said to one friend recently, i still need to get my mech fix, which he was happy to claim he was 6 months clean and no intention of coming back. Being the whale he is, i can only imagine how much prem time he has left but couldn't be bothered to use it as it means playing MWO.

[Samurai Hanse Davion]

Hello CW.

[ApolloKaras]

Its worse when your pugs refuse to take feedback and continue to run LRM crabs for no reason. So you know what, forget the pugs. Thats where I'm at right now. Leave CW for the groups if you get into it with a bunch of solos just accept that you will lose in the end.

[Kin3ticX]

Last word from the town hall around the end of May was that we would get something in October. Seems like we are just limping along waiting for that or a CW event like Tukayidd or something.

The frustration is valid but I don't think they delivered "piss poor". Its just incomplete on the persistent universes side of things imo.

The maps have a method to their madness and the combat is not 100% ERLL sniping from the edge of the map. This is a PGI success of its own. Things could have gone a lot worse, let me remind everyone.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 25 August 2015 - 08:47 PM.

[Deathlike]

Kin3ticX, on 25 August 2015 - 08:44 PM, said:

last word from the town hall around the end of May was that we would get something in october. So everyone is just limping along waiting for that or a CW event like tukayidd or something.

I think the "trust us, it'll be good" only works for so long...

[Jumping Gigolo]

Another CW whining thread again? Why can't you guys just whine on existing CW whining threads?

[multisoul]

as long as our trials are less than their trials CW is fine

[GernMiester]

What do you read? I kinda get this.

PGI - Hey everyone, here is a free game. We keep some stuff behind a paywall. Pay whatever you want or play for free, but really, you gotta buy this $500 gold mech package, its the bee's knees.

OP - YOU SUCK! Piss off wankers!! Give me a game for free and it makes hate you. I will NOT uninstall!!!!

[Hades Trooper]

GernMiester, on 26 August 2015 - 04:41 PM, said:

What do you read? I kinda get this.

OP - YOU SUCK! Piss off wankers!! Give me a game for free and it makes hate you. I will NOT uninstall!!!!

Sure I've only put in $515 US but that is the friggin most i put into any game and i get AAA titles, not this barely working burnt offerings from PGI.

So i'm not talking about free, and for what i've spent on it, it should be an AAA title by now. If i wasn't a mech junkie i'd have moved on long ago.

If you don't like that then there nothing i do can to help you so just move onto another thread if you really think that whats been given is what you expect from a game. Though i would have to say if you have only been around for a few months like it would appear then you wouldn't be so bitter yet with all the empty promises and "trust us" statements i've been through already.

[Hades Trooper]

Plus i should mention, PGI is pushing for the e-sports mentality now, which is why the whole spectator mode was introduced.

Paul and Russ think this is good enough for the steam release and have bigger concerns than CW these days, anything that comes in October for CW will be a slight adjustment at best.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Jumping Gigolo, on 25 August 2015 - 09:39 PM, said:

Another CW whining thread again? Why can't you guys just whine on existing CW whining threads?

remember the 3/3/3/3 whining threads. So fun

[Mycrus]

CW still a thing?

[Nightshade24]

CW 3.0 is in the works and the majority of CW's faults rather lie with the playerbase (ie playerbase doing what they didn't intend to happen. Did you think they planned for what happened if the IS takes 12 firestarters and just wins CW in 2 minutes? Did that ever happen in BT? Did anyone want that to happen? Was it logical? Well no. Just there was a small tiniest problem or strength, and 12 man teams magnified that by 12.

CW's problem in terms of player interaction is boiled down to this: CW wants to focus on units and group gameplay. But those same groups are what makes most of the problems. if it was 100% pugs way more people would play it and more 'close' games occur. even if they have say a 4 man cap (free, 8 man = c-bills from unit coffers) and it would still be an enjoyable experience for all. This will be looked at in CW 3.0

However the other problems with CW is lack of essentive to hold a planet or even to get a planet. big units get them very easily but smaller units have no hope.

This again will be looked at in the future and is planned. But the biggest problem of CW most of all- goes back to the player base... not how they behave, how they chase away anyone who doesn't have a meta build or does exactly as they say or what ever... they are not doing CW a favour but the biggest problem is the end resault: people do not want to play CW, and at this rate it would be the playerbase who would kill CW. not PGI, not IGP, not Harmony Gold or Macross. Not the bully down the block who won't let you use a summoner or an atlas in CW. But it is simply people going around spreading hate and boycotting CW.

Because obviously the best way to improve CW is to not help PGI at all and boycott it- I used to remember a time where boycotting used to bring change for the good and not a way to give a shameful death

Hades Trooper, on 26 August 2015 - 06:32 PM, said:

Plus i should mention, PGI is pushing for the e-sports mentality now, which is why the whole spectator mode was introduced.

Paul and Russ think this is good enough for the steam release and have bigger concerns than CW these days, anything that comes in October for CW will be a slight adjustment at best.

They acknowledged there are lots of competitive players out there. However they are not pushing for a full e-sports.
They are making it friendly for e-sports but they will want it to be friendly overall. the Spectator tool makes it very much more easier for people to do tournaments and e-sports. this isn't a bad thing... but it also helps me and my unit and others to have friednly unit vs unit as well as having internal group trials of position or possessions and stuff it also helps others create cinematic views and applications that quite a few people would be happy for.

[Kjudoon]

Saxie, on 25 August 2015 - 08:26 PM, said:

Its worse when your pugs refuse to take feedback and continue to run LRM crabs for no reason. So you know what, forget the pugs. Thats where I'm at right now. Leave CW for the groups if you get into it with a bunch of solos just accept that you will lose in the end.

I'm all for ending the group public queue as it is and reinstate the 4man limit again. All the bigger groups should be forced into CW if all the pugs should stay out. It'd help a ton of problems right there.

Then the unit 12man pug groups. Remember, the origin of PUG is "Pick Up Group", will not be solved. They'll just all be wearing the same tag and in a group larger than 5.

I can't imagine the problems matchmaker will have then without solo pugs.

Edited by Kjudoon, 30 August 2015 - 01:42 AM.

[Koshirou]

Nightshade24, on 30 August 2015 - 01:36 AM, said:

CW 3.0 is in the works and the majority of CW's faults rather lie with the playerbase

Sure. If a large number of customers are unsatisfied with the product, blame the customers.

Nobody is under any obligation to spend any time or money on any aspect of MWO. It is an entertainment product that people will use if they enjoy it, and will refrain from using if they don't. There is no underlying duty, as the preposterous accusation of a "boycott" would assume, to "support" PGI by playing CW in spite of its flaws. I'm not playing >99% of all video games that could possibly meet my tastes - am I thus "boycotting" all the poor souls who make them and depriving them of the support I owe them?

PGI, at this point, shows no sign whatsoever of having the slightest interest in CW and its problems (as an example take the months-old faction rewards), so why should I?

[Vlad Ward]

He's almost right, though.

The issue with CW is the player base, but not for the reasons he listed.

The issue with CW is that everyone wants to be a winner, and that's just not possible in reality.

For every winner there is a loser. But for these gaming groups and units that have been around for anywhere from 4-20 years, being the loser is just not acceptable. If they're not the winners, the game is broken and those other guys are cheating/exploiting/cheesing/ruining the spirit of the game.

Pugs still play CW. They most likely represent a larger portion of the CW population now than they did in the first month of Beta 1. It's units that quit. Not the strong ones like 228 or the massive ones like Mercstar. The bad ones. The mediocre ones. The guys who play tabletop RPGs and turn based strategy games and lack the reflexes, experience, and mindset to compete in a PvP FPS.

I don't think it's humanly possible for PGI to create a PvP game mode that MWO's existing community would play in large numbers. This community will always have something to gripe about, and will always find some reason to leave the competitive PvP queue (CW) and return to the shelter of their PSR tier after getting their **** kicked in by extraordinarily rusty (and probably half-drunk) comp players.

As a side note, pure pug vs pure pug doesn't automatically improve match balance. It just means whatever side is lucky enough to get a single half decent player will end up rolling over the other side as that one person gets 3500-4500 damage and 10-20 kills alone.

Respawn game modes exacerbate existing skill gaps.

[Koshirou]

Vlad Ward, on 30 August 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

The issue with CW is that everyone wants to be a winner, and that's just not possible in reality.

If that was the issue, people would not play any competitive online games. People do play competitive online games. Ergo: It's not the issue.

[Vlad Ward]

MWO isn't any competitive online game.

It has a rather odd player population that comes with its own unique set of problems.

This is (probably) the only Mechwarrior game ever made where the main character wasn't a hero/anti-hero who saved the universe/some planet/some hot space princess chick.

These aren't 15-25 year old high school/college students playing league of legends. These are 30-60 year old dads who write fan fiction and come up with their own honor codes.

Large scale, competitive PvP does not mix well with this sort of population.

Edited by Vlad Ward, 30 August 2015 - 02:30 AM.

[Nightshade24]

Koshirou, on 30 August 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Sure. If a large number of customers are unsatisfied with the product, blame the customers.

Nobody is under any obligation to spend any time or money on any aspect of MWO. It is an entertainment product that people will use if they enjoy it, and will refrain from using if they don't. There is no underlying duty, as the preposterous accusation of a "boycott" would assume, to "support" PGI by playing CW in spite of its flaws. I'm not playing >99% of all video games that could possibly meet my tastes - am I thus "boycotting" all the poor souls who make them and depriving them of the support I owe them?

PGI, at this point, shows no sign whatsoever of having the slightest interest in CW and its problems (as an example take the months-old faction rewards), so why should I?

Because PGI does have high intentions for CW- literally 2 to 3 months ago many people are crying that PGI was putting to much attention on CW and not the rest of the game and now people are saying vice versa when the recent changes are to the game IN GENERAL affecting all game modes and more.

My point came over your head and it's fair enough as it also takes things from twitter and the dev blogs into the topic.

Main thing is players are not playing it correctly.


If you had CW as a PvE kinda game with 12 ai enemy, 11 ai team, and 1 human player. You will have the player following the ai's and doing there plan of attack on the attack on the enemy base and such and so on.

But when you got humans, the co ordination changes a lot as well as the interactions with the now human team.

people will do things that PGI did not expect, rather this be spamming 1 mech, that wasn't OP by itself or very good by itself and now is impenetrable now en mass.

Or that people go to THIS part of the map and hill hump repetitively or camp there or abuse it to get a slight window to attack a generator from a location they shouldn't.

Working with players is very hard especially when there are choices available. Vlad Ward went into a topic I didn't want to go to deep into because I wanted to discuss the PGI - Game - Player interactions.

PGI does things to the game for what the plan of action was. but the players do not want to be to kind.

This is why when you take a game like this as a PvE game it is much more immersive where propper military tactics and battlefields unfold and such- because the dev has much more control over what the player would do and expect to do while the ai's - they programmed what they ahve to do and not simply assume what they will do.

of course in the earlier games there is an escort mission and it wants you to take a fast heavy but instead you take the behemoth or the annihilator or urbanmech into it and ignore everything- you may still win but it isn't the average convoy execution...

In a multiplayer game that control goes away a lot, For eg recently players are now spawn camping... however not the one we had 5 months ago- they are camping in there own spawn and letting the dropship to annihilate the enemy team.
That wasn't planned, what was planned was that the defenders should be defending the base and not let the drop ships defend it. Now they have to do a change to the dropships- but wait! now the enemy team will be spawn camping then and going simply for kills instead of the objective...

Problem?


Either way... I can't wait for the next tukayiid-ish event. Because that was the only time besides the first month of CW that we got lots of pugs and small units playing and having fun...

Vlad Ward, on 30 August 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

These aren't 15-25 year old high school/college students playing league of legends. These are 30-60 year old dads who write fan fiction and come up with their own honor codes.

I'm a 15-25 year old

I am one of those freaks who played MW2/3 since before I can even speak proper english and got into the TT before getting into intermediate school.
Granted I never got a game with my old BT mechs and stuff. No one near me plays... well considering most people around me back then was 8 and thought I wanted to play a chess reskin/ transformers?...

[Koshirou]

Vlad Ward, on 30 August 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

MWO isn't any competitive online game.

This sentence does not make sense.