Jump to content

Mwo: Present State

Balance BattleMechs General

33 replies to this topic

#1 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 24 November 2015 - 08:22 AM

I wanted to jot down some feedback on MWO. I have played since CB and recently returned from about a year off. I'm not one to be prone to exaggerated claims and such. These are (mostly and unless specifically stated otherwise) my opinion.

First and foremost, excellent job on the new tutorial and academy! It really blew me away with the presentation. Now keep in mind this is in regards to MWO only. It blew me away that MWO now has something of a storyline beginning. A reason to care about stomping around in big robots. I've written up a pretty specific post regarding the academy in another section (if you'd like to discuss the Academy specifically) http://mwomercs.com/...riously-gj-pgi/

Balance: I have been a dedicated LL boater for years now. I saw a lot of threads complaining about laser vomit. I personally don't see it. I see a much better diversity in builds and weapon types being deployed personally. I see more players finding and filling actual roles on teams. I see a lot more teamwork, which leads me to my nest observation.

VOIP: YAY!!!! Welcome to the 21st century PGI! You got voip working (and from what I've seen working well at that). I have found (as many had stated years ago) that PUGs using and paying attention to the VOIP feature do much better on average than those teams where nobody communicates. If you are still complaining about the whole "premade" "pugstomps" thing, you quite simply aren't using tools handed to you freely and this really and honestly just might not be the game for you. Kudos to PGI for getting this done.

QUIRKS: The quirk system seems to be doing an excellent job in helping balance mechs and chassis. I actually had to go buy a 4N just so I could see if quirks are really worth it (they are if you pay attention to them btw). I think they could be refined a bit more and broadened but I like what you've done with them.

WAIT TIME: This one is hit and miss with me. It could be partially my fault though. I don't have the Oceanic servers selected (srry, ping is just too high for me usually) and my wait times can hit upwards of 5 minutes at times. Overall the norm was closer to about 45-120 seconds

Suggestions to improve:

LOBBIES: Get lobbies implemented already. If you give your players a place to congregate and hang out with others with common interests you'll really start to see your community flourish. It still baffles me that you would intentionally build an online team based game with absolutely no way to hang out with others prior to hitting launch and entering a game. Did it not occur to you that you just created an MMO and that you're trying to get people to play in teams with others? Why would you intentionally create extra barriers to make this more difficult?

HEAT: Just do away with your philosophy on heat. It really is the worst and clunkiest mechanic in this game. Add in heat penalties to a true heat scale and make things simpler. It's ridiculous that you really felt ghost heat was a "better" solution than simply adding in movement and targeting modifiers based on how much heat you've generated.

Microtransactions: Excellent job in coming up with (in my opinion anyhow) a better pricing system with mechs and bundles and such. Now if you'd just get it through your noggins that paints, cockpit items, cosmetic stuff, etc. is not "premium" content. It's filler content. It's cute little baubles for the player to show off. Make them cheap. Make them overly accessible. Make them your micro transaction. I'm telling you right now, if you do this before Steam, you'll wind up generating a lot more income overall.

MECHS: As always, the combat portion of the game is fun and engaging. The new reward table really makes it feel worth it to stick in lance formation, help teammates, focus fire, etc. Take it one step further now. Add incentives to take rarely used mechs and chassis. Add bonuses for taking mechs that are rarely used. Give a player a 10% cbill boost for taking that Treb instead of that HB. Give them a bonus for taking that QD instead of the Tbolt. Stuff like that would go a long way to helping see more diversity on the field.

UI: The UI is pretty and fairly functional, but a bit difficult to find my way around sometimes. Work on getting more click and go options in the menus, or at least better cookie crumbs to find specific areas to do specific things. Example I had recently it trying to find the commands to make adjustments to my unit in game. It took me forever because I had forgotten where it was. I feel sorry for a new player trying to discover where everything is located with no prior experience.

The chat tools need to be better. The little "flash" over tabs is very easy to miss, which means you miss new messages that came in in the chat windows. Give a better visual indicator that you received a new message.

I'll be doing more in-depth posts on specific areas as time permits but I wanted to give an overall general opinion on the game's status as a whole from a long-term and recently returned player.

#2 Kira Onime

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Dragoon
  • The Dragoon
  • 2,486 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationMontréal, Québec.

Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:06 AM

View PostSandpit, on 24 November 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Balance: I have been a dedicated LL boater for years now. I saw a lot of threads complaining about laser vomit. I personally don't see it. I see a much better diversity in builds and weapon types being deployed personally. I see more players finding and filling actual roles on teams. I see a lot more teamwork, which leads me to my nest observation.=


Gona say it now.
This point might be biased depending on which tier you're ranked in., 5 being the lowest 1 the highest. The higher the tier, the more likely you are to see the current meta of gauss/vomit builds followed by pure laser vomit somewhere behind. At the same time, the likelihood of seeing LRMs goes down drastically.

Lower tier matches have a bit of everything.

#3 Gamuray

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 866 posts

Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:17 AM

View PostSandpit, on 24 November 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

Microtransactions: Excellent job in coming up with (in my opinion anyhow) a better pricing system with mechs and bundles and such. Now if you'd just get it through your noggins that paints, cockpit items, cosmetic stuff, etc. is not "premium" content. It's filler content. It's cute little baubles for the player to show off. Make them cheap. Make them overly accessible. Make them your micro transaction. I'm telling you right now, if you do this before Steam, you'll wind up generating a lot more income overall.


That "filler content" isn't even "cute little baubles for the player to show off" because you can't even show off ANYTHING other than the paint camos. The majority of aesthetic items are completely invisible to everyone other than yourself. Besides, even the paint camos and colors have a super duper lowered rendering distance... if you're a decent distance from the painted mech, they just look black anyways!

But yes, should be lowered in price. And "unlocked" paints camos should actually be unlocked for all your mechs, not just one chassis. Because unlocking it for one chassis is never worthwhile unless you switch paint camos every day. (plus, consistency... [paint] colors are unlocked for all mechs, not just each chassis)


edit: phrasing.. previous stricken.. new put in [ ]

Edited by Gamuray, 24 November 2015 - 01:07 PM.


#4 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:18 AM

I'm just glad that PGI had raised the rewards a bit. Even they can see the Steam horde would not like the previous grind.

#5 Mcgral18

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • CS 2019 Top 8 Qualifier
  • 17,987 posts
  • LocationSnow

Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:22 AM

View PostPaigan, on 24 November 2015 - 09:10 AM, said:

Oh look, another balancing thread.
And a wall of text.
And cynicism like "VOIP: YAY!!!! Welcome to the 21st century PGI!"

That's it for me. Have a nice day.


Kids, this is why you read things.

Don't be like this guy, don't be [a surat].

Edited by Marvyn Dodgers, 24 November 2015 - 04:57 PM.
Unconstructive/insults


#6 Felicitatem Parco

    Professor of Memetics

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 13,522 posts
  • LocationIs Being Obscured By ECM

Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:25 AM

Still cannot save loadouts...

New players with 1 or 2 Mechs are not going to like having to manually reconfigure every time they want to go back to that one loadout they were using an hour ago. They won't have duplicate Mechs just to have loadouts ready to deploy.

This is going to hurt some butts, unfortunately. I am already sitting on a doughnut pillow.

#7 TLBFestus

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The 1 Percent
  • The 1 Percent
  • 3,519 posts

Posted 24 November 2015 - 09:55 AM

View PostSandpit, on 24 November 2015 - 08:22 AM, said:

I wanted to jot down some feedback on MWO. I have played since CB and recently returned from about a year off. I'm not one to be prone to exaggerated claims and such. These are (mostly and unless specifically stated otherwise) my opinion.


Microtransactions: Excellent job in coming up with (in my opinion anyhow) a better pricing system with mechs and bundles and such. Now if you'd just get it through your noggins that paints, cockpit items, cosmetic stuff, etc. is not "premium" content. It's filler content. It's cute little baubles for the player to show off. Make them cheap. Make them overly accessible. Make them your micro transaction. I'm telling you right now, if you do this before Steam, you'll wind up generating a lot more income overall.


This alone deserves a HUG;


Posted Image

#8 Almond Brown

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Philanthropist
  • Philanthropist
  • 5,851 posts

Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:11 AM

The 3 Chassis Rule will likely be the main gripe I see with many incoming players.

As to the Saving of Configs. If any Player can outfit multiple (3) Mech chassis with totally different builds, other than, say, maybe putting XL Engines in every Chassis, then the buying of 3 new chassis (the min. needed to max. them out for combat) that can be stripped, then selling off any unwanted parts one still requires an Inventory capable of creating ALL 3 on the Fly, unless the game somehow gives you a PAY at the Window on the way out of the Hangar pop up, which does nothing but allow your inventory to updated for the next time.

If you don't have the Inventory and don't want to auto PAY the piper, swapping of parts will still have to done. If you do have the inventory then Saving is moot as you have the materials and Chassis already in Stock...

#9 Barantor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 2,592 posts
  • LocationLexington, KY USA

Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:11 AM

Sandpit I am in the same boat and coming back and playing lights has been a pleasant experience.

I hope that steam brings some improvements to this game, but we will see.

#10 Praehotec8

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Liquid Metal
  • Liquid Metal
  • 851 posts

Posted 24 November 2015 - 10:20 AM

View PostGamuray, on 24 November 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:


That "filler content" isn't even "cute little baubles for the player to show off" because you can't even show off ANYTHING other than the paint. The majority of aesthetic items are completely invisible to everyone other than yourself. Besides, even the paint has a super duper lowered rendering distance... if you're a decent distance from the painted mech, they just look black anyways!

But yes, should be lowered in price. And "unlocked" paints should actually be unlocked for all your mechs, not just one chassis. Because unlocking it for one chassis is never worthwhile unless you switch paint jobs every day. (plus, consistency... colors are unlocked for all mechs, not just each chassis)


I believe paints ARE unlocked for all mechs. Camo patterns are unlocked only per chassis.

#11 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 24 November 2015 - 11:33 AM

View PostPraehotec8, on 24 November 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:


I believe paints ARE unlocked for all mechs. Camo patterns are unlocked only per chassis.

^ this

As far as the meta goes. We'll always have a meta of some kind. It shifts as balance changes are made. It's just part of being in an MMO game like this. You're always going to have a min/max style player that believes the only "good" mech is the one that mathematically puts out a superior number on paper. The meta is rarely as "killer" or as widespread as some would like to make it out to be.

I've boated 5+LLs for years now. I've done quite well with them even in the face of dakka superiority (which I still think needs some adjustments to make all weapons more viable as well as mixed weapon loadouts on mechs) and lurmageddon. Even through the implementation of ghost heat. I simply adjusted my play style as needed and adapted to the new mechanics and rules.

What inevitably winds up happening (and why you see an influx of the meta at all levels sometimes) is that you get "copycats". I promise you that even with the current laser meta (based on the forums, I personally haven't seen it really yet), a new player running around in my exact build is going to be nowhere near as effective with it as I am after years of experience in it.
The meta will help a bit, simply because math, but it can't replace experience and personal skill levels. That's why metas never really bother me. They're always shifting and there's generally a select few who are effective and skillful enough to make them nightmares to face (just like real world competition).

#12 -Teiwaz-

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 202 posts
  • Location43°27'N / 80°30'W

Posted 24 November 2015 - 11:35 AM

View PostGamuray, on 24 November 2015 - 09:17 AM, said:

But yes, should be lowered in price. And "unlocked" paints should actually be unlocked for all your mechs, not just one chassis. Because unlocking it for one chassis is never worthwhile unless you switch paint jobs every day. (plus, consistency... colors are unlocked for all mechs, not just each chassis)


I believe by 'paints' you mean camo patterns. If that is the case then I have to disagree, camo is made on a per chassis' basis and should be sold in the same manner, IMHO. If you are not going to be changing your camo then buy the one shot pattern, you can still change your colours as often as you wish, just not the pattern.

Maybe the prices could be adjusted, I'm not sure but the fact is that PGI is a business and not a charity.

#13 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:00 PM

View PostTigersRoar, on 24 November 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:


I believe by 'paints' you mean camo patterns. If that is the case then I have to disagree, camo is made on a per chassis' basis and should be sold in the same manner, IMHO. If you are not going to be changing your camo then buy the one shot pattern, you can still change your colours as often as you wish, just not the pattern.

Maybe the prices could be adjusted, I'm not sure but the fact is that PGI is a business and not a charity.

No, he meant paint. The colors are permanently unlocked for all mechs, the camos are not though. You have to buy a camo per chassis. You can buy the "one shot" camo which will remain "permanent" until changed.

It would be nice to see them add some basic camo patterns available for cbill purchase as well. Maybe add some "homemade" camo patterns for mercs and such. All kinds of things they could do with it.

It would also be nice to see module prices drop. I was going to drop in weapon modules? I just can't see spending 6 millions cbills for my laser has 60 more meters and a very slight increase in RoF. I could buy a new mech for the cost of those two modules. They need to really take a long look at prices. Not just because they should be "cheaper", but to begin to build an in-game economy.

The prices need to be more uniform across the game. A module that increases the range of my LL by 60 meters is going to cost the equivalent of a light mech? That's like saying that the cost of a new exhaust for my Camaro is going to cost as much as buying a second vehicle. That makes no sense at all to me (especially if the module cost as much as the mech it's going on) That makes zero sense in any kind of economy. Little things like this aren't simply asking for "cheaper stuff", it's about creating a more uniform feeling in the universe.

#14 Votanin FleshRender

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Wrath
  • Wrath
  • 518 posts
  • Location3rd rock from the Sun

Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:04 PM

View PostKira Onime, on 24 November 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:


Gona say it now.
This point might be biased depending on which tier you're ranked in., 5 being the lowest 1 the highest. The higher the tier, the more likely you are to see the current meta of gauss/vomit builds followed by pure laser vomit somewhere behind. At the same time, the likelihood of seeing LRMs goes down drastically.

Lower tier matches have a bit of everything.



^^^

If you have recently returned from a year long break, you probably were placed in tier 4. At my tier, I saw, almost exclusively, timbers, crows,ebon jags, hellbies, DWs, almost all with gauss vomit, with SPL cheetahs sprinkled in.

#15 cSand

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,589 posts
  • LocationCanada, eh

Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:05 PM

hey GG's last night Sandpit :D


I hope watching me suck was no too traumatic

#16 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:09 PM

View PostcSand, on 24 November 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

hey GG's last night Sandpit :D


I hope watching me suck was no too traumatic

No way bud, I had a blast. Thanks again for letting me drop with you guys! I still think we got robbed on one or two of those lol

#17 cSand

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,589 posts
  • LocationCanada, eh

Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:30 PM

View PostSandpit, on 24 November 2015 - 12:09 PM, said:

No way bud, I had a blast. Thanks again for letting me drop with you guys! I still think we got robbed on one or two of those lol


Hey you're welcome anytime man. Will be on later tonight I'm thinking if you want some rematches :D

#18 Sandpit

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Veteran Founder
  • Veteran Founder
  • 17,419 posts
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationArkansas

Posted 24 November 2015 - 12:42 PM

View PostcSand, on 24 November 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:


Hey you're welcome anytime man. Will be on later tonight I'm thinking if you want some rematches :D

I'm going to try and be on about the same time tonight. I'll be happy to drop with you guys. It just depends on how much I can get done to the enjin site and some other stuff I need to do lol

#19 Gamuray

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Overlord
  • Overlord
  • 866 posts

Posted 24 November 2015 - 01:04 PM

View PostPraehotec8, on 24 November 2015 - 10:20 AM, said:

I believe paints ARE unlocked for all mechs. Camo patterns are unlocked only per chassis.

View PostSandpit, on 24 November 2015 - 11:33 AM, said:

^ this

View PostTigersRoar, on 24 November 2015 - 11:35 AM, said:

I believe by 'paints' you mean camo patterns. If that is the case then I have to disagree, camo is made on a per chassis' basis and should be sold in the same manner, IMHO. If you are not going to be changing your camo then buy the one shot pattern, you can still change your colours as often as you wish, just not the pattern.

Maybe the prices could be adjusted, I'm not sure but the fact is that PGI is a business and not a charity.

View PostSandpit, on 24 November 2015 - 12:00 PM, said:

No, he meant paint. The colors are permanently unlocked for all mechs, the camos are not though. You have to buy a camo per chassis. You can buy the "one shot" camo which will remain "permanent" until changed.


I can assure you all, by "paints" I was indeed talking of camo's, and by "colors" I meant the paint colors. Apologies for the confusion. Changing words..... now.

#20 -Teiwaz-

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 202 posts
  • Location43°27'N / 80°30'W

Posted 24 November 2015 - 01:15 PM

Gamuray,
My apologies as well. I understand your use of the word 'paint', I still stand by my opinion. The patterns are not generic, they must be made for each mech, furthermore if the mech has a special geometry it needs its own pattern, I'm sure there is a lot of work involved.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users