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LBX 10 question


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#1 Hive Rat

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:48 AM

I was talking with a buddy about the game and he said he read somewhere that you couldn't load both types of LBX ammo ("shotgun" and regular shot) on your mech, but instead had to choose one ammo type per battle.

I thought I had read all the info the devs put out and I haven't run across this yet.

Can anyone out there clear this up for me?


P.S. sorry for the 8th-grade-sounding first sentence.

#2 WardenWolf

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:54 AM

Won't know till we get into the beta, and won't be able to say till we get to open beta.

If your friend is speaking from first-hand experience in this game (MWO)... tell him to stop breaking his NDA :/

#3 Wolfclaw

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:57 AM

View PostWardenWolf, on 10 July 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Won't know till we get into the beta, and won't be able to say till we get to open beta.

If your friend is speaking from first-hand experience in this game (MWO)... tell him to stop breaking his NDA :/



Funny since 80% of the beta players have broken NDA, I guarantee you plenty of beta players have told their friends/clan mates about the game. To think otherwise would be ridiculous.

Edited by Wolfclaw, 10 July 2012 - 10:57 AM.


#4 Stickjock

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 10:58 AM

From sarna.net

Quote

Description
Introduced in 2595 by the Terran Hegemony[4]. The LB 10-X Autocannon is essentially a 'Mech-mounted shotgun, capable of firing special "cluster rounds" that split apart after being fired, allowing the weapon to either spread damage out or focus damage on a small area, depending on the range. LB-X Autocannons are able to use either the special cluster rounds or standard autocannon rounds. The LB 10-X Autocannon, having a higher caliber, causes higher damage than lower-caliber autocannons, though it is limited to medium ranges.


Haven't dug out my TT rule books, but even reading that, I could see a restriction on one type of ammo at a time being loaded...

#5 Wolfclaw

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:04 AM

View PostStickjock, on 10 July 2012 - 10:58 AM, said:

From sarna.net



Haven't dug out my TT rule books, but even reading that, I could see a restriction on one type of ammo at a time being loaded...


He was asking if you could have multiple ballistic types or just 1 kind at a time.

#6 Broceratops

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:05 AM

what is the point of the regular autocannon over the lbx, if you can pack both rounds into the lbx?

#7 KitK

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:09 AM

In TT, yes you can load multiple ammo types. The idea is to load a ton of slug to rip off the armor and a ton of shot to exploit holes with critical hits. Though lots of people just go stright shot looking for armor blow-throughs and head shots.

However, the ability to switch between ammo types has never been implemented in a Mechwarrior game to date.

#8 Vaktor

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:12 AM

This of course interest me quite a bit but I guess we will just have to wait and see like so many other things. The answer to this question will effect how much I am going to love the Centurion CN9-D when I finally get it.

#9 Der Zivilist

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:13 AM

View PostBroceratops, on 10 July 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

what is the point of the regular autocannon over the lbx, if you can pack both rounds into the lbx?


Price and restricted availability.

Also the fact that we only get the LB-X/10 and not any of the other sizes... at least until the Clans come teach the IS how to build weapons.

#10 EvangelionUnit

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:13 AM

View PostBroceratops, on 10 July 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

what is the point of the regular autocannon over the lbx, if you can pack both rounds into the lbx?

in the later timeline you get other special round that only fit in standard AC's ... ask davion players hehe

#11 KitK

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

View PostBroceratops, on 10 July 2012 - 11:05 AM, said:

what is the point of the regular autocannon over the lbx, if you can pack both rounds into the lbx?


Clan's don't have a regular AC. It's either ultra or LB-X.
For the IS there may be a weight difference, but more importantly the range is longer. In TT the regular AC was passe, but they introduced sevearl specialty ammo types that can only be used with regular and light autocannons. But again, there hasn't been an ammo switching option to date; and those ammo types are a few MWO years down the line.

Edited by KitK, 10 July 2012 - 11:20 AM.


#12 Hive Rat

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:15 AM

My friend is not in the Beta, though he sure wishes he was (like most of us speculating in the forums). Most of my BT experience has been TT. I think the only computer version I played was MW3 mercs, so it didn't occur to me that you *couldn't* load both types of ammo.

#13 Paralax

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:23 AM

If i recall correctly, the ammo was the same, you just picked at the time you called the shooting phase if you were using it as Cluster or as normal shot?

#14 Haydin

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 11:42 AM

View PostParalax, on 10 July 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

If i recall correctly, the ammo was the same, you just picked at the time you called the shooting phase if you were using it as Cluster or as normal shot?


Nope. You loaded them up in 1 ton lots of cluster or standard munitions. 10 shots each. You did, however, say which one you were using before you shot since the cluster rounds had an easier to-hit roll.

I'd personally like to see alternate types of ammo in MWO. There are a ton of really cool autocannon and missile munitions that have yet to show up in a mechwarrior game. And given the nature of this game, it would be very cool to see not only alternate versions of direct damage munitions, but also things like Thunder LRMs, ECM pods, Haywire Pods, Inferno SRMs, smoke rounds, etc for some more strategic play.

Edited by Haydin, 10 July 2012 - 11:48 AM.


#15 Redshift2k5

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:38 PM

The LBX10 is a whole ton lighter than the AC-10. If you load a solid shot into the LBX10 it results in an important canon weapon being 100 percent obsolete. Nobody would ever ever ever use the AC-10 if you could load the LBX10 with slugs. It does run contrary to TT, but makes both weapon stand out as separate useful options.

Most modified weapons are a sidegrade- more heat for more damage, or more heat for more range, etc. The same range and damage for one less ton does not suit the game model.

#16 John Clavell

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 01:40 PM

While the LB-10-X can indeed load both shot / or solid rounds. I'd say they wont allow you to use solid rounds in it. Otherwise due to the weight saving it makes the AC10 in effect obsolete.

#17 Strum Wealh

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Posted 10 July 2012 - 03:15 PM

AC-10
Mass: 12.0 tons
Volume: 7 criticals
Max. Effective Range: 450 meters
Damage per Salvo: 10 units
Heat per Salvo: 3 units
Salvos per Ton of Ammunition: 10 salvos
Cost (weapon): 200,000 c-bills
Cost (ammunition): 6,000 c-bills per ton (standard HEAP shell)
-- Armor-Piercing ammunition (3059): 4x price of standard (HEAP) ammunition
-- Caseless ammunition (3055): price unknown (similar to standard/HEAP ammunition?)
-- Flak ammunition (2310): price unknown (similar to standard/HEAP or flechette or incendiary ammunition?)
-- Flechette ammunition (3055): 1.5x price of standard (HEAP) ammunition
-- Incendiary ammunition (year unknown): 2x price of standard (HEAP) ammunition
-- Precision ammunition (3062): 6x price of standard (HEAP) ammunition
-- Tracer ammunition (2300): price unknown (similar to standard/HEAP ammunition?)

LB 10-X AC
Mass: 11.0 tons
Volume: 6 criticals
Max. Effective Range: 540 meters
Damage per Salvo: 10 units (HEAP shell), 1 unit per pellet (cluster shell)
Heat per Salvo: 2 units
Salvos per Ton of Ammunition: 10 salvos
Cost (weapon): 400,000 c-bills
Cost (ammunition): 12,000 c-bills per ton (HEAP shell), 20.000 c-bills (cluster shell)

-----

The LB 10-X is (canonically) lighter, less-bulky, longer-ranged, and cooler-firing than the standard AC-10.

However, the LB-X requires at least two tons of ammunition (one standard/HEAP and one cluster) to reach its full potential.
Additionally, the weapon itself canonically costs twice as much as the standard AC-10, and the ammunition (depending on the type) costs 2-3 times as much per ton.

As such, the standard AC-10 with two tons of ammo would cost 212,000 c-bills to field, versus 432,000 c-bills to field the LB 10-X with both HEAP and cluster munitions.

Moreover, if full ammo-switching capabilities were implemented for the LB-X, then there would be little reason not to allow the standard ACs to have what special munitions (flak, tracer, and possibly incendiary... with more becoming available as time goes on) are canonically available to them (which cannot canonically be used by LB-X or Ultra ACs) as well.

With one ton of standard ammunition and one ton of flak munitions, the standard AC-10 could (for a total cost of~212,000 to ~218,000 c-bills, depending on the price of flak ammunition) fill the role of "half-price/poor-man's LB 10-X"...

Your thoughts?





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