257 replies to this topic

[DAYLEET]

LastKhan, on 25 October 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

How about no, unless we are able to interchange our engines on our omnimechs and introduce clan STD.

Now i get to spout some opinions.

Im completely opened to suggestions. The numbers of surviving cheeta with 1 ST and still a formidable fighting machine...

[LastKhan]

DAYLEET, on 25 October 2015 - 08:13 PM, said:

Im completely opened to suggestions. The numbers of surviving cheeta with 1 ST and still a formidable fighting machine...

I kinda did unless you stopped reading to that point. Im in favor of the idea that Clan mechs losing a ST should get a heat containment reduction or penalty since you have lost a portion of your heatsinks. But not to an extreme that cripples clan mechs all together. Also sweeping the legs (this is just me from my own personal skill and non lag issues) does wonders to stop that little boogeyman.

[SkippyT72]

Want to screw over clan mechs more, I'm ok with that BUT only if you remove the ability of the IS to use mech lab and make them take stock and varient mechs like the lore actually calls for. People paid more for Clan mechs for all kinds of reason, but the fact of the matter is the DID pay more real world cash and should not continue to be screwed over because some folks continue to rant about how un balanced this game is basically because they refuse to use teamwork and get better as a team. The IS quirks along with the limitations and crap added to clan tech have the game about as balanced as possible some clan mechs are better than some IS mechs, but then again some IS mechs are hands down better than IS mechs with all thier quirks, heck we have a Raven that hit out past a Clan er Lrg mech stock. so think about that a min before you continue to just throw numbers out there without adding in all the advantages that have been handed to IS mechs in range and heat quirks.

[DAYLEET]

LastKhan, on 25 October 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

I kinda did unless you stopped reading to that point.

I did, i was saying " yeah sure" with im "open to suggestion!" to STD in particular.

[LastKhan]

DAYLEET, on 25 October 2015 - 08:38 PM, said:

I did, i was saying " yeah sure" with im "open to suggestion!" to STD in particular.

Okay then. Well STD engines are going to come cause clan battlemechs are coming. I doubt PGI will unlock omnis or make what you said about making XLs= KO a reality. A better approach is out there.

I also said maybe just make all lasers do the same dmg overall (example being clan smalls do the same dmg as its IS counterpart and etc.) but weigh less for the clans. Then tweak them from there via heat and duration. That should make balancing slightly easier.

Edited by LastKhan, 25 October 2015 - 08:50 PM.

[AnimeFreak40K]

At this point, I am pretty well convinced that most of the folks who are complaining about Clan mechs' engines haven't actually played in a Clan mech other than maybe any trials that are out there.

If they did, they would notice that Clans lack a level of customization that IS has.

The way I see it, is that if Clan mechs were objectively better the way I hear some people complain and whine about them, I would see a LOT more Clan mechs running around.

The fact of the matter is, I don't. Yes, I see a lot of Arctic Cheetahs running around, but that's because the dammed things just came out for C-Bills not too long ago.

Seriously, before people start pitching a fit about how 'unfair' or 'OP' Clan mechs are, they should probably spend some time in the cockpit. Though I have a feeling that once they do, they'll see that Clan mechs aren't unfair or OP. Different? Yes. Require a different method of play to be successful? Certainly. Better? No. Not objectively so.

[LastKhan]

AnimeFreak40K, on 25 October 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

At this point, I am pretty well convinced that most of the folks who are complaining about Clan mechs' engines haven't actually played in a Clan mech other than maybe any trials that are out there.

If they did, they would notice that Clans lack a level of customization that IS has.

The way I see it, is that if Clan mechs were objectively better the way I hear some people complain and whine about them, I would see a LOT more Clan mechs running around.

The fact of the matter is, I don't. Yes, I see a lot of Arctic Cheetahs running around, but that's because the dammed things just came out for C-Bills not too long ago.

Seriously, before people start pitching a fit about how 'unfair' or 'OP' Clan mechs are, they should probably spend some time in the cockpit. Though I have a feeling that once they do, they'll see that Clan mechs aren't unfair or OP. Different? Yes. Require a different method of play to be successful? Certainly. Better? No. Not objectively so.

There are some strong factors with clan mechs mostly the big three plus cheetah (it involves many but these are the boogeymen). I was a star commander of CNCI and have played with clan mechs since their injection So i do have alot of experience with them. I believe there is some sort merit to the complaints. Yes, there are astronomical ideas and some that really are dumb or wont work in the current system or state of the game. I would rather try to find a common ground that wont just obsolete clan mechs.

Edited by LastKhan, 25 October 2015 - 09:44 PM.

[Nightshade24]

DAYLEET, on 25 October 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

2 out of 3 dont have an XL even though the stalker is XL friendly. Whats your point?

I can't really respond to this in the 3rd Dimension. I at least need a plane of 7 dimensions and 2 of them have to at least be time while 4 are directions and the last one can do what the hell it wants.

[Asmosis]

BLOOD WOLF, on 25 October 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

I dont understand how some players say balanced and others say it's unbalanced. Yet others act as if there are no differing thoughts on the issue. I am inclined to agree with you.

That's actually a sign the game is pretty well balanced, although it can always be improved.

For clan XL's, applying a similar (or same) penalty as losing a leg (not cumulative) should do the trick.

[DAYLEET]

Nightshade24, on 25 October 2015 - 09:48 PM, said:

I can't really respond to this in the 3rd Dimension. I at least need a plane of 7 dimensions and 2 of them have to at least be time while 4 are directions and the last one can do what the hell it wants.

If you are losing side torso on a stalker you need to pay more face time because you dont torsotwist with a stalker, you have a hitbox that makes the st hard to hit and firepower to make others twist. Mine always were sucessful, esp in CW where my deck is Malinche+Misery. Those 2 will get 1500 2k damage and if both dies it;s pretty much over anyway.

Ofcourse this all depends on your play style and loadout. But if stalker dont have enough survivability for you i suggest... well play clan or at worse BNC-TDR.

AnimeFreak40K, on 25 October 2015 - 09:31 PM, said:

At this point, I am pretty well convinced that most of the folks who are complaining about Clan mechs' engines haven't actually played in a Clan mech other than maybe any trials that are out there.
If they did, they would notice that Clans lack a level of customization that IS has.

lulz? The first/only reason i preordered clan wave1 and got the other clan mech is the insane omni pod customisability. The locked hs or jj are a joke really. The ferro/endo was annoying but objectively, most of the mech were superior anyways. But it's cool, people have been saying Clan needed to be stronger since their introduction where they were stupid op to now where they are just stupid survivability.

Ive played games where asymmetric faction were balanced or near balanced, MWO isnt one of them (right now)without a few mech with quirks(i hate quirks). Gota say i really liked the pts2, it felt good all around.

Edited by DAYLEET, 25 October 2015 - 10:28 PM.

[Nightshade24]

DAYLEET, on 25 October 2015 - 10:06 PM, said:

If you are losing side torso on a stalker you need to pay more face time because you dont torsotwist with a stalker, you have a hitbox that makes the st hard to hit and firepower to make others twist. Mine always were sucessful, esp in CW where my deck is Malinche+Misery. Those 2 will get 1500 2k damage and if both dies it;s pretty much over anyway.

Ofcourse this all depends on your play style and loadout. But if stalker dont have enough survivability for you i suggest... well play clan or at worse BNC-TDR.

Stalkers are my first assault mech, first to reach 1000+ damage, etc.
I own nearly all clan mechs, I got at least 3 mechs of each chassis I own but I do not own the Gargoyle yet. I also own the origins mechs.

I am not sure how you play the stalker. But I think it is public single cue you mostly play in- this is not an insault on your abilities but in a team situation I doubt an XL stalker survives a lot as most premades love flanking. My nova or hunchback takes the side torso of a stalker in seconds and most often if the stalker tries to dare turn to face me now my entire team faces it's other torso or back. And virtually all stalkers are XL-less. I should state that what makes a mech XL friendly is large CT and small ST's, the Stalker is nearly the complete opposite and that's why it is a popular standard engine meta mech as it can spread damage easily away from the ST.

On the topic of clan mechs: I own a lot of clan mechs and they do not feel that much different to most of my IS mechs in the whole standard engine/ xl engine debate and at times iwth some clan mechs with no endo/ ferro, to a degree the mech acts if it has an UP Standard engine more than an OP XL engine. What can also add to it is if it is the same weight as a superior engine so you do not get as much bang for your buck.

However there is all sorts of problems with clan XL's, ranging from the mechs that use them (Direwolf, Stormcrow, which profile can make it very hard to protect yourself or to manage where shots land, or in other cases a CT magnet or huge ST magnet that LRM's / srm's / Lbx will strip both ST's faster then it would kill a IS mech... yes, this kinda means clans are weak to missiles in some cases but not all but there is a different topic to touch on)

Omnimechs have so many built in balances... and to a degree so do the IIC's... each of them is much easier to hit or focus on parts than the IS counterpart, ie if you think 1 hunch is bad enough for the hunchback, now you got 2 making you more fragile but also tunnel visioned... Orion now double the width-ish... Jenner IIC being bigger, etc... However this isn't true for all Clan battlemechs, such as highlander IIC, Kodiak, Etc...
1 idea I suggest time and time again is increase or add penalties to the battlemech version, such as making their SRM's stream out and so on. in terms of XL engine double the current penalty for losing a Side torso or maybe x2.5 it. There is the option to switch engines and use standard engines on battlemechs so the problem is averted , these nerfs can be altered by quirks on some chassis that may need it despretly... for eg the Orion IIC, Highlander IIC, Supernova, Kodiak, etc.
Simular logic can apply to some clan omnimechs in terms of altering a nerf to benefit a mech, for eg allowing adders to get more than 10 damage ER PPC's but reduced splash or having a kitfox or summoner have no reduced damage at min range for LRM's...

Also control on XL penalties could be altered depending on the omnipods and chassis, such as the timberwolf A side torso (possibly after lossing some hurtufl penalties) making it lose more heat effeciency when you loose a ST- any ST. Just my 10 cents.

[Gattsus]

nerf to clan engines... ahh the salt is overflowing....
clan tears are delicious

[KuroNyra]

Clan XL acting like IS XL. So basicly kill the only thing that make the Clans actually viable.
Sorry but no.

[Rushin Roulette]

Actually 10v12 works very well with the Mechs in MWO.... however not with the IS Quirks in place.

Before the quirks were introduced (This was back when the Timberwolf was considered completely OP, Shortly after the first nerf), we had quite a few league games where we would play 10 v 12. Between 2 equal teams, the games were always close as would be expected.

However, after the IS mechs received their Quirks, the balance was off for 10 v 12. Going back to 12 v 12 made the game more or less balanced (Slightly in favour of the Clan side).

Making random changes such as giving Clans IS style engine survivability or chainging their speed for loss of engine would just unbalance the game.

Either keep it the way it is now (to mix things up, the quirks could be changed periodically for every mech) or remove the quirks, but make it 10 v 12 (how that is done is up to PGI, but a few possibilities have already been listed in this thread which should not take too many resources to program into the game).

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 26 October 2015 - 12:40 AM.

[Zonenpenner]

MischiefSC, on 25 October 2015 - 07:37 PM, said:

Second, you will never have a suitable population balance. Currently there's enough trouble in CW with getting matches even at 12v12 - saying you need a steady population of 60% IS players and 40% Clan players and still balanced for PSR? Again, not going to happen. Especially since all the good players are likely to move to playing on the Clan side.

You wold´nt need 60% IS players and 40% Clan players. If more then 60 % IS players searching a match, it could come to 12 IS vs 12 IS Matches. If there ar more then 40% Clanners searching for Matches, some of them will Play 10 Clan vs 10 Clan Matches. That would be a flexible System, that even simulates conflicts between sucessor states. Or between Clans.

Edited by Zonenpenner, 26 October 2015 - 01:21 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Mcgral18, on 25 October 2015 - 02:10 PM, said:

Whether you like it or not, Normalizing engines is the way to go.


Buffing the STD engine appropriately at the same time. Give isXLs larger penalties, but not death.

This. It is the only option that works.. give IS XLs no death on ST loss, same as clans (even have the exact same penalty for losing a ST) and then make STD engines give a very large buff to torso internal structure to keep STDs viable.

If you make clan XL die on ST loss, or make you move like legged or some such, you simply kill 95% of clan mechs instantly. Might as well remove them from the game. Running an XL Timber would be about the same level of smart as running an XL stalker, except you wouldnt get a choice in the matter...

[latinisator]

LastKhan, on 25 October 2015 - 07:35 PM, said:

How about no, unless we are able to interchange our engines on our omnimechs and introduce clan STD.

Now i get to spout some opinions.

10 v 12 will not work. period. in the current MM system. Either that or it would put alot of strain in finding matches cause of low pop. thus could make the searching a waiting game like CW.


I like the reduction in heat capacity for losing a part of the engine and would make sense. But im not for completely crippling clan mechs that have no choices with hardlocked crap. Another decent way is to make both IS and Clan weapons such as lasers do the same dmg flat out. Just having them weigh less and size for clans.

So much "This!". And fixed that for you.

THIS and ONLY THIS! The stupid public queue is the true pain in combination with the unholy match making. Make asymmetric matches possible, you guys. Problem solved. This no beta anymore, after all.
Force public queue into CW and have people play private matches when they want a mixed team of IS and Clan Mechs.
Just do some DEVELOPMENT in this direction, make Clan the numeric underdog in matches, remove quirks in general and add in those penalties for engine crits, done. Oh, and fix the hit reg and hit boxes again, please.

8v12? I am looking forward to if the IS has no quirks and Clan has a reduced ghost heat and our autocannons are buffed..
10v12 is not possible? I do not know how many times in CW 2 surats simply left the game and the matches were evened out.

[Thorqemada]

If you ever force Public Q into CW the game shuts down the next day.

[latinisator]

Because of...getting free stuff for playing?

Start a match, be in CW but with public queue settings - 15 minutes, one Mech only, assault or capture or skirmish; nothing really changes. You instantly are fighting Clan v Clan or Clan v IS or IS v IS. The match result would be a smaller part of planet take over, like 1/4 of a normal CW "field".

Edited by latinisator, 26 October 2015 - 03:46 AM.

[Thorqemada]

So you mean force CW into PQ