16 replies to this topic

[Archangel Dino]

In its description, it reads "Counters ECM". In what way, exactly?

1) Does it jam ECM in a 180m radius similar to the alternate ECM jam option?

2) Does it bypass ECM when targeting 'Mechs with LRM's/Streaks/etc?

3) If it does #1, does the counter only apply to you, or will your teammates also gain the benefit of not seeing a "Low Signal" on their radar?

[Rogue Jedi]

1) no not 180m, it jams ECM in a 240m radius, however it only works on a single ECM so you will jam the closest, but if there is another ECM the second, third ect. will still work

2) no, it just jams 1ECM, so if there are 2 ECMs within range you still will not be able to get a missile lock

3) it completely jams the ECM so everyone on your team gets the benefit of the jammed ECM

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 27 August 2015 - 02:10 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Do not forget, that BAP (and the Clan AP too, AFAIK) also extends sensor range, speeds missile lock time (against non-ECM-shielded targets, and speeds target info gathering. At least, I remember it doing that back in the day.

People mostly carry it today only for countering ECM on non-ECM mechs, but it's important to remember the rest. You may want to keep it in mind, in case you're thinking of the Target Info Gathering or Advanced Sensor Range modules for your mech; you essentially already have those capabilities with BAP, and might be better served with a different module.

***EDIT*** Added strikeout for inaccurate info. My apologies.

Edited by TheRAbbi, 27 August 2015 - 08:46 PM.

[Tesunie]

TheRAbbi, on 27 August 2015 - 07:10 PM, said:

..., speeds missile lock time (against non-ECM-shielded targets,...

Um... No. it doesn't. It increases target info gathering (giving you the paperdoll display). It does nothing (besides sensor range and disabling a single ECM in it's short range) to missile locks.

Artemis, TAG and NARC are the only things to speed up missile locks. The BAP and Command Console each only increase target information gathering (damage display and mech loadout).

This seems to be a common misconception.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

My bad. Has that changed over the years, or was I operating under a misconception when BAP went live in '12 or '13? I coulda sworn that was the reason I used to carry it on my JR7-D (2x SSRM-2, wanted those locks fast).

Point does nonetheless stand, that BAP does more than simply counter ECM. That's the reason most carry it these days, the meta being what it is, but to carry a TIG module on top of it seems a bit wasteful of that module slot.

[Tesunie]

TheRAbbi, on 27 August 2015 - 08:45 PM, said:

My bad. Has that changed over the years, or was I operating under a misconception when BAP went live in '12 or '13? I coulda sworn that was the reason I used to carry it on my JR7-D (2x SSRM-2, wanted those locks fast).

Point does nonetheless stand, that BAP does more than simply counter ECM. That's the reason most carry it these days, the meta being what it is, but to carry a TIG module on top of it seems a bit wasteful of that module slot.

From my understanding, it has never helped with missile locks. it's been a long standing misconception that just keeps getting passed around. However, it was still useful, even before ECM, for it's ability to still lock onto shut down targets for SSRMs. Situational, yes. But still useful.

[Chados]

I carry a BAP whenever possible as ECCM. It's a lifesaver. All three of my LRM mechs have it, and I'm strategizing ways to get it on the others.

[mailin]

Tesunie, I'm pretty sure BAP came out a little after ECM, not before. (I could be wrong about that though.) Initially the only thing that would counter an ECM was an enemy ECM set to counter. Oh the QQing that inspired!

It is worth noting that a Clan BAP works slightly differently than an IS BAP. An IS BAP will automatically counter an enemy ECM when within range. A Clan BAP however needs to have a target locked. In that case it will counter that target's ECM.

Also, if you carry a BAP and an ECM, the BAP will not counter an opposing ECM.

Edited by mailin, 28 August 2015 - 03:49 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

a BAP is almost mandatory if you are taking a few SSRMs or LRMs so a lone ECM light cannot remove your ability to use them effectively.
it is really useful if you hit and run a lot (for the faster target info)
it is really useful for a scout because it allows you to detect targets out to 1km (1.2 if you also take ton advanced sensor range module).

it is the sort of thing I will add to almost any Mech if I have adequate firepower, ammo, heat, armor and speed with 1,5 tonnes to spare, next to ECM, or 3 jumpjets on a fast Light I think it is the most useful 1.5 tonnes you can spend

mailin, on 28 August 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Tesunie, I'm pretty sure BAP came out a little after ECM, not before. (I could be wrong about that though.) Initially the only thing that would counter an ECM was an enemy ECM set to counter. Oh the QQing that inspired!

It is worth noting that a Clan BAP works slightly differently than an IS BAP. An IS BAP will automatically counter an enemy ECM when within range. A Clan BAP however needs to have a target locked. In that case it will counter that target's ECM.

Also, if you carry a BAP and an ECM, the BAP will not counter an opposing ECM.

I am pretty sure BAP was before ECM, however it did not initially have the ECM counter ability, that ability was added long after ECM was

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Artemis, TAG and NARC are the only things to speed up missile locks."

I thought Artemis only tightened the spread? How much does it speed up missile locks?

Edited by Fenrisulvyn, 28 August 2015 - 04:06 AM.

[Kotzi]

50%. Works for streaks to. A glitch though.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Ah okay. Thanks. I prob knew that once but have been so caught up in how BAP/ECM works when loaded together that my brain is now fried

[Tesunie]

mailin, on 28 August 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Tesunie, I'm pretty sure BAP came out a little after ECM, not before. (I could be wrong about that though.) Initially the only thing that would counter an ECM was an enemy ECM set to counter. Oh the QQing that inspired!

It is worth noting that a Clan BAP works slightly differently than an IS BAP. An IS BAP will automatically counter an enemy ECM when within range. A Clan BAP however needs to have a target locked. In that case it will counter that target's ECM.

Also, if you carry a BAP and an ECM, the BAP will not counter an opposing ECM.

BAP was out before hand (was out when I started playing, when ECM was just dead weight and did nothing). It use to do everything it does now, just without the ECM canceling abilities.

They changed BAP to counter ECM (when ECM is not already loaded onto the mech that is) as matches came down to whomever had the most ECM typically won. TAG also had a mush shorter range back then too, which made it a rather ineffective counter to ECM. Back then, only ECM was able to counter ECM, and with only 3(?) mechs in the game that could take ECM, those 3 mechs became instant stars.

Raven 3Ls use to be murder balls no one could touch back then, because whomever had the most Raven 3L that grouped together could SSRM (which back then SSRMs targeted the CT only, like how LRMs try to) and laser anything else in the game, including a smaller group of Raven 3Ls.

Kotzi, on 28 August 2015 - 04:20 AM, said:

50%. Works for streaks to. A glitch though.

From my last understanding and reading posts from the staff, it isn't a glitch. It's actually intentional. Also, SSRMs and LRMs share the same exact lock on mechanics. Anything that boosts up one will also boost up the other, as it's the same mechanic. (AKA: All missiles lock on at the same time, mostly because all missiles are locked using the same "computer".)

[TercieI]

mailin, on 28 August 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

It is worth noting that a Clan BAP works slightly differently than an IS BAP. An IS BAP will automatically counter an enemy ECM when within range. A Clan BAP however needs to have a target locked. In that case it will counter that target's ECM.

This is incorrect. CAP and BAP function identically.

Fenrisulvyn, on 28 August 2015 - 04:05 AM, said:

"Artemis, TAG and NARC are the only things to speed up missile locks."

I thought Artemis only tightened the spread? How much does it speed up missile locks?

Artemis speeds lock time for missiles as well as tightening the spread (if you have LOS). I'm not sure how much it speeds it up, but it's noticeable, though not as much as TAG.

[Davegt27]

Crazy game you have to ask people on the forums how the game works

People cry about the power of ECM sooooo

They did try to increase the BAP range (I think)

But people cried so it was reduced again

The next week they went back to crying about ECM lol

crazy crazy game

[Kotzi]

Tesunie, on 28 August 2015 - 09:26 AM, said:

From my last understanding and reading posts from the staff, it isn't a glitch. It's actually intentional. Also, SSRMs and LRMs share the same exact lock on mechanics. Anything that boosts up one will also boost up the other, as it's the same mechanic. (AKA: All missiles lock on at the same time, mostly because all missiles are locked using the same "computer".)

Thats because they dont differentiate between the streaks and lrms. Their algorithm treats both locking process the same but streaks should not be influenced by artemis. It is unlikely that they will change it though, has been there forever.

[dragnier1]

Kotzi, on 30 August 2015 - 05:26 AM, said:

Thats because they dont differentiate between the streaks and lrms. Their algorithm treats both locking process the same but streaks should not be influenced by artemis. It is unlikely that they will change it though, has been there forever.

To answer your question - they said no.

Doesn't mean they wouldn't reconsider, but it'll be the last thing on their minds.