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A Word Of Advice, Please.


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#41 N0D

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 10:48 PM

Okay, from reading all this i totally understood one thing: my plans for grind right to *something* from the start are waaaay tooo optimistic, and i should improve my HBK for now. How about this HBK-4P? Single LPL with its puny range isn't good for any sniping, but will suffice for poking and drawing (oh so unwanted) attention, which may be a good thing. Then 4 MPL's should finish the job... hopefully. I have 4-button mouse, so i can group *1*- both arms, *2*- hunch mediums, and *3*- large pulse on its own, to fire at long (not really:() range.
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...Or should i just start a new account and receive fresh unspent 7,983,000 C-Bills from cadet bonus and be a bit closer to something useful? Though i still don't know, what exactly i want.

#42 Kmieciu

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Posted 31 August 2015 - 11:20 PM

View PostN0D, on 31 August 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

Okay, from reading all this i totally understood one thing: my plans for grind right to *something* from the start are waaaay tooo optimistic, and i should improve my HBK for now. How about this HBK-4P? Single LPL with its puny range isn't good for any sniping, but will suffice for poking and drawing (oh so unwanted) attention, which may be a good thing. Then 4 MPL's should finish the job... hopefully. I have 4-button mouse, so i can group *1*- both arms, *2*- hunch mediums, and *3*- large pulse on its own, to fire at long (not really:() range.
.
.
.
...Or should i just start a new account and receive fresh unspent 7,983,000 C-Bills from cadet bonus and be a bit closer to something useful? Though i still don't know, what exactly i want.

Believe me when I say, that an XL laser sniper Hunchback has a lower life expectancy than a Raven. And the XL engine is more expensive than the mech itself. The champion loadout is truly the best for a new player. If you want to snipe, buy Grid Iron.

Edited by Kmieciu, 31 August 2015 - 11:20 PM.


#43 bayoucowboy

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 12:05 AM

Agree with Kmieciu. Everyone's going to aim for the hunch, and an XL will mean death. Really more of a skirmisher chassis. If real $ are available, the GI is what you're looking for. Another idea is a 4LL Thunderbolt 5SS (range quirk 25%), I use this in CW to snipe Clan mechs and pretty tough in a brawl, or the old double gauss Jagermech

#44 Luscious Dan

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 07:40 AM

View Postbayoucowboy, on 01 September 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

Agree with Kmieciu. Everyone's going to aim for the hunch, and an XL will mean death. Really more of a skirmisher chassis. If real $ are available, the GI is what you're looking for. Another idea is a 4LL Thunderbolt 5SS (range quirk 25%), I use this in CW to snipe Clan mechs and pretty tough in a brawl, or the old double gauss Jagermech


5SS is really damn good. My TDR-5SS uses 5xMPL and 2xLL (in the high right torso mount) to good effect. With range module on the LL and cooldown on the MPL, it does solid dps and the LL do full damage at 600m. Standard 275 engine is also affordable, reasonably fast, and lets you tank. Realistically you can use either side of the mech as a shield side to keep yourself alive; 3xMPL on the left is enough to work with and so is 2xLL 2xMPL on the right side.

Last night the on Terra Therma for example, we had mechs all surround the middle but nobody was willing to go in. Half the team fell back so they couldn't even cover the ramps in and out of middle. When the enemy made a push I retreated using my left side as a shield. It worked, and was able to kill 3 mechs in the endgame with the weapons I had left. Halfway through the match we were down 5-7, but ended up winning with 3-4 mechs standing. I thought we were going to get stomped :)

Anyway, a Hunchy is often built to do the same thing, give up its left side to keep the hunch weapons intact. Can't do that with an XL engine.

#45 Spleenslitta

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:19 AM

View PostN0D, on 31 August 2015 - 10:48 PM, said:

...Or should i just start a new account and receive fresh unspent 7,983,000 C-Bills from cadet bonus and be a bit closer to something useful? Though i still don't know, what exactly i want.

Don't start a fresh account. Especially if you want to stick with the Hunchback.
I'll echo Dan and Cowboy's advice about XL engines in Hunchie's. Please don't do it. I love XL engines but even i would not put one in a Hunchie.
It is probably one of the mechs that's worst suited for XL engines in the entire game.

#46 N0D

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:46 AM

View PostSpleenslitta, on 01 September 2015 - 08:19 AM, said:

Don't start a fresh account. Especially if you want to stick with the Hunchback.

I DON'T want to stick with the HBK - that is the real problem here, because of which i'm in doubt. Clan mechs and everything clan'ish seems superior, thats why i asked about Stormcrow and Dire Wolf in the first place. I bought Hunchie because it looked cheap and laser oriented, which sort of suits my style, but i'll certainly won't master him. I think.

Ok, seriously, this is my last attempt on a HBK laser build, which i would consider using as a grinding platform: HBK-4P 3LPL's (2 on arms for better vertical movement and one on the high hunch), 250 STD engine with internal 10 double HS. 600-700 is exactly my comfortable range, and i'll just stick around my lancemates in hopes that they'll deal with swarming L.mechs.
What do you lot say to this?

#47 Luscious Dan

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 08:59 AM

I'd try it, it's different from what people expect (which can be a good thing sometimes). Looks like a mini TDR-9SE.

Speaking of which, maybe take the TDR-9SE(C) trial mech out for a spin. It's really similar to how I run mine (I use STD 285 and one fewer DHS to mount a total of 3 jump jets; I like the extra mobility). I definitely recommend Thuds, the 5SS and 9SE are the hotness. Not sure what third variant I would recommend but the chassis is solid.

Clan tech is generally quite good, but has downsides for sure (locked engine size, long beam duration, high heat, etc.). Some IS tech is definitely just as good, and I have to say my Thunderbolts have better stats than my Mad Cats and Ebon Jaguars.

#48 Spleenslitta

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 09:06 AM

View PostLuscious Dan, on 01 September 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

I'd try it, it's different from what people expect (which can be a good thing sometimes). Looks like a mini TDR-9SE.

Speaking of which, maybe take the TDR-9SE(C) trial mech out for a spin. It's really similar to how I run mine (I use STD 285 and one fewer DHS to mount a total of 3 jump jets; I like the extra mobility). I definitely recommend Thuds, the 5SS and 9SE are the hotness. Not sure what third variant I would recommend but the chassis is solid.

Clan tech is generally quite good, but has downsides for sure (locked engine size, long beam duration, high heat, etc.). Some IS tech is definitely just as good, and I have to say my Thunderbolts have better stats than my Mad Cats and Ebon Jaguars.

Dan said it in just a few lines....i'd given you big textwall. My experience with IS versus Clan tech is the same as Dan's.
BTW. You said 600-700 meters is your comfortable range? LPL's don't do much damage at that range. Mostly just boiling paint away.

#49 TWIAFU

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 09:18 AM

View PostAppogee, on 31 August 2015 - 09:46 AM, said:

Oh, 'camping' you mean.

It tends to get teams killed in MWO because, either:

a. the enemy focus fire on the available targets, while you're busy hiding and not shooting. After they've killed a couple of us, their advantage in numbers snowballs. When the rest of us are dead, they come and easily kill you ... and we all lose together.

or

b. A couple of Lights spot you sniping, flank the main battle, come up behind and kill you. Then while they're at the back, they take us out from the back.

So, don't be that guy, costing your team the match, or making us carry you.

Mechwarrior is a team game. Teams that move and shoot together win. You have plenty of armor and you can take some hits. Use cover intelligently. Move with our team and shoot what we're shooting to give us the strength of numbers.

And don't camp at the back because that will just make it harder for you - and the team - to win.


Best advice so far.

Playing as a loner in a group and team centric game is doing a disservice to the 11 others on your team and hamstringing yourself before you even drop.

We all see that "loner" that can't or won't play with the team be the last one alive. Usually undamaged and way in the rear of the battle. Now that the "loner" is left and facing 12 mechs. This is when we all have seen that "loner" run away from any enemy. We all watch them backing up in a straight line firing, suicide by leg damage, shut down, DC, or just make a b-line for out of bounds.

Don't be a "loner" in a group and team focused game unless you really do enjoy the lowest common denominator of gaming. And MWO can and is much more then that - IF you want it to be.

Ask yourself, do you want to play on a team with 11 others that play just like you? All playing alone and for themselves?

#50 Spleenslitta

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 09:29 AM

View PostTWIAFU, on 01 September 2015 - 09:18 AM, said:


Best advice so far.

Playing as a loner in a group and team centric game is doing a disservice to the 11 others on your team and hamstringing yourself before you even drop.

We all see that "loner" that can't or won't play with the team be the last one alive. Usually undamaged and way in the rear of the battle. Now that the "loner" is left and facing 12 mechs. This is when we all have seen that "loner" run away from any enemy. We all watch them backing up in a straight line firing, suicide by leg damage, shut down, DC, or just make a b-line for out of bounds.

Don't be a "loner" in a group and team focused game unless you really do enjoy the lowest common denominator of gaming. And MWO can and is much more then that - IF you want it to be.

Ask yourself, do you want to play on a team with 11 others that play just like you? All playing alone and for themselves?

N0D all i'll say is this. Find a style of play that you find fun and stick with it. As long as you do you will be rewarded in the long run.
Take me for example. When i started out with my weird playingstyle i got slaughtered for about 1 month....now that is no longer the case.

It's all about adapting your playingstyle till it works. Being a dedicated sniper mech that supports the team from long range is fully possible.
You can safely just ignore anyone who says you're never going to be any good like that.

#51 Spleenslitta

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 09:58 AM

About the "loner" part. Don't worry too much about that either. It's true that "loners" have less stable playingstyles but that does not necessarily mean we're useless.

You can bait enemies into ambushes and make entire lances come after you on a wild goose chase if you play your cards right.
When you make an entire enemy lance look frequently and nervously behind themselves because they know your hunting them your team takes less damage because of it.
Sure they might send light mechs to hunt you down. But guess what...You can avoid them through using your smarts.

I gave you a lot of hints on how to do it in my guide. Most players seems to think i'm just bragging or just outright lying.
The only way you can find out to read the guide and try doing it for a week or two. Or figure out how to do it on your own.

I used to be a member of the Black Sabres before it dissolved (our leaders had a falling out of some kind while i was taking a break from MWO).
They fully accepted and approved of my lone ranger stunts. "Spleen is on the prowl again" they said and there was no dissapproval in their voices at all.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 01 September 2015 - 09:59 AM.


#52 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 01:19 PM

View PostN0D, on 01 September 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

I DON'T want to stick with the HBK - that is the real problem here, because of which i'm in doubt. Clan mechs and everything clan'ish seems superior, thats why i asked about Stormcrow and Dire Wolf in the first place. I bought Hunchie because it looked cheap and laser oriented, which sort of suits my style, but i'll certainly won't master him. I think.


start a new account then and buy a hellbringer or a stormcrow as your first mech

#53 Rogue Jedi

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 01:46 PM

View PostN0D, on 01 September 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

I DON'T want to stick with the HBK - that is the real problem here, because of which i'm in doubt. Clan mechs and everything clan'ish seems superior, thats why i asked about Stormcrow and Dire Wolf in the first place. I bought Hunchie because it looked cheap and laser oriented, which sort of suits my style, but i'll certainly won't master him. I think.

Ok, seriously, this is my last attempt on a HBK laser build, which i would consider using as a grinding platform: HBK-4P 3LPL's (2 on arms for better vertical movement and one on the high hunch), 250 STD engine with internal 10 double HS. 600-700 is exactly my comfortable range, and i'll just stick around my lancemates in hopes that they'll deal with swarming L.mechs.
What do you lot say to this?


you could always create a new account, play with the trials until you have got the full cadet bonus (you should be at about 10 mil) then buy something like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b26da3699dc97f3
it has the 2 Clan ERLarge Lasers you wanted for long range work, 6 ERSL for short to medium range work, the ERSL is almost as good as the IS ML, excapt only half the weight. also if you stick to just the Large or Small lasers it will run pretty cool, it would take more than a minute to overheat on most maps from firing just the ERLLs, and 27 seconds to overheat from continuously firing the ERSLs.

that would allow you to test out your CERLLs without a long wait to earn the cbills, and there is nothing to stop you using both accounts, 1 Clan account and 1 IS account

edit:
as for the Hunchback build, try it. it looks OK to me

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 01 September 2015 - 01:50 PM.


#54 MechWarrior3671771

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM

Ya know, while I agree with the "loners hurt the team" advice, if you enjoy that playstyle, go ahead and have fun with it. Odds are you will be in my tier or less, and quite frankly there are all kinds of Stupid going on, so its not like it will hurt your team that much.

#55 JonahGrimm

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 03:23 PM

For every playstyle, there are a dozen people telling you you're wrong for enjoying it. Ugh.

Okay, here's the thing: You're using lasers, and that's great - but ERPPCs are great fun to use at long range, Gauss is fantastic for ranged fighting, and AC2/5/10 are incredibly useful at most engagement ranges. Don't sell yourself out of these weapons just because they're hard to use now - I /hated/ PPCs for the longest time, and now they're my favorite system.

That said - if lasers are your thing, laser away! The beautiful part about MWO is that your style is yours, and you can - if you figure it out -make it work startlingly well.

I will say this: you started in hunchies, and you're not interested in hunchies. So sell it, and treat yourself to some premium time to make up the difference. Keep the engine and the weapons (just in case you can use it somewhere else) and focus on the mech you really want. It's your game - play it how you want to play it.

#56 JC Daxion

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 04:14 PM

I wouldn't put ferro fiber on a 4P, you loose to much space which are needed for heat sinks... Also 3LPL's are just to heavy IMO for a 55 ton mech

A large laser HBK, You can also swap the 4 mediums for 4 small pulse

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3bba07722d33847



the classic 4P, they run hot, and fast.. I'd gather a bit like a clanner.. High alpha, great speed, which you need to use it while you get in and out of cover. This mech like many will teach you about heat management, another thing you are going to have to learn if you wan't to get good at playing clan energy builds..

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c44673a11bb5978

I'll keep my advice the same,. get 2 more HBK's and atleast unlock elites. HBK's make a giant leap especially the 4P with it's heat issues.. Something you will have in tons of mechs before unlocking elites. You don't know a mech till it get's elites 80% of the time. You will say how much the mech sucks, then like magic the thing wakes up and turns into a killing machine..



View PostFenrisulvyn, on 01 September 2015 - 02:27 PM, said:

Ya know, while I agree with the "loners hurt the team" advice, if you enjoy that playstyle, go ahead and have fun with it. Odds are you will be in my tier or less, and quite frankly there are all kinds of Stupid going on, so its not like it will hurt your team that much.



haha, that's funny, but good advice.. Honestly, at the lower end, and learning, you have to remember, there are kids, young and old.. some can't aim, some have trouble seeing, some are just messing around trying things, ect..

It is a game, and people forget that the most important part is having fun. And you are right about that, if you are in lower tiers, complaining about play is not something you should be doing. Helping others get better is part of it for vets, but for some, just barley being able to hit the broad side of a barn is good as they ever will be. That is partly why LRM's actually help some players!


Like me for example, many builds i run aren't meta, or alpha loaded, pin-point ect.. But when you are playing with many other like minded players, it ends up balancing out. You get LRM's you get SRM's, you get guys that cycle weapons verse Alpha camp ect.. It's a different style and one i prefer.. Thankfully the new PSR system didn't keep me at the top tier to long with that meta, I was not having fun. Maybe i could play it with some practice, but i think my twitch skills may be lacking a bit at the top's of the tops.. But honestly i don't find getting gaussed to death every match much fun either.. :P

For me, i like to think of myself a pretty good middle of the road player, and that works for me. There are lots of people in this level, and really it can be tons of fun. Some of us will never be an E-sports pro, but that is not the only way to have fun thankfully.

Edited by JC Daxion, 01 September 2015 - 04:24 PM.


#57 Kmieciu

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 10:34 PM

Lasers are easy and fun, but nothing is as rewarding as seeing a Gauss slug hitting the exact spot you were aiming for.

#58 N0D

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Posted 01 September 2015 - 10:48 PM

Holy Kerensky! I just discovered THE quintessence of all sniping thing: CDA-3C
The loadout usefulness is, well, hard to evaluate properly, because it's single ERPPC plus low ammo AC/2 for backup, almost no armor, no jets, and what seems like a lingering problems with heat. However! Just look at those quirks:
TORSO TURN RATE (YAW): 10.00 %
TURN RATE (LOW SPEED): 10.00 %
TURN RATE (MED SPEED): 10.00 %
TURN RATE (HIGH SPEED): 10.00 %
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (LL): 10.00
ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE (RL): 10.00
ER PPC HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 %
ENERGY HEAT GENERATION: -25.00 %
ER PPC COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ENERGY COOLDOWN: 12.50 %
ER PPC VELOCITY: 50.00 %
BALLISTIC COOLDOWN: 12.50 %

What the heck? -50% heat, 25% cooldown, and +50% velocity... Total stats for ERPPC on this monster are: 7.5 heat per shot (without firing AC/2 heat eff is ~70-80% i believe), with 3 seconds cooldown (less then large laser), while projectile speed (1800) is such, that it travels almost instantly at the optimal range of 810 - about 0,45 second between release and impact. Sure, 10 damage at best isn't that much, but this CDA-3C can fire it once in 3 sec without overheat, putting on some noticable pressure on enemy team, forcing them into cover. Do you think its viable in any way?

Edited by N0D, 01 September 2015 - 10:50 PM.


#59 bad arcade kitty

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 02:28 AM

removing leg armor on cicada, especially so much, is a terrible idea, removing torso armor is a bad idea too

1 ppc and for instance 4 mg like this http://mwo.smurfy-ne...841f8c19b53739e

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 02 September 2015 - 02:30 AM.


#60 dragnier1

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Posted 02 September 2015 - 05:26 AM

Is the hunchback you own your first ever mech? If so, and if you don't have much gxp, you can go ahead and create a new account. Gxp is about the hardest to earn right now.

A word of caution though, your performance and/or cash flow issues might not go away even if you start a new account. After all it's a new account and once you purchase and upgrade your first mech you're out of cash (and you'll take some time to firm up your gameplay if it's performance issues).

None the less if you have fun, it's good.



Personally i'd prefer if you worked on your current account and accumulate gxp. You can always sell that hunchback once you have the cash for the other chassis you're aiming for. Just don't buy XLS engines (they cost 2-3 times standard engines)

Edited by dragnier1, 02 September 2015 - 05:27 AM.






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