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Why Do People Think 200-350 Dmg Is Good.?


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#1 Snowren

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 07:56 PM

Am I the only one who's upset if I score less then 500 dmg?. I also think that I didn't have a good match withouth being 700-800+ if I get a 600 it's simply a average day for me.

I know that people will argue it's all about where you are placing the dmg. While true I call anyone a filthy liar if they say, "well I did 250dmg but it was all ct". Your shots will miss and will go wide and splash regardless of weapon types.

Am I the only one who get's frustrated looking for builds or guides and have people link builds saying things like MAN THIS BUILD is so good only to have them show 300 dmg matches.

Sometimes I just wanna see unique builds with good scores to match them. So I can see if they can work. Not pages of unique builds with people claiming they work or do well with sub terrible scores saying "SUCCESS"

/Rant

#2 Leone

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:08 PM

@OP: There is only so much armour to go around. If everyone on the team contributes, and all do ~250 dmg, you have won. Congratulations.

~Leone.

#3 Talorien

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:23 PM

600 dmg on my fully mastered, moduled Timber? Easy. 10-12 alphas.

600 dmg on my Spider? 30+ alphas. Not so easy.

#4 Snowren

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:46 PM

View PostLeone, on 30 October 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

@OP: There is only so much armour to go around. If everyone on the team contributes, and all do ~250 dmg, you have won. Congratulations.

~Leone.


The chance of everyone doing 250 dmg without losing to the other team simply doing more dmg is highly unlikely. the chances are builds will do their 250 dmg faster and better so your argument didn't really make sense.

If it was a single target that didn't attack back maybe your arugment would have value. But differen't alphas and weapons render it mute.

#5 Snowren

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 08:55 PM

View PostTalorien, on 30 October 2015 - 08:23 PM, said:

600 dmg on my fully mastered, moduled Timber? Easy. 10-12 alphas.

600 dmg on my Spider? 30+ alphas. Not so easy.


I'd say thats a rare example. I have the wolfhounds and If I do sub 500 I still feel like the match was a waste, Same with a firestarter and other various light mechs. Even locusts and jenners should be able to do more then 300. I get that some games you make a mistake and die. But I just don't understand the concept of I did 300 dmg in this mech a few times It's good!

Don't even get me started on people who play heavy's or mediums and think that 300~ dmg is good. I just don't know why people don't try to better them selves. I mean my Two highest score mechs are hardly meta being a Thor doing 1166 dmg and a black knight doing 1252.

Edit: What I'm trying to get at is why is it generally excepted that 300 dmg per match is a good thing. Tbh I don't think it should be considered doing good as well and was wondering if other people had the same sentiment.

also remember that AVG dmg on sites skew things because there are going to be matches where you get zero or low dmg. Due to d/c, Or getting steam rolled, Making mistakes etc.

Edited by Snowren, 30 October 2015 - 08:59 PM.


#6 Woofler

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:01 PM

Well, depending on the loadout/chassis you're taking, 250-300 damage can be great. Not everyone takes the meta mech. Also, Damage is not everything. Anyone can hop in a stormcrow, load it with streaks and pull out an easy 700+ game... whereas I can take something with Pinpoint alpha, target a single critical component (e.g. side torso on IS XL) and get less damage, yet know i'm still doing potentially more than other guys out damaging me. Damage is not everything...

#7 Roughneck45

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:05 PM

Its just a bar you set for yourself. I happen to agree with you, but not everyone can pull numbers like that with consistency, so 300 damage games can be a source of pride for some. Mech choice and build will obvioulsy limit your potential damage as well.

Edited by Roughneck45, 30 October 2015 - 09:07 PM.


#8 Nightshade24

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:23 PM

View PostSnowren, on 30 October 2015 - 07:56 PM, said:

Am I the only one who's upset if I score less then 500 dmg?. I also think that I didn't have a good match withouth being 700-800+ if I get a 600 it's simply a average day for me.

I know that people will argue it's all about where you are placing the dmg. While true I call anyone a filthy liar if they say, "well I did 250dmg but it was all ct". Your shots will miss and will go wide and splash regardless of weapon types.

Am I the only one who get's frustrated looking for builds or guides and have people link builds saying things like MAN THIS BUILD is so good only to have them show 300 dmg matches.

Sometimes I just wanna see unique builds with good scores to match them. So I can see if they can work. Not pages of unique builds with people claiming they work or do well with sub terrible scores saying "SUCCESS"

/Rant


Because...


100 tonners max CT armour is 125 front, 0 rear.
with 25 rear armour, it's 100 front armour and 25 rear.
with 10 rear armour, it's 115 front armour and so on.

75 tonners max possible CT armour is 92

55 tonners max possible ct armour is 72

35 tonners max possible ct armour is 44

most cases people have 10 to 20 rear armour as well, depending on chassis (light mechs tend to have less).



So if all your shots hit the CT. 100 damage would be approx the ammount to screw an atlas over for the game with exposed CT
OR if all your shots hit the CT, 100 damage would be enough to kill a timberwolf
OR if all your shots hit the CT, it is enough to kill or core 2 wolverine
OR if all your shots hit the CT, it's enough to kill or core 3 panther

Side torso or arms?
Enough to disarm an kingcrab
Enough to disarm a Orion
Enough to fully disarm a griffon or disarm two
Enough to kill Light (lets me honest... get anything that isn't an arm and you killed the light, unless arctic cheetah where you actually need to aim)

etc... so this is for eg a 1:1 ratio, you died (1 death) but so did 1 enemy or at least nearly.
Assuming good accuracy and aim.


200 damage?

enough to core 2 direwolfs
enough to core 2 timberwolfs and damage a bit more excess
enough to kill 3 stormcrows or at least core the last
enough to kill 3-4 lights

300?

Cored 3 kodiaks
kill 3 timberwolfs
4+ mediums
many lights.



This is all focused damage. but at 200 even spreading half your damage is enough to get above 1:1 ratio so to say.

If everyone does 250 damage-ish on the team then it should be enough to win unless a statistical enemy team did the literal smae things and performance which is known as the "predictable AI" which games often have, if you have 2 equal forces of ai's with same aim, intelligence, damage, etc... they will literally keep killing each other at an equal rate until both sides are completely dead. This doesn't happen with humans luckily. But skill is the variable here and the weapon...

Doing 300 damage with LRM's, SRM's, streaks, or LBX is not the same as with Lasers, AC 2, etc... or AC 20, Gauss, PPC, etc.


That's with a good aim or focused fire. This is why some people can pull off having a single ER PPC on a spider or commando or a gauss rifle on a shadowcat. It isn't the fact you get enough damage to kill nearly all the team yourself if you tried. but the fact you focused your damage with your skill in gunnery to do the job. You can carry the team but only get a sub 300 damage game because hey hey, you killed the 3 most powerful enemies on the team, (say a direwolf who already killed 3 enemies in the first 4 minutes of the game and 2 timberwolfs). I know people miss, but if you take the time to focus and take your aim when you got the clearing you can. This luxury often happens with skilled sniper builds like a Gauss Shadowcat, PPC spider, however sniper assaults and mediums may do a similar thing but due to higher threat on the battlefield and slower movement they do not have the patience to wait for each perfect shot.



You forget not everyone in a game is a timberwolf or kingcrab or what ever that can spam 600 damage while barely trying.
some people use LRM's, Some people are brawlers, some people are locusts, Panthers, Vindicators, Summoners, etc.
They do not have the DPS or alpha strike to tape down the middle shoot button when the first enemy comes up and do 400 damage without moving.
You also forget about the topic of different roles. It isn't that strong now but it is a strong pressence when you look at other games. If you got a Raven 3L where you barely got damage dealing weapons nad mainly got NARC, TAG, ECM, BAP, etc and your only weapon is say twin medium lasers and a SRM 6, I think 300 damage for that is much more impressive than in a 7 medium pulse laser thunderbolt.


200+ damage is my personal benchmark of an okay or average game. this is what I call the situational variable benchmark. As no matter if your game was being sealclubbed by enemies or you died in early game, it takes everything into account for the 'general' damage. rather it be an assault or light, Spread or Pinpoint, etc... You can go further and get damage quota for each weight class. My personal one is from lights to assault, 200, 250, 300, 350. where the range of damage increase/ drop varries more and more as it goes up from the lights logmarithmatically.

Last but not least: Skill difference. (which my formula is set up for people between 2 weeks to 2 years of playing).
I had a friend once, When he first played MW: O he joined a unit and they forced him to get the Thunderbolt back when it was OP, back when it out DPS's 4 warhawks in terms of 3 ER PPC spamming over the course of 10 to 20 seconds. As you know, this was very poorly ballanced and OP for the time. But my friend had issues getting over 100 damage in it as he was new...
He took the most powerful mech and build in MW: O history but failed. Doesn't make it the worst mech ever. on the complete reverse situation: I play in the stalkers often with stock+ build, I rarely change the weapon from the stock build for the stalker and I do on my good games 600 to 1400 damage in it...

I do that in a mech with LRM's way bellow average. SRM 6's that spread way to much, and mixed lasers with poor, if anything- bad range and damage profiles to match. But somehow I am doing good in a build people may assume I just got my first mech (stalker) an hour ago and assumed it was stock because who would run 2 LRM 10's, 2 SRM 6's, 2 large lasers, and 4 mediums on a stalker? I've seen people do 700 damage in an urbanmech with AC 20 and so on and on and on.

It isn't just the mech. It is the playstyle, weapons, role, weight class, and most importantly skill and experience.

200-300 damage is a good benchmark to not beat yourself over if you hit that low. Getting more damage is always better but more damage doesn't always mean more participation or skill. It is a good benchmark to aim to get above. It isn't a benchmark to get up to and quit the game because you did your damage for the game.

There are thousands maybe millions of unique builds that are cool and work that do well in the game, especially over 200 or 300 damage. Ranging from my Atlas with 2 LBX 10's, 1 ER PPC, and a SRM 6 with a very large standard engine. (surprise: this one gets to the 600 damage range. this isn't a bad build I suffer at getting barely over 200 damage). As well as another mech I got that is a Direwolf with 2 ER PPC's, 2 Large pulse lasers, a UAC 20, and 3 er mediums (yes, the Direwolf Widowmaker stock config)... ranging from stock+ load outs to load outs barely making any logical sense to the original design like having a nova with duel SRM 6's and a few machine guns and lasers.
Well some of these are pushing to an extreme for example such as the nova but they do exist and happen.

#9 zudukai

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:45 PM

View PostLeone, on 30 October 2015 - 08:08 PM, said:

@OP: There is only so much armour to go around. If everyone on the team contributes, and all do ~250 dmg, you have won. Congratulations.

~Leone.
+1

Edited by zudukai, 30 October 2015 - 11:21 PM.


#10 loopala

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 09:45 PM

looking at my king crabs
the duel guass has the highest kill ratio but has the lowest avg damage.
now the LRM boat does insane damage but it is lite on kills
the AC20 is a toss up but it breaks stuff up close

damage is not the only number

#11 The Lost Boy

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:08 PM

You are just too good of a player for all the rest of us who OBVIOUSLY suck. The view must be breathtaking from your high horse. Throw us some breadcrumbs the next time you pass and save me a few shots on the battlefield before you singlehandedly wipe out the enemy.

#12 sycocys

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:10 PM

I just head shot everything, I don't know why you think high damage makes you special.

#13 Snowren

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:12 PM

Meh you all seem to be missing the point.

To: Woofler

If your telling me every single point of your 200-300 dmg comes from pin point alpha striking into key area's, I'm sorry sir then I'm calling your a liar! There is no possible way you don't accidentally spread dmg onto other components. Maybe once in a 100 matches do you get every single point of dmg into important area's.

To:Nighshade24,

I fail to see your logic. One of my best matches came from a thor who it's not as you say a timberwolf. I'm not basing this on a chasis or the op mech of the game. To me wether I'm in a crab/wolfhound/jenner/Orion or any other off meta mech sub 300 or 300 seems like a horrible amount and I don't agree with it being something to consider as a good match. I fail to see the logic of doing so.

As well that's great that you listed all the Armor vaules of front torso's. But can you honestly sit there and tell me when you do you 200 dmg that you Hit CT and ONLY CT on the same MECH every time? Because I call BS!. you talk about skill that means that the enemy also has skill. Proper hill peeking and side twisting really lowers the amount of dmg you do one component.

regardless of weapon type YES im including LRMS you should be able to pull 300+ no problem. I just don't understand why people salute those that do such minimal dmg.

Edited by Snowren, 30 October 2015 - 10:14 PM.


#14 Snowren

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:17 PM

View PostLemming of the BDA, on 30 October 2015 - 10:08 PM, said:

You are just too good of a player for all the rest of us who OBVIOUSLY suck. The view must be breathtaking from your high horse. Throw us some breadcrumbs the next time you pass and save me a few shots on the battlefield before you singlehandedly wipe out the enemy.



I never said I was better then anyone nor did I claim to be some god. I simply asked Why we should salute 300 dmg. you all claim it's not about the dmg it's how you hit the mech. But let's be real here. How many times are you hitting the same mech in the exact same spot on a match? unless your brawling 100% of the time I call shenanigans.

Alot of you are using this argument as a crutch. But I've yet to see why we should celebrate 300 dmg? Specially since the large and vast majority of games those doing 300 are doing it to multiple mechs and components.

No need to be rude.

Edited by Snowren, 30 October 2015 - 10:18 PM.


#15 The Lost Boy

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:18 PM

You are the poster child for whats wrong with PSR. There are so many other benchmarks on what makes a good match other than damage done. Surpession, assists, uav placement, using voip constructivley, tanking large amounts of fire in a fattie, etc. Stick to your one track mind, while my team obliterates you.

#16 The Lost Boy

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:22 PM

Rude? " I get regularly so and such damage, and my best matches of damage were such and such." Please. Toot your own someplace else. You can do 0 damage and still help your team win. You carry hard. That and $5.75 gets you a venti at Starbucks.

#17 Bluttrunken

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 10:40 PM

What exactly is the reason for this thread?

I'll list some reasons which come to my mind. Not arguing that's accurate but:

Reason 1: Look at me lads, I'm so pro!
Reason 2: Make other people feel bad
Reason 3: Enforcing the own sense of superiority
Reason 4: You drank too much wine and ate too much cheese
Reason 5: You thought you have a point

OF COURSE it could be an utterly unconstructive and useless thread as well.

For useful threads I'd like to show you some examples:
http://mwomercs.com/...dvanced-topics/
http://mwomercs.com/...ics-101-comics/
http://mwomercs.com/...lf-improvement/

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato

#18 Snowren

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 11:05 PM

View Postk05h3lk1n, on 30 October 2015 - 10:40 PM, said:

What exactly is the reason for this thread?

I'll list some reasons which come to my mind. Not arguing that's accurate but:

Reason 1: Look at me lads, I'm so pro!
Reason 2: Make other people feel bad
Reason 3: Enforcing the own sense of superiority
Reason 4: You drank too much wine and ate too much cheese
Reason 5: You thought you have a point

OF COURSE it could be an utterly unconstructive and useless thread as well.

For useful threads I'd like to show you some examples:
http://mwomercs.com/...dvanced-topics/
http://mwomercs.com/...ics-101-comics/
http://mwomercs.com/...lf-improvement/

"Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because they have to say something." - Plato


The point is why do we salute and cheer on people who have such low contribution. Why should we say wow grats good job on 300 dmg. Why do we allow such a low performance to affect what we call good matches.

I'm not here to claim i'm amazing. But because of people who say 300 dmg is all you need to do people never improve.

it's like saying wow! silver in league of legends is high elo.

I mean I've never attacked any of you in this thread. Yet you all Reply with petty insults
"[color=#959595] I get regularly so and such damage, and my best matches of damage were such and such." Please. Toot your own someplace else. You can do 0 damage and still help your team win. You carry hard. That and $5.75 gets you a venti at Starbucks. [/color]"

etc....

Yes there more to it then dmg in this game, Though honestly with the way it is currently not much. Let's be real scouting isn't very important in matches with pug's, and those lights that kill mechs from behind all usually tend to do superior dmg.

Why should we say that 300 dmg is an GOOD amount. That's the purpose of the thread. But what ever you can call me show boating or tooting my own horn or w/e.

You can insult me etc....

I'm stop posting since all of you seemed to be getting upset.

Btw if I wanted to toot my own horn i'd post screen shots etc... Not brag in a post.

#19 Eaerie

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 11:07 PM

While i agree no one hits tje exact target everytime it is a goal to shoot for. more so than how much total damage you did. I have had matches where i have done 700+ damage got some assists but no kills and just recently had a match where i scored 3 kills with less that 150 damage.
In my opinion the 3kills with <150 damage helped a lot more than the 700+ overall damage. But that is situation as well. the 700+ damage match might have been spent focusing on suppression and denial of an area to help my team flank or be able to focus lone mechs down

Now to the OP, lets take a sec, make some assumtions and let me show you how piss poor your reasoning really is.
assumtions
1. 3 lances composed of 4 mechs of each wieght class.
2. each wieght class has 4 mechs of max tonnage (ie. four 100 ton mechs etc)
3. assume it take enough damage to destroy half a mechs armor to kill it (not normally the case on most mechs)

using the above as a guide it would take each person on a team doing about 278 damage each to wipe out the enemy team. So you original post comes across as you just tooting your horn to get attention and attempt to state to the world how superior you are than everyone else.

A better measure of performance in my opinion for just sheer damage is 100 damage per wieght class of the mech. 100 for a light up to 400 for an assault. if everyone on a team did that you more than cover the damage to kill every mech in the above assumtion.
Now i have no problem if you personally think a sub 500 damage match is a bad match for you, i my personal goal i shoot for myself (they arent needed in a forum post) but everyone has goals they set that they want and some arent damage oriented. (which currently sucks due to damage being the easiest way to improve match score) some people like to scout, spot and narc targets.

#20 Spleenslitta

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Posted 30 October 2015 - 11:33 PM

200-350 damage ain't exactly good. But neither is it bad. A light or medium mech has carried it's weight once it's done that much damage.
I'd say once you've done +400 you have done your job no matter how heavy your mech is.

But a player that doesn't do a single point of damage is not necessarily a bad player either.
Maybe he was the first on his team walked around a corner to come face to face with half the enemy team waiting in an ambush.
They take off his maingun before he can even aim it. Crippled he tries to bring his torso mounted backup weapons in line.
But the cockpit is shaken badly by all the hits he is receiving from a DW with loads of UAC5 and a Huginn's SRM4's.
Because of the shake he can't aim and thus he dies.





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