Sjorpha, on 24 November 2015 - 06:03 AM, said:
The crimes committed in the name of Christianity far exceed those committed in the name of satanism in both scale and scope, so that argument feels a bit hypocritical. Same can be said about Islam and many other religions.
So I can accept an argument to exclude religious references altogether, because religions in general tend to have a vile and disturbing history. But I can't see a good argument specifically against satanism here.
Either it's ok to use religious references or it isn't, and I'm leaning more towards allowing references and ridicule of all of them because that's a much better way to establish a more laid back and less sensitive atmosphere that going around being anxious about "offending" people.
We already have angels in the game on loyalty mechs. Angels represent one of the most morally corrupt and vile traditions of thought I can think of, namely Abrahamic monotheism, so could go around being offended by angels on mechs. But it would be silly, just as silly as Christians or others being offended by satanic symbols.
We also have images and themes from scandinavian folklore in the game, which would be the culture closest to my own heart as a Swedish person. I could be upset that they have mixed up the story of the 3 Norns with weird angel pictures, or someone from a country historically enslaved and slaughtered by vikings could be upset that a historically savage and racist culture is glorified and presented in positive light. But again, it would be silly.
If you start granting the right to a certain kind of "respect" specific unsupported belief systems you just end up with a totally unsustainable situation. The truth is that there is no special case against satanic images except that the "offended" party is used to special treatment. There is no special case for respecting the sensibilities of Christians more than others, it's a supernatural belief among others and it's time to get used to not being taken more or less seriously than any other belief in magic.
Angels and devils and so on are symbolically powerful images and fun to use in game design, we should use the wealth of treasures in fiction/religion/myth that culture and history has given us and leave "offended" people with their problems, because that is what it is, their problems.
it is true that most Religions had a bad past in their name. But so does the crimes going towards a country (germany, usa, australia, canada), or actions done in the name of atheism, and in the name of justice... and the name of [etc].
One major difference between Satanism and say- most other religions, is that the other religions tend to not be about war, suffering, etc. But more about love, peace, knowledge, etc. Meanwhile Satanism is not towards that... more of the opposite.
So lets take a made up number that say- 10% of all people who are in one of hte main 5 religions have done crimes against humanity in the recent 50 years. (keep in mind, with a large sample size, such as millions/ billions, that 10% is quite large, it's a bit of an exaggeration). Religions like Satanism, is more of the lines of 95%+ of people who often do crimes against humanity... the only times it isn't the case is when people have a poor knowledge of anything that goes on and than attempt to run away from it and convert when they realised it was probably the worst life mistake they have ever committed. Those are made up statistics as there is obviously no fast way to gather said statistic in a day or week just to post to a forum comment. But there is the fact that as mentioned above- Satanism is a big "F U" to most religions, atheism, society, and to a standard life itself.
On other news- the media would chew MW: O alive if news broke out that randomly this game started supporting Satanism and/or 'possibly' linked to a murder. Which thanks to the media the later part is probably a bunch of loose connections just to make the video game industry even more shown in the negative light. but the first part will cause a back lash... Which what makes MW: O so different to say some games with very strong religious symbols or entities such as the Binding of Isaac or what have you is the fact that MW: O is a very low rating game, Technically speaking a 8 year old can play this game (which they could... I mean there is a certain young mechwarrior pilot that died a few years back that I do not want to put their name in vein for the sake of a forum debate. But if you've been here long enough you probably know who I am talking about...)
The last thing PGI wants is to slap depictions of Demons and stuff on a mech for a simple Halloween event or what ever.
To your topic about Satanism offending Christianity- it's more than that, as stated above, it doesn't go well with literally anything. To a degree. depictions of a demon/ devil is worse than having swastikas around, on other news demons would offend more people, as you know with WWII not every country participated and some were on the axis side, so for some (mainly asian, south american, and african countries) do not have problems with swastikas,but for devils/ demons it's nearly universal. Which sadly for MW: O and the BT franchise- is one of the most international franchises out there. With fans in all continents and most countries.
On your last topic- if it is the fact that people can slap the colour blue where ever they want- that is a minority. If it's the fact that there are not many Female battlemech pilot hero mechs out there (ie so far it's only heavy metal from what I know), that's there problem. But when the majority of the game is offended- it becomes PGI's problem.
On other news- the [US] Media really do love trying to exploit any popular game to show how bad video gamers are and such- if they see poor little PGI an indie company which barely escaped bankruptcy in 2009-2012 due to lawsuits who is now 'apparently' supporting demon warshipping. You will have PGI in a lot of negative light as well as MW: O. That's the last thing PGI wants- especially if the media twists facts around and tries to connect MW: O with some cult suicide or murders that barely have any or no relation to MW: O (note: I mentioned US media specifically as some sources like fox news love twisting and abusing facts, and overall US media likes bashing on the video game industry. These are some extreme situations I have mentioned now. But they have not happened before. Some video games like GTA and CoD had this backlash but due to huge economic success they can handle being in the court well... considering PGI can't even hold their own to using the RESEEN warhammer for the MW:5 trailer in 2009-2012... we can easily see the death of MW: O because of heavy use of certain religious or cultural symbols or characters. There is also no need to drag heavy modern religion into a game in 3051, there is the one occasional mech called Anubis, or Osiris, or Thor, Loki, etc... but if you take a quick notice here- those mecs are named from dieties or events in "past" religions, there is barely a dozen or so people who still follow these religions. It is true that Religions such as Christianity still exist in 3050- even in the clans. There is a reason that is a topic that isn't touched on)
Like there is no real reason for PGI to do this. For what- a fancy skin? PGI's staff for making skins is already over whelmed with the current situation because for every new skin they make they have to make it work for every variant (ie catapult k2 vs catapult c1), for every mech, etc- and that list of mechs grows more and more each day... many mechs today do not have all their skins nor the HD redone... Cockpit items? it wouldn't really add anything to it. Lots of people actually complain that PGI dares make more cockpit items that are basically the same thing... etc...
PGI could do many other things, Rather it be to support a charity or help kickstart BT or help fund or test a new mechanic or event... or new game mode... They can celebrate Waitangi day with a sell for the NZ flag as well as give a Sell to certain red, blue, black, and white colours. (New Zealand/ Aeteroa colours). Or Mexican day of the dead. etc...
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Maybe they could do an event next year for the project
New Horizons, which was NASA taking a closer look to Pluto. Quite valid for BT as one of BT's strongest aspects in lore is space exploration, discovery, science, etc. Would love a Pluto cockpit item... for some reason I feel that is something the Urbanmech was made for...
I do not think we should delve to much deeper into the discussion of religion because I think this is not even a topic that is allowed to be discussed on these forums- I know on other forums that this is the case as well as discussing of certain politicians (mainly ones from 1930-1960...), or other things along these lines... If you want to take it to PM's we could. But I do not think this is the best place to talk about this...
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