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Why Should I Pilot A Clan Mech?


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#1 Rawnblaed

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 07:57 PM

Ok, I have a few different types of clan mechs (SHC,EBJ, ACH). It seems that they are kind of flat, even boring compared to IS mechs. Their quirks seem to be all about structure and pitch/yaw/twist with the occasional weapon quirk. They have fragile torsos due to xl engines that you cant remove. I find that once I find a weapon loadout I like for a given chassis (say EBJ) I can just move the arms and left and right torso omnipods to the different center torsos untill I have leveled up each "variant". Why should I play them from an "I like to tweak my mech builds standpoint"? What are their advantages in general? Do targeting computers make them much better if used? I know they tend to be cheaper to build on the back end. Ok all you clanners, sell me on your tech.

#2 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 28 August 2015 - 10:14 PM

First, they're just plain BETTER. (With regard to the Shadow Cat, ignore that assertion. SHC is crap, for the most part.)

Also, I see you bought the same package I did. 'Grats, bruh! The EBJ is a GREAT heavy, and the ACH is arguably the game's best light mech.

EBJ hasn't gotten a quirk pass yet, by the way. It MAY get some fine tuning with quirks in the future.

Okay, to your concerns with Clan mechs. FIRST, XL engines. UNLIKE with IS mechs, the Clan mechs can't be destroyed by knocking out a side torso with an XL engine in it. Nope. Blow off the right torso in that EBJ, and those three energy hardpoints in your left torso (as well as the engine itself) are still intact and in the fight. There's no reason NOT to take an XL, though you don't have a choice anyhow. It's not a weakness, unless you REALLY needed those two extra critical slots in a side torso.

With Clan tech, everything in smaller and/or lighter. So no, you DON'T usually need those extra side torso critical slots. An XL engine consuming two of them doesn't really stop you mounting anything. I have one of my three EBJs outfitted with a gauss rifle in the RT.

Oh, and speaking of torsos (and specifically, torso omnipods), they're automatically CASE-equipped at no tonnage/slot penalty. So load up on guns, bring your friends. Well, ammo. (Nirvana moment.)

The weapons hit harder and/or have greater range and/or are lighter. Oh, and the Clan UACs? SO FREAKING GREAT! UAC/20 is SO worth it. Having a UAC and LB-X version of every AC class is sweet! Though the LB-2X is kinda awful. Whatever. Their cERLLs are hideously effective! Even with the negative quirks on some Clan mechs (increased cooldown time and beam duration on some SCR omnipod combos, for instance), I still find them SO much more effective than on any non-quirked IS mech. There's little wonder that the meta game changed to laser vomit. Clan lasers, even after some nerfing, are just SO doggone sweet!

Look, you have a trio of EBJs (assuming you didn't get the EBJ-C as an early adopter, though it's otherwise available). They have a 81.0 kph max forward speed. That's Dragon territory in a five-ton heavier mech, that can carry 3 UAC/5s and 3 ERSLs (my favorite EBJ build for sustained mid-range fire). Or a Gauss rifle and 5 ERMLs.

You have the ACH, right? Cool. Throw 5 SPLs and ECM on a mech that runs at 129 kph (without speed tweak), add some ECM and a pair of clan DHS, remember that you have a bunch of jump jets, and ask yourself what IS light mech can do all that? Answer: NONE. Plain and simple, NO IS light mech can match that. Then add the extra structure (once the armor's stripped, that's just extra time it takes to disable that part of your mech), the acceleration and deceleration quirks, etc. B to the E to the A to the S to the T.

I'd sell the Shadow Cats and invest in some Storm Crows. Or, if you like MASC and JJs and ECM on a mech with a relatively low profile and small silhouette for a medium, then give it a try.

TCs give all sorts of bonuses. Slight improvement to zoom levels isn't much to write home about. Extra critical chance, though? That alone is worth it. TCs do a lot of things for direct-fire effectiveness. It's worth reading up about. If you check out the AWESOME advice on metamechs, you'll see that most of his direct-fire builds use a Mk I TC.

The omnipod thing is a little less interesting since we can pretty freely reconfigure our mechs anyhow. Oh, except that, unlike with IS mechs, you can mix/match your various bits. I put together all three EBJs for a drop deck, using exactly ONE bought omnipod (or not? One or none, not completely sure), and even have my EBJ-C loaded for bear without any additional pods, and they all rock out.

There's about ZERO reason not to roll in Clan tech right now, since you already own a bunch.

#3 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:51 AM

Clan and IS, with a few exceptions (Timber Wolf and Stromcrow) are more or less evenly matched, I conciser all 3 of the Clan Mechs you have to be very good Mechs (some argue about the SCH but I like it).

The Rabi covered most of the points in his post.

things to consider, the Clan XL can survive loosing a side, the IS XL cannot, so the Clan XL is superior to the IS XL (durability) and the IS Standard (about half the weight), unless you are after a zombie Mech (can keep fighting with just the CT, head and 1 leg) there is no downside to using a Clan XL.

Most Clan Mechs are fast and agile for there size, meaning they are able to spread damage better than IS Mechs, you can customize with omnipods meaning that you can mount almost any weapon loadout you have tonnage for.

compare that to IS Mechs with the possibility to chose if you want Endo, Fero, DHS, and a choice of engine sizes, taking the XL is high risk because if one side goes so does the Mech. you can adjust engine size/type for more tonnage for weapons, however IS weapons tend to be heavier. due to fixed hardpoints weapons loadouts are more restrictive.

there is nothing wrong with sticking to one side or playing both.

#4 The Basilisk

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:19 AM

Even if lots of Clanners do brawl anyway in pugs, your unbelivable and overlording advantage is you get around 1,2 to 1,5 times more dmg per tonn installed weaponry in Clanmechs at higher range and more heat dissipation ability due to smaler heatsinks.
There is no need to go in close, if you dont want to. Your optimal combat range is around 400m with Clans while that of IS is mostly around 250 to 300m. ( yea many Mechs have a higher weaponsrange )
This gives you a much larger tactical flexibility and with most clan mechs beeing faster and more mobile than IS every Clanmech piloted correctly can outmaneuver and outgun an IS oponent by at least 20 %
While your weapons do run hotter than IS you also can load more heatsinks. ( So your time periods between a full heatload and your next is shorter than with most comparable IS Mechs )

Edited by The Basilisk, 29 August 2015 - 01:21 AM.


#5 B L O O D W I T C H

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:11 AM

their design is just plain sexy?

#6 Takashi Uchida

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:36 AM

Blue HUD, yellow lasers, do I need to go on?

Range and weight efficiency, basically. Clan lasers can reach out and touch IS mechs so that big slow Atlas will already be pretty roughed up by the time it gets in range. Clan streaks have stupidly long range. If you give a monkey a Stormcrow with a bunch of streak missiles he will get 400 damage easy, lol.

In terms of tweaking, I'd think that being able to swap omnipods around actually makes for more options? Though I admit (and this might just because I spend so much more time in IS mechs), that the amount of combinations that are actually effective, even in casual gameplay, is smaller than I want to think it is.

For me, I just prefer the feel of IS mechs. I like to keep my groupings fairly simple, and the clan ghost heat rules are a little more strict. I like the single-shot IS ballistic, and the ability to fire 3 LPL and as many MPL as I want without an additional heat penalty. But that's just personal gameplay preference. Like IS mechs, some clan mechs have better hitboxes and survivability than others. The Stormcrow and Arctic Cheetah are notoriously hard to kill.

#7 mailin

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:53 AM

The Arctic Cheetah is a great little mech . . . for now. It will still be really good once PGi makes some adjustments, but for now they are really tough to take down. Clan mechs are fairly well-balanced for the most part. As far as their quirks go, we were actually surprised that clan mechs got any quirks at all, so be glad for what they do have.

#8 Leone

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 02:58 AM

Don't Do it, It's a Trap!

Seriously, at first, after a hard fight defending the FRR from yet another incursion, when your sitting in your base looking at that perfectly good (read cored, but not destroyed) Nova that some pilot ejected from, you might think 'Yeah, I can do this, what'll it hurt?'

And at first it'll be great, all blazing away with superior medium lasers.

But then, next thing you know, your striding through the battlefield, leaving a heap of strewn battlemechs behind you, and when you actually stop to check out the base your tromping through, only then do you notice the burning flags of the FRR behind you, and realize that somehow you got a Smoke Jag insignia on your mech!

Stay pure while you can good Mechwarrior, for the lure of the clan is strong, and many have already succumbed.

~Leone.

#9 mailin

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:03 AM

Once I had my clan mechs mastered, in most cases I sold all the variants but one. No point in keeping them around if you're able to build duplicates. Now for drop decks . . . that's a different story.

#10 mailin

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:13 AM

I have 6 clan small pulse and 4 mgs on my Nova build. Between the TC 2 and the range quirks the range isn't too bad and the crits are SWEET. I can tickle out to almost 400m. Great mech and not too terribly hot either.

Edited by mailin, 29 August 2015 - 03:22 AM.


#11 dragnier1

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:33 AM

View PostRogue Jedi, on 29 August 2015 - 12:51 AM, said:

things to consider, the Clan XL can survive loosing a side, the IS XL cannot

Simple explanation here :

3 engine crits = destroyed.
IS side torso - 3 engine slots
Clan side torso - 2 engine slots

#12 Rear Admiral Tier 6

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:36 AM

if you want to have fun while piloting clan mechs,you have 2 options;Summoner and Gargoyle

both are fun as hell to pilot,and sometimes even effective

#13 JonahGrimm

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 03:54 AM

*waves a hand, instigating the Jedi Mind trick*

Yes. Ignore the shadow cats. They are terrible mechs. You don't want to shoot me, you want to shoot other people. I am not a danger. My mech is awful. ignoooooore the shadow cats, ayup.



... in all seriousness, clan mechs and IS mechs both have their advantages and disadvantages; neither broad group is an instant 'i win' button, and most of the chassis people decry as 'bad' are generally just not a mech that fits their playstyle.

My SHC variants are my favorite mechs... but my Ravens and blackjacks come a close second. It's all about what makes sense for your own style.

Me? I like fast mechs with high hardpoints and low face time. The SHC (built around the idea of 'I have one big gun, and a couple of support weapons) and BJ series are perfect. My ravens tend to be brawlers, using fast-firing medium and MPL stacks and srms to shoot and scoot for the same effect.

If you're more of a laser person than I am? These mechs won't be nearly as much fun for you - but then, I don't like Timberwolves, despite recognizing them as a threat - too much face time, too high-priority a target.

Everybody's got different ideas, different strengths, and different personal capabilities.

#14 Nightshade24

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 05:14 AM

Welcome to clans, 50% of the mechs are underpowered, 25% of them are on forum rage on if they are OP, UP, sh*t/ cr*p, or godly/new top dog. 20% of them are kinda meh and only have a few redeaming features that match they up with half fo the IS mechs, and then 5% that are quite good on par with the top IS mechs but do not be surprised that LBX, LRM, Flamer, Small laser, ER PPC, SRM, or UAC 20, MG quirk you really wanted on your fave clan 'high end mech' comes around in the next patch as a overall energy nerf (in a way nerfing flamers, tags, etc... ) and possibly missile spread increase or what have you to ballance 1 meta build out but destroys the rest, a few months of forum rage later and backlash they cut those quirks down a bit but you still left there with your wanting of possitive quirks for weapons that won't make the mech more OP at all and in some cases would make the meta not that good.


Then you go look at the IS mecsh and some mech got there 30% heat reduced laser vomit got reduced to a 28% as a 'heavy nerf' and got there missiles heavily buffed as a counter-ballance and you are sitting there thinking "that damn this barely changed and is still in the possitive and it got a counter-ballance?!?!". Then you sit there for the next few months woundering why did you ever decide wasting C-bills on a clan omnimech and then the clan battlemechs will be released where they have a high potentual of ballance and stuff and everyone is happy while you are sitting there with a stripped timberwolf where all of it's components are sold and awaiting a new build when you can finally enjoy the timberwolf for being a timberwolf and not a Supernova wanna be.


PS: Shadowcat is good. ignore the people who can't use gauss rifles without 20 tons of laser vomit behind it!! :ph34r:

#15 Zelumbras

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 05:46 AM

If i had to say which is better between clan and IS 'mechs, i would say that the clan ones are overall stronger and better at range while most of the IS 'mechs each have just one or two things they do exceptionally well.


Regarding the 'mechs you own, i can add a few more specific things from my own experience:
Ebon Jaguar:
A real beast and one of the most powerful 'mechs in my opinion! Still, being only 65t heavy, it has limited armor and vulnerable side torsi so positioning and torso twisting to spread damage are very important. Here are two of the builds i run with the EBJ (Note: armor distribution is relatively similar but not exactly what i run):
EBJ-A 3 UAC-5 + 3 ERML
EBJ-PRIME 2 LPL + 4 ERML
The latter version is what people have decided to call "Laservomit" and is aslo a popular build used on the Timberwolf. But for the EBJ, it's just a perfect fit with not a single slot or ton wasted - oh, and also the small matter of being able to fit 25 DHS and a TC-1.
The first version is very powerful with basically the same weapon loadout as the (formerly?) well known CTF-IM is/was often being used. It is fast and strong but a bit limited on ammo so you should better have good aim.

Arctic Cheetah:
Arguably the best clan light and one of the best lights in general. Slightly more damage than a Commando but more durable, great jumping power and ECM. Not much more to say about it!

Shadow Cat:
If it had the ability to equip 6+ Energy weapons, build diversity overall would go down massively - which probably is one of the reasons that i cannot do that. It took me a while to find the right spot for this 'mech but it is certainly very strong!
In terms of gameplay, i use it in a similar way as i use my Blackjacks: as fire support and for hit and run tactics.
Compared to the Blackjacks, the SHC has less firepower but more mobility due to MASC and a boatload of JJ.
Two of my most successful builds are 2 LPL + 1 ERML and 3 Streak-6 + 2 MPL. I play it mostly as fire/ECM support for assaults or to hunt down wounded 'mechs, both of which it does really well!

#16 Rawnblaed

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 11:34 AM

View PostTheRAbbi, on 28 August 2015 - 10:14 PM, said:

First, they're just plain BETTER. (With regard to the Shadow Cat, ignore that assertion. SHC is crap, for the most part.)

Also, I see you bought the same package I did. 'Grats, bruh! The EBJ is a GREAT heavy, and the ACH is arguably the game's best light mech.

EBJ hasn't gotten a quirk pass yet, by the way. It MAY get some fine tuning with quirks in the future.

Okay, to your concerns with Clan mechs. FIRST, XL engines. UNLIKE with IS mechs, the Clan mechs can't be destroyed by knocking out a side torso with an XL engine in it. Nope. Blow off the right torso in that EBJ, and those three energy hardpoints in your left torso (as well as the engine itself) are still intact and in the fight.

With Clan tech, everything in smaller and/or lighter. So no, you DON'T usually need those extra side torso critical slots. An XL engine consuming two of them doesn't really stop you mounting anything. I have one of my three EBJs outfitted with a gauss rifle in the RT.

Oh, and speaking of torsos (and specifically, torso omnipods), they're automatically CASE-equipped at no tonnage/slot penalty. So load up on guns, bring your friends. Well, ammo. (Nirvana moment.)


Thanks for all the input. I happen to like the SHC. It was the first reason I bought the package i did. The second was the EBJ. It was one of my favorite MW3/4 mechs. Gauss rifle on legs...+1 if you like to be a sneaky hit an run even if its a bit squishy. The ACH was just extra but it looks great in hindsight and has been the last mech standing in more pugs than i can remember.
Didn't remember that bit about the xl engines and the side torsos. Thanks. And C.A.S.E. on every clan mech? If that's the case I dont feel so bad about not having leg slots for my ammo like my IS mechs. Happy day.

View PostVulcan888, on 29 August 2015 - 05:46 AM, said:



Ebon Jaguar:
A real beast and one of the most powerful 'mechs in my opinion! Still, being only 65t heavy, it has limited armor and vulnerable side torsi so positioning and torso twisting to spread damage are very important. Here are two of the builds i run with the EBJ (Note: armor distribution is relatively similar but not exactly what i run):
EBJ-A 3 UAC-5 + 3 ERML
EBJ-PRIME 2 LPL + 4 ERML
The latter version is what people have decided to call "Laservomit" and is aslo a popular build used on the Timberwolf. But for the EBJ, it's just a perfect fit with not a single slot or ton wasted - oh, and also the small matter of being able to fit 25 DHS and a TC-1.
The first version is very powerful with basically the same weapon loadout as the (formerly?) well known CTF-IM is/was often being used. It is fast and strong but a bit limited on ammo so you should better have good aim.

Shadow Cat:
If it had the ability to equip 6+ Energy weapons, build diversity overall would go down massively - which probably is one of the reasons that i cannot do that. It took me a while to find the right spot for this 'mech but it is certainly very strong!
In terms of gameplay, i use it in a similar way as i use my Blackjacks: as fire support and for hit and run tactics.
Compared to the Blackjacks, the SHC has less firepower but more mobility due to MASC and a boatload of JJ.
Two of my most successful builds are 2 LPL + 1 ERML and 3 Streak-6 + 2 MPL. I play it mostly as fire/ECM support for assaults or to hunt down wounded 'mechs, both of which it does really well!

i like your laser vomit EBJ. I'll have to try it. I run the same thing almost. EBJ 2lpl + 6erml

I like my HBK's too for IS mechs and have the whole IIc collection on order. Sure Ill have IS questions in December.

#17 Mazzyplz

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 12:57 PM

you say the shadowcat is bad?

i have seen sean lang from ngng use a poptart with 2lpl to make like 800 dmg.
it is a beast;

this is how i would build it, not 2lpl or 2lpl+ermed...

instead, 3 erlarge

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ec7023ac42fd3f2

this is like the clan's cicada 3m ecm - except this mech has masc and can fly (and clan xl)
with any useful mods this is a terrific poptart, instead the inner sphere is stuck with cicada for doing similar things with it's terrible inner sphere xl engine and inability to poptart - clanners complain too much sometimes!
they wouldn't fare better by building an inner sphere mechs if their building skills aren't that good to begin with

the 3 large ecm cicada is a perfectly good mech for the inner sphere, i have done 500+ dmg in it easy, numerous times, and the clan equivalent to it is flat out better.

i am not sure why the clanners always complain if their tech isn't 150% better, 145% better won't do, it seems.

the ebon jag is one of the most powerful chassis in the game, along with hellbringer, and arctic cheetah for the clans. but other mechs like timberwolf can be really good, and even shadowcat or summoner can be deadly if built right


so don't sell the ebon jag if you have bought it already.

Edited by Mazzyplz, 29 August 2015 - 01:09 PM.


#18 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 29 August 2015 - 01:03 PM

I keep one EBJ build for laser vomit.

Another for Gauss vomit.

A third for lotsa dakka (3x UAC/5).

So far, I've been leveling all the ACHs the same way, with 5x cSPL and ECM and a spare DHS. Works pretty well for me.

I haven't found anything I particularly like with the SHC yet. Just not enough weapon hardpoints to make it versatile. Sure, there are Gauss and UAC builds that some folks like, and that's cool. I'd pay cash for a variant that lets me mount a whole five energy weapons, but it's just not out there. (LPL and 4x ERML would be pretty swell, atop ECM and the other goodies.)

Spreading out into mechs you don't have yet, but that are clan, we have two MUST-HAVE mechs: Storm Crow and Timber Wolf. SCR can run some of the same (or nearly so) laser vomit builds as the EBJ, just a little lighter and faster (97.2 kph before tweak). TBR can run the same or even heavier, with more armor AND JJs, at the same speeds as EBJ.

And of course there's the Whale.

Hellbringer is pretty good, and boasts ECM as well. Nova has some cool builds with LOTS of hardpoints. There are some decent Adder builds out there that capitalize on the relative abundance of available tonnage for a light mech.

The coming Origins IIC (Clan non-omni battlemechs) package will be VERY interesting to watch. I'm personally quite interested in a HBK toting two UAC/20s and JJs, all Clan tech.

Enjoy!

#19 Nitaihatr2

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 12:39 AM

well then it's decided for me thanks to you guys, i wanna start with caln and see how it goes. what are some good first buy havey/assult clan mechs?

#20 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 01:43 AM

View PostNitaihatr2, on 31 August 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

well then it's decided for me thanks to you guys, i wanna start with caln and see how it goes. what are some good first buy havey/assult clan mechs?


each Mech handles diferantly, so what is great for someone else may not be for youany Clan heavy except the Summoner is pretty good, but the most popular are the Timber Wolf and Helbringer (Timby because it is probably the most powerful Mech in the game but bear in mind that also means you have to be a bit more careful because there are few Mechs that are higher priority targets for the enemy than the Timby, Helbringer because of ECM)


here is a breakdown with my opinions on each Mech

Heavies

Timber Wolf, extremely versatile, can jump, most armor and second most free tonnage of the Clan Heavies (27.5 tones free with max armor)

Summoner: only a few hardpoints, less upgrades and fixed jumpjets means relatively low tonnage for weapons (20.7 tones free with max armor)

Ebon Jaguar, some very high mounted weapons, the most tonnage for weapons of the Clan Heavies (28.5 tonnes free with max armor), not as tanky as the others, one of only 3 Clan Mechs currently available which are able to practically mount multiple large ballistic weapons with max armor

Hellbringer, ECM, some high mounted hardpoints, can be configured for almost any role (23.3 tons free with max armor)

Mad Dog, if you want lots of missiles this is probably the Mech you are looking for (26.3 tonnes free with max armor)


Assualts

Dire Wolf, really slow and sluggish but has 50.3 tonnes free after max armor. the most heavily armed Mech in the game but mostly helpless if any other Mech manages to get close, best used with friends

Warhawk, faster and less heavily armed than the Dire Wolf, but its higher speed means it is more able to handle other Mechs which get close, has lots of fixed heatsinks so great for a few large energy weapons, also makes a fairly good missile boat (32.3 tones free with max armor)

Gargoyle, same speed and agility as the Clan Heavies, limited space/tonnage for weapons, can mount a lot of energy weapons (19.6 tonnes free with max armor)

Executioner, MASC, allows the Mech acceleration and agility comparable to much smaller Mechs for a short time, it can also jump, (24.7 tones free with max armor

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 31 August 2015 - 01:58 AM.






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