245 replies to this topic

[Josef Koba]

One set of numbers mean very little in terms of contributions to victory. I honestly prefer getting kills with as little damage as possible because that means I'm being more accurate and more efficient. But that's not always an appropriate bench mark. If I do 700-1000 damage but few kills, well, I wouldn't be happy with that either, honestly, but it would mean that I'm (hopefully) damaging the enemy enough that my lance mates are able to kill them. So on the one hand you have low damage/high kills, and on the other you have high damage/low kills. Both contribute. And as has been mentioned, some weapons are inherently more efficient at killing with lower damage output overall. A dual gauss will, if used properly, generate 30 points a shot to a single component. A slew of LRM launchers might do a lot of damage but not finish anything off. I just aim to be in the top 5 or so in match score - feeling as though you contribute to victory is more subjective than necessarily objective.

[Krellshand]

This is a very interesting discussion, and a topic I thought about in a while.

I would rephrase the statement a bit - if you don´t break x damage on a regular basis, you should try to improve

As it does depend on the playstile quote a bit, I would not set those numbers too hard.

Light - 250
Medium - 350
Heavy and Assault - 450

I mean, personally, if I sit down in a good heavy and do less than 600 damage, its not a good game. But it depends on the Mech so much, you can´t just put those numbers out there for all heavy mechs. I needed 3 games to break the 1000 damage in an Archer, but the dragon escapes me until now. It is not mastered yet, but thats the next point - once you master a Mech, put all the modules in, it gets a BIG buff to performance.

And of course, there are those non-measureable points in a game, where you may play good and affect the battle, but without doing much damage - my last Firestarter game:

Map: Polar Highlands
Damage: 170ish
Kills: 2
Firestarter: SMPL*6
No Mech/Weapon Modules

I rushed forward, socuting the main enemy body, shooting a Locut that fires off an UAV.

Trying to flank a few times, but every time some heavys and raven will break lose from the main body and LRMS start raining down.

I run up to the ridge, peek over it and place a UAV as close behind enemy lines as possible, get spotted and shot at.

I catch the Raven off Guard, but the SMPL Pirates Bane joins him, they fire off yet another UAV and LRMS start raining again. I run back to my ppl and hide untiil the LRM Spam stops.

I again try to flank, bit a Stormcrow and an Orion had the same Idea, so I back off again, taking more hits and even more LRM spam. Running to the other flank, I catch the Pirates Bane and kill it, starting to close down on the rest of the their team with my buddies. We were like 9-2 in the lead there, I catch a mech unaware and corehis back, taking my second kil and forcing yet another UAV.

Now the Orion and some other mechs start shooting at me (while beeind in the mids of my buddies) and lrm sparm until one of my legs go and Large Lasers take me down

So, I divided the other team several times, forced three UAVS and placed one myself, which stayed up for at least 20 seconds. Took ta lot of heat from way heavier mechs that wasted time chasing me and a LOT of Lrms, not sure why, but hey. I also killed two mechs, but did an abysmal amount of damage. Yet, the game was not bad in my opinion...

Damage is not everything, but if you struggle to break those numbers listed above on a regular basis, sth is wrong

Edited by Krellshand, 14 April 2016 - 07:22 AM.

[Duncan1dah0]

Personally I am working on increasing my average damage and k/d. I am ashamed of those mechs I ran when I was first learning the mechanics of the game. Several of them I stopped playing years ago. Their averages are just dreadful, but then I look at the averages of my new mechs and I realize how much I have learned and improved upon. I suppose it's a sign I've played to long when I run the numbers and set goals and quotas for improving those chassis averages.

I completely agree that a good game is personal. For me it depends on the chassis. I looking at my historical averages in both damage, XP, K/D, and W/L. I then take into account my play style. I am a brawler at heart, I sometimes lack the patience for sniping. My numbers reflect that. I take into account the uniqueness of the chassis, its role, its weapons, its mount points, etc. The map also impacts the results. Lasers on cold is awesome, lasers in the volcano sucks. It matters who I play against. If I recognize a name that kicked my rear before, well then I have a new goal.

It all adds up to a personal goal I have that can be very unique to the situation. I agree that 200 to 300 is a good normal match. I agree a long term players numbers should be higher given the above variables. Some days my impact to the battle are kills, sometimes it's damage, other times it's an amazing UAV that I placed and died right after getting no damage, but giving the team the win.

I think one thing missing from this conversation has been the match score and that definition of what is a good match. I know being a light pilot that it does reflect doing extra work other than just damage.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

Since this thread has been necro'ed I'll post up my findings.

In a match, there a finite amount of damage to be dealt. For CW it hovers around the 14,250 mark with a few outliers just south of 12,000 and just north of 17,000 with well over 80% of the matches being within 250 damage of 14,250.

If we divide that number by 4, we get 3,560 damage needing to be dealt to kill the entire opposing team so each player needs to dish out 297 damage to essentially "carry" their own weight.

So if one guy gets instagibbed dealing no damage, then the other 11 need to do 324 damage and so on and so forth.

[Agent1190]

Put the damage in context:

1. 6xLRM5 Catapult does 600 damage in a round, but the team loses 6-12 (the catapult has 6 assists). That's not a good 600 damage, and he didn't have any weapons that could "finish the job."

2. On the other team, a K2-Cat does 300 damage, gets 3 kills and 4 assists, including 1 solo kill on a light. Half the damage, but he did work and contributed directly to the team's victory.

You can't have a "good damage" number without context. It's easy to load up a high alpha mech and rack up the damage ineffectually. How does your damage help the team secure victory, that's what makes it "good" damage.

[TVMA Doc]

As much as you think it's a cop out, it does matter which weapons you did the damage with. If you're using gauss or AC20, you'll be doing pinpoint damage and will often kill mechs with much less overall damage than raking them with lasers while scorching every panel on the mech.

I typically do far less damage/get more kills with my AC40 King Crab than I do with a WubShee. While either one helps the team, if we're driving/getting driven the Crab is really the one that breaks the enemy's spine as they lose weapons at a much faster pace.

[TVMA Doc]

Lemming of the BDA, on 30 October 2015 - 10:22 PM, said:

Rude? " I get regularly so and such damage, and my best matches of damage were such and such." Please. Toot your own someplace else. You can do 0 damage and still help your team win. You carry hard. That and $5.75 gets you a venti at Starbucks.

Ohhh! There's a sale at Starbucks?

[TVMA Doc]

Eaerie, on 30 October 2015 - 11:07 PM, said:

While i agree no one hits tje exact target everytime it is a goal to shoot for. more so than how much total damage you did. I have had matches where i have done 700+ damage got some assists but no kills and just recently had a match where i scored 3 kills with less that 150 damage.
In my opinion the 3kills with <150 damage helped a lot more than the 700+ overall damage. But that is situation as well. the 700+ damage match might have been spent focusing on suppression and denial of an area to help my team flank or be able to focus lone mechs down

Now to the OP, lets take a sec, make some assumtions and let me show you how piss poor your reasoning really is.
assumtions
1. 3 lances composed of 4 mechs of each wieght class.
2. each wieght class has 4 mechs of max tonnage (ie. four 100 ton mechs etc)
3. assume it take enough damage to destroy half a mechs armor to kill it (not normally the case on most mechs)

using the above as a guide it would take each person on a team doing about 278 damage each to wipe out the enemy team. So you original post comes across as you just tooting your horn to get attention and attempt to state to the world how superior you are than everyone else.

A better measure of performance in my opinion for just sheer damage is 100 damage per wieght class of the mech. 100 for a light up to 400 for an assault. if everyone on a team did that you more than cover the damage to kill every mech in the above assumtion.
Now i have no problem if you personally think a sub 500 damage match is a bad match for you, i my personal goal i shoot for myself (they arent needed in a forum post) but everyone has goals they set that they want and some arent damage oriented. (which currently sucks due to damage being the easiest way to improve match score) some people like to scout, spot and narc targets.

I've seen games in which I was on the giving and the receiving end of some nasty Narcs. While that is a very dangerous job, often making is such that the light using the Narc gets little damage overall, it can be that one mech that turns the entire battle. Even without considering the LRMs landing on the narc'ed units, those mechs are essentially tagged with an advanced team radar mode/free UAV. Situational awareness can rule the day.

I agree with others in this thread. Damage alone doesn't tell the entire story for a match.

[Telemachus -Salt Wife Salt Life-]

200-350 damage is average. 500 is good. 700-1000 is exceptional. However, if every pilot on a team does 200-350 damage, and it was all pin point with good aim, then all other mechs on the enemy team should be dead.

[Karl Streiger]

300dmg are two solo kills - just saying

[PeeWrinkle]

I was thinking about this thread again the other night after an odd stats match I had. I did just under 300 total damage, but I had 1 solo kill - back shot , (only had of 1 kill) and 3 kill most damage.

For me I really strive for kills most damage. It is the number I feel means I am pulling my weight the most for my type of play style. When I got three with such low damage I started to wonder how did I do that? The answer is probably obvious, pin point damage. I was using a Black Knight with the generic 3LPLs and 3MLs loadout. Actually I have started using 3 LPL on many different chassis. I am really liking how they are performing right now.

Still such low damage, even with pinpoint, seemed odd to me. What I noticed is XL IS mechs helped. Two were side toroso deaths that I opened up by hitting them in the same side torso with 2 Alphas. Then an LRM or SRM just critted the XL in that torso.

After that experience I think I am going to track on my own matches where I have multiple kill most damage with damage under 400 and how many I have in matches with damage over 400. It may not confirm anything and end up being a bunch of numbers, but I am curious now.

I am also going to test this with all energy loadouts, primary ballistic loadouts, and primary missle loadouts. My guess is missle loadouts I will do a lot more damage and have less kills most damage. I think ballistics will be the bigger question mark because you have large and small ballistics and Clan ballistics with are more spread.

Either way I am kind of excited to run about 15 matches per loadout and see what happens. I need to make a note of group quality too. Since I am very average my decent matches are most dependent on the quality of the group play.

Ironically I love numbers and this game gives a bunch of meaningful numbers that are only really useful in context and even great numbers in many areas won't make you a great player.

Just my rambling thoughts of the day.

[Lehmund]

Lemming of the BDA, on 30 October 2015 - 10:18 PM, said:

You are the poster child for whats wrong with PSR. There are so many other benchmarks on what makes a good match other than damage done. Surpession, assists, uav placement, using voip constructivley, tanking large amounts of fire in a fattie, etc. Stick to your one track mind, while my team obliterates you.

I find the ranking system and point system a bit unfair in matches actually. But it's still ok to me. To make C-Bills, I need some mechs that do lots of damage and kills, that's fine.

However, my playstyle is support. It's what I like to do. It means sniping from a distance, LRMs, harassment and ECM/AMS cover, scouting etc....

Some of those things gets me points but nowhere as many as damage and kills.

However, my job is to help my team to win games. They can dish out the damage while I either split the enemy's attention, prevent damage on my teammates, or prep them to sneakily get them into brawling flanking positions to **** them in a surprise attack.

Thus in some cases, I do less than 100 dmg, yet win the game. I'm happy for the win because I did my job.

I just feel frustrated at times that I don't get rewarded by the system for my contribution, but hey a win is a win.

Bottom line good pilots can play any mech to it's strengths and help his team win, whether it's by tanking, dishing out pinpoint or distributed damage, or harassing from a distance.

How many times I got enemy mechs to back off using an UAC/2, I can't count. I did 10 damage in a few shots but prevented 50 to my team by rattling the enemy a bit and getting him to hide while my guys closed in. Or just stuck under an assault in my Lynx with 2 AMS reducing the LRM damage he's taking by half while he shoots his ER LPLs at positions etc.....

Play as a team, and you'll get wins. Period.

[Rushin Roulette]

Why the instance that high damage is good? I mean seriously. Look at truly high level competitive games you will find that given equal skill between both teams the average damage amount will be around 200 +/- 50 per player on the winning team in an 8v8 setting (Not much less for 12v12, because you do have more legs to destroy as a team, but there will also be more weapons on your team doing this).

Anything above that is just playing Mechbukake and spraying your load over everything in sight.

Want to play well? Go for the upper portion of legs. They cant be twisted away easily, if the mech feathers jumpjets you still have a high chance of hitting the lower legs, if he moves in a dip you will hit the torso. Dealing 150-250 damage per kill leaves more than enough room to kill a Heavy with full leg armour and more to spare for stray shots.

EDIT: Added team sizes to my original post.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 27 April 2016 - 04:28 AM.

[Zarock]

Why do people think 700-800 DMG is good?

Am I the only one who´s upset if I score less than 1k DMG? I also think that I didnt have a good match without being 1100-1200+ if I get a 900 its simply a average day for me.

I know that people will argue it´s all about where you are placing the dmg. While true I call anyone a filthy liar if they say "well I did 750 dmg, but it was all ct". Your shots will miss and will go wide and splash regardless of weapon types.

Am I the only one who get´s frustrated looking for builds or guides and have people link builds saying things like MAN THIS BUILD is so good only to have them show 800 dmg matches.

Sometimes I just wanna see unique builds with good scores to match them. So I can see if they can work. Not pages of unique builds with people claiming they work or do well with sub terrible scores saying "SUCCESS"

Edited by Zarock, 27 April 2016 - 06:22 AM.

[Archie4Strings]

i didnt read the whole topic, just to much. And maybe i am repeating somebody.
But: I strongly disagree!

Its also about movement, it depends on how big your loadout is (its much harder to do 400 dmg with a light than with a heavy) and it also depends on your weapons.
Spreading 600 dmg across the whole shiloutte with tons of lrms doesnt hardly make you a good pilot. LRMs spread throughout the whole mech, arms, legs and all torsi. Same with Streaks. I remember a medium pilot who suggested a loadout with 5 Streak Srms because he always does around 500 damage with it. Well, everytime i a fighting against a streakboat (in a non light mech), i feel pretty happy, because the damage gets spread so much between all my hitboxes, that i dont have to twist a ****. I can stand in front of him and focus totally on aiming, In the i will do less damage but i will still win!

So just because you do regularly do 500-600 damage each match, does not make you a good pilot. it can also just show that you are hiding pretty much and fighting from the back like a coward, while your team is dying because they need you in the front... Its not always about making damage, it is also about taking it and spreading it through your team.

[Red Shrike]

I think 300-500 is pretty decent for me. But then again, I tend to get my face melted off within 2 or 3 enemy alphas, so I rarely get the chance to do more damage.

[TheLuc]

A disabled opponent is more important than damage, head shot, backstab what ever it takes to get rid of the player facing you to go to the next, the damage metric is really to stack up CBills.

[Veev]

Let me state, this was a troll thread people. Look at the instigators number of posts.

That being stated, I have seen a team mate win the match at the start in a Dire Wolf with an Artillery strike and a YOU SHALL NOT PASS statement to a lance of assaults in a CW/FW. That 15 seconds of mayhem he caused stopped the entire push and allowed the rest of the team to rip the enemy apart. He scored less than a 100 damage on that wave but won that wave for us.

The entire problem with this thread is PGI's focus on not rewarding role warfare while claiming to have it in game and the fact the thread was troll bait in the first place.

LET IT DIE!!!

Edited by Veev, 28 April 2016 - 08:21 AM.

[KrataLightblade]

Because some of us don't play obsessively and don't feel like we've perfectly and utterly mastered every single aspect of this game and maybe enjoy feeling like we contributed to a match at all?

Seriously, OP. Back it down a few notches, you're kinda being a bit aggressively rude to non-top-tier players.

[el piromaniaco]

Troll or not, good or not, etc etc

More damage is more cbills and higher matchscore.

But everyone knows, you can win the game with 0 damage.