89 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

In TT ultra weapons never do double the damge because they miss more than half the time fired giving them an average damage of 1.454545 * base damage.

However unless random spread is present I can see both rounds easily conecting during a head on merg.

An AC-10 with one ton of ammo is nearly the same cost as an UAC-5 with one ton. The UAC-5 is lighter, cooler and takes up less crits. We also know that minimum range is going out the window for autocannons. Why should I put an AC-10 in any custom design?

The only way I could see to make both weapons competitive is to play up the jamming risk on the ultras or reduce the firing rate of ultras to match their effective TT damage which would be between the AC-5 and AC-10.


Thoughts?

Edited by Spheroid, 08 July 2012 - 10:47 PM.

[Future Perfect]

Well, it should make the regular AC-5 extinct anyway.

[Vulpesveritas]

ammo costs cbills? damage spread? knockback?

Edited by Vulpesveritas, 08 July 2012 - 10:45 PM.

[Nik Van Rhijn]

AC10 is not something I would use with the choice between LB10X and UAC5 other than on cost grounds if it was a major weapon. i can see it being used in a "cheap" mechbuild for when you need to make up C-bills to repair/run your more high-tech builds.

[Spheroid]

Vulpesveritas, on 08 July 2012 - 10:44 PM, said:

ammo costs cbills? damage spread? knockback?

206,000 C-bills vs. 209,000 C-bills is minor noise in the overall cost of a mech. If your aim is true those two shots are going to double tap the same body segment.

[Koshadows]

Spheroid, on 08 July 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

In TT ultra weapons never do double the damge because they miss more than half the time fired giving them an average damage of 1.454545 * base damage.

However unless random spread is present I can see both rounds easily conecting during a head on merg.

I don't know about that, seeing as during any other mech game, MWLL included, mechs doing head on attacks is common only by beginners who really tunnel visioned towards a target. Its a lot harder to actually land a second hit to the same area when using a rapid fire weapon.

Main example would be the UAC 20 from MWLL. The thing had a decent rate of fire, but getting those damn shells to hit the same torso that your first shell hit is hard as hell against anyone moving and especially lagging.

I think AC 10s would still have place in this game just because of the fact that landing one shell that does the damage of 2 ac5 in one area is better than trying to land 2 shells in the same area in the same time.

[Lucius Prospero]

Chews through ammo faster. But I see your point, I really can't make a strong case for the AC-10. They really need to do autocannons right in MWO. They should fire faster, but do less damage then they have in previous games. This ridiculous crap where they let loose all of their damage in half of a second isn't a fun way to fight.

[AlphaKale]

Lucius Prospero, on 08 July 2012 - 11:04 PM, said:

Chews through ammo faster. But I see your point, I really can't make a strong case for the AC-10. They really need to do autocannons right in MWO. They should fire faster, but do less damage then they have in previous games. This ridiculous crap where they let loose all of their damage in half of a second isn't a fun way to fight.

Indeed. Hopefully they can carefully balance the damage-per-second of ACs as compared to lasers to balance out the weapons. ACs are a bit of a risk; limited ammo means you can't waste your shots, but on the other hand they have less heat than lasers and *should* fire considerably faster. How much faster will be a critical game-balance element.

[Tincan Nightmare]

The real question is will the LBX-AC/10 make the standard AC/10 obsolete (and the Ultra AC/10 when it comes down the pipe later.) As others have stated it might not be the easiest thing to keep both shots from an Ultra hitting the same location, especially depending on how quickly it fires that second shot and if theres a pause inbetween rounds. I honestly have toyed around with the idea of freeing enough weight via double heat sinks to replace an AC/20 with dual Ultra AC/5's on my Atlas, getting more than double the range for the same total damage output, but will have to see how Ultra's perform first to see if it would result in scattering damage across the target.

[zudukai]

ac/10 //--// uac/5

alpha //--// time on target

//end thread.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Spheroid, on 08 July 2012 - 10:40 PM, said:

We also know that minimum range is going out the window for autocannons.

Says who?

[zudukai]

Xandre Blackheart, on 08 July 2012 - 11:22 PM, said:

Says who?

believe it. (every other MW game for example.)

[Thorgar Wulfson]

yeah and fortunately this crew seems to be following the TT better, no minimum range for AC's. also ultra's jam, AC's dont

you fire your two rounds, one misses one hits you do 5 damage.. and jam. I wail into you with an AC/10 (ppc damage) over and over and over.

[SushiMaker]

As to what I have seen in the vids hitting the same spot or the spot You would like might be difficult.
So it may come to a personal likeing, wether You like more damage spread out over the target or hard hitting weapon hopeing to land perfect shot "on the spot".
Eventually the gamer skill would be required to master Ultras and that would be the best case scenario.

[zudukai]

Thorgar Wulfson, on 08 July 2012 - 11:28 PM, said:

yeah and fortunately this crew seems to be following the TT better, no minimum range for AC's. also ultra's jam, AC's dont

you fire your two rounds, one misses one hits you do 5 damage.. and jam. I wail into you with an AC/10 (ppc damage) over and over and over.

huh? RAC's jam, not UAC's really...

[Tincan Nightmare]

zudukai, on 08 July 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

huh? RAC's jam, not UAC's really...

Well UAC's have a small chance of jamming, but what mystified me was that you could clear the jam on a RAC in the TT but couldn't for the UAC.

[Xandre Blackheart]

zudukai, on 08 July 2012 - 11:24 PM, said:

believe it. (every other MW game for example.)

I have seen posts that lead me to believe that minimum ranges are in for PPC's and LRM's.

It's not out of the question they will implement them for ballistics, especially the gauss rifle. Who knows, it may be how they decide to retain viability for the AC/10

[Der Zivilist]

If PGI is following tabletop stats, then the UAC/5 will probably have 1.5 times the RoF of the regular AC/5.

This is because the cluster hits table rules cannot be translated into a game with manual aiming. If they let the UAC/5 fire at twice the RoF of the regular AC/5, it would have twice the DPS, not roughly 1.5 times like it comes out after the cluster hits table rule in tabletop.


Also note that there's an availability concern here. It was explicitly stated that some equipment won't be as easy to obtain as others... so maybe (speculation) you first need a specific amount of loyalty points with them Davions before they'll agree to sell you their best Dakka.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

Ultra Autocannon

The Ultra AC 20 is the most devastating weapon a 'Mech can carry and is the primary armament of many Assault 'Mechs. Ultra autocannons weigh slightly more than standard ACs, but they have greater range and they can fire two shells/bursts at once, inflicting heavy damage with only moderate heat build-up. Unfortunately, the mechanism required to load the second shot/burtst is very complicated, and thus makes the system prone to jamming. The increased recoil involved in firing the weapon in 'ultra' mode, make hitting with both shots difficult, although still possible. They also chew through ammunition quickly. Still, they are good primary weapons and many mechwarriors fall in love with the 'burst fire' mode due to its devastating firepower.

if i could scan my rule book i would, the ultra jams on a roll of 2 making the gun useless for rest of game

Edited by Thorgar Wulfson, 08 July 2012 - 11:43 PM.

[zudukai]

Thorgar Wulfson, on 08 July 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

if i could scan my rule book

ahem... they are not bringing you BT Online...