39 replies to this topic

[Tarogato]

Guide to killing Blackjacks; this is all you need to know:

[Leonidas the First]

The fact is that the clans have far more advantages (better range, lighter weight and more weapons that do more damage) than IS which is why comp and Meta players all go Clans. About the only area the clans do not have an advantage is in laser duration times, a few variants with quirks that allow IS to out range Clans with ER PPCs, and others that give IS and even better advantage with laser duration.

IF and when IS finds a good load out that actually gives them an advantage expect them to use it just like the clans do. How many clan teams take full advantage of the Clan advantages and run nothing but Streak Crows, Timbers and Arctic Cheaters (with hit boxes that cover 50% of its surface)?

I do not want to sound nasty, but posts like this really read to me like, "I run Clans tso I can have an advantage an kick butt 75% of the time, so PGI needs to nerf any advantage IS finds so I can have the distinct advantage I paid for!"

[Tarogato]

Laonidas1, on 29 November 2015 - 07:00 AM, said:

Arctic Cheaters (with hit boxes that cover 50% of its surface)?

Arctic Cheetahs do not really have broken hitboxes. It's a small mech that is difficult to hit and many shots go between its spindly limbs. Full analysis here: https://www.reddit.c...depth_analysis/






Please. Just pleassssee, stop with the stupid "hitboxes!" scapegoat shjt. Maybe work on your aim and learn how to lead targets, esp on high ping players.

Edited by Tarogato, 29 November 2015 - 07:11 AM.

[White Bear 84]

Tarogato, on 29 November 2015 - 07:10 AM, said:

I just see A LOT of spread damage...

[Tarogato]

White Bear 84, on 29 November 2015 - 07:16 AM, said:

I just see A LOT of spread damage...

Well, notice that the reticule doesn't turn red, indicating that the shots by the player (AC/5 and PPC) missed. The player then exclaimed "Arctic Cheetah's are so broke". So that's why I made that GIF, to show him why his shots didn't hit..

[Blue Frog]

Ahh, so that explains why PGI isn't nerfing them more than leg structure in the rebalance. Thanks Tarogato!

[April Showers]

the BJ1X has more surface then a 11 small pulse laser crow, less damage output and less heat capacity. If you cannot kill it with a timber (you can run the C with 6 med ER an 3 lg ER), then get the hell out of that precious first line clan mech

if you really think that inner sphere mech needs a nerf, check out 12 SPL+4MG novas and any version of the timberwolf/stormcrow. go run some training with someone.

and hey BJ1X can have higher alphas. wait until you see them run 2 large pulse and 6 medium. and beware of those only running 6 MPL in there. they tend to not overheat as badly.

stop complaining and start thinking tactics. no need to brawl. let the IS mechs do that. or the 12 SPL Novas.

[Private Backside]

1X is the ultimate predator of Blackjacks, and, possibly, of all IS medium class. wanna kill it? bring friends.
seriously, the only way to kill 1X is to have bad player piloting it.
deal with it. Blackjacks are tough.

[Apocryph0n]

April Showers, on 04 December 2015 - 05:17 AM, said:

if you really think that inner sphere mech needs a nerf, check out 12 SPL+4MG novas and any version of the timberwolf/stormcrow. go run some training with someone.

Somehow I can't take anyone seriously that implies Novas (and even more so: MGs lol) are anywhere close to BlackJacks.

[Appogee]

They already nerfed the BJ-1X prior to Twokayyid.

Enough whining, Clanners. You have plenty of Mechs that outrange and out-alpha almost all the IS Mechs.

I have all the Clan Mechs. You can't BS me about balance.

[Rushin Roulette]

Apocryph0n, on 14 December 2015 - 02:18 AM, said:

Somehow I can't take anyone seriously that implies Novas (and even more so: MGs lol) are anywhere close to BlackJacks.

Actually in a 1v1 Brawl, the Nova will dominate the BJ if both pilots are approximately equal. The Nova has the possibility of using more weapons (higher Damage per shot as alphas are a one way ticket to the End of match screen). However deffinitely not that build... its absolutely waaaay too hot. Better is a 12 ersl build for pinpoint damage and jumpjets to help spread the damage up and down, left and right instead of only left and right with Torsotwisting. Keep the 4MGs (1 DHS) and at least 1 Ton of Ammo (another 1 DHS at least) out in favour of heatsinks.

[Apocryph0n]

Rushin Roulette, on 14 December 2015 - 03:19 AM, said:

Actually in a 1v1 Brawl, the Nova will dominate the BJ if both pilots are approximately equal.

The NVA will never keep up with a BJ-1X though (almost 30kph difference), so it is fair to assume that a halfway decent pilot will emphasize on his mid-range-advantage )

So basically the BJ has: Better Range profile/damage application. Better Hitboxes. A crapton of hitpoints thanks to quirks (Well, Nova does have quirks to survivability too, but in combination with pretty huge hitboxes). Speed. Insane weapon mounts and it runs relatively cool for a 42point-alpha mech.

All these are reasons why the different BJ variants currently dominate all mid-range-medium-mech tier lists.

[Zelumbras]

The BJ-1X is an amazing little 'Mech and pretty much my favourite of them all with several hundred thousand XP still sitting around to be converted

That being said, the BJ-1X is also very vulnerable and requires a lot of thought about positioning and pathing to run effectively. It goes down in 2 volleys (about 3-4 sec) against any skilled heavy pilot but can cripple half the enemy team when left alone due to its high mounted precision lasers.
My personal favourite is running it with 3 LPL. Took a lot of practice but now i can remove enemy 'mech limbs with almost surgical precision at mid range. Basically running around at ~100 kph and whenever i see a friendly 'mech engaged, i will remove some of the enemies main weapons, leg it or put a 33-66 damage dent in their CT armor then move on. Doesn't get a ton of kills this way but the 600+ damage and 10-12 assists/saviour kills together with all those component destructions bring in some big bucks - and who cares about k/d ratio when you can be this effective!

The BJ-1X is a 'mech that greatly rewards skill and thoughtful play but also harshly punishes any mistake. In that sense, it is a truly great little 'mech in my opinion!

[Zelumbras]

Just noticed that instead of giving tips how to counter the BJ-1X, i succumbed to praising it in my above post (not the first time this has happened ).

This 'mech has several weaknesses that you can exploit:
* very low armor, especially in the back on most builds
--> shoot it before it shoots you, it will feel every single point of damage
* usually runs an XL-engine
--> very vulnerable (rear) side torsi
* insufficient torso twist and heat capacity for extended brawling
--> bait them into a missed alpha strike, make them turn, run towards one side immedeately when faced with a 1X etc.
* do not let it get into the game
--> confront it early, never chicken out on a fight unless you can go 130+ kph and have jump jets. Showing a 1X your back is almost a free kill for them but most pilots will not risc a full frontal engagement
* spread damage
--> its weapons are all lasers

[TL;DR]
Think of the BJ-1X as a thin, sharp blade!
When you ignore them, they will cut fast and deep. If you hit them from the side, they easily break.

Edited by Vulcan888, 19 December 2015 - 08:23 AM.

[lbxpryde]

hire a dire wolf to escort you with their disgusting 13 ermedium laser build and ask daddy to protect you from the tiny inner sphere mech.this post is ridiculous trolling.

[maniacos]

Apocryph0n, on 14 December 2015 - 03:38 AM, said:

The NVA will never keep up with a BJ-1X though (almost 30kph difference), so it is fair to assume that a halfway decent pilot will emphasize on his mid-range-advantage )

So basically the BJ has: Better Range profile/damage application. Better Hitboxes. A crapton of hitpoints thanks to quirks (Well, Nova does have quirks to survivability too, but in combination with pretty huge hitboxes). Speed. Insane weapon mounts and it runs relatively cool for a 42point-alpha mech.

All these are reasons why the different BJ variants currently dominate all mid-range-medium-mech tier lists.

BJ are extreme valuable medium mechs but they are quite easy to kill if the enemy knows something about piloting. BJ are powerful glass canons and need a good place in the team to play it's strenght. Along with heavies or assaults they can score good but they will pop like baloons in an 1vs1 with any similar firepower or above. A Timber alpha will much likely kick it's front door wide open and after that an 1X pilot will have to use more cover or the back of a bigger ally to survive resulting in being less aggressive.

Edited by Jherek C, 24 December 2015 - 07:21 AM.

[Joe Decker]

Well, to be honest - BJ-1X was always a great medium Mech. One of my most successful Chassis and I own at least 3 Mechs of any Chassis, be it IS or Clanmechs.

Sure Stormcrows are as dangerous as Blackjacks or even more dangerous - the Difference is just that Stormcrows ALWAYS get focused when they show up while Blackjacks slipped through under the Radar until the Requirkening happened. And Stormcrows are 10 tons heavier also...

Now everyone knows about the high Threat that is a Blackjack 1X.

Have been in a fun 12 Man who ran 9 to 12 Blackjack 1X all the Time and we totally dominated every other Team out there.

So yeah they are very good Mechs, maybe a bit too good for IS Standards - on the other Side the Clanmechs in general got quite a few Advantages and a bit of Teamplay should enable them to also get this new Threat under Control

And if you meet a Blackjack 1X solo in a PUG Match... learn to stay with your Team

And not too long ago we ran a little 1v1 Tournament in our Unit (IS Mechs only) and the final Match was BJ-1X vs Oxide Jenner - wanna know who won ? The Oxide

BJ-1X are especially vulnerable to light Mechs (bring your Cheetah's - I know you can do that )

Edited by Joe Decker, 24 December 2015 - 07:51 AM.

[ColdPsyker1]

The Basilisk, on 26 November 2015 - 12:30 AM, said:

You are Clan, aren't you ???
Seriously how is it even possible that a lowtech underarmored 45T Mech is able to come close enough to you, to effectively use its weapons ?
The Clanmech users I know will just kill a Blackjack, not criple or damage just kill, with two salvos.
Use your Clan lazors with 1.5 times range or your half as weighty SRMs or your mindnumbing sight blurring dakka AKs.
No realy.
I always see Claners trying to get toe to toe to IS Mechs.
The only one thing IS Mechs are infact better due to their lower hps weapons.
Stay at med ranges, 350m and above and focus fire.

lol wut?

praytell; what clan build can "two-shot kill" a BJ when the BJ has the internal structure equivalent of an assault mech?

"stay at 350m away"- more lol; with my medium laser range module, my lasers have a range of 328m, so about equivalent maximum range with the nerfed clan er medium

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I've been leveling Blackjacks lately. Bought a BJ-1 and BJ-3 back in the day, BEFORE the Clan invasion, and then ditched them (like a jackmonkey) because they weren't too great back then. So, after getting my hiney handed to me by them a LOT lately, and seeing them showing up pretty often in CW decks, I thought I'd give it a try.

BJ-1/-1(C): Slow, likely running an XL if it's got BIG ballistic(s). Hence, ammo in the legs. Dat QUERK tho. AC/2s are FUN in that thing. NOT much backup energy there, though, and high heat if there is because 45 tons don't make for lots of heat sinks AND big ballistics.

BJ-1X: Almost CERTAINLY running that XL295. 45 tons doesn't leave a lot of room for that many E weapons AND a bunch of DHS, so may as well blow the weight on a faster engine (114-ish after Speed Tweak). Stay outta the optimal range, keep moving, get good trades, and if the pilot is a scrub (ME, for instance), wait for the inevitable overheat.

BJ-1DC: Better chance of a STD 225 or 235 here, since it's got the 235 engine cap. Heavy ballistics mean XL, though. 81.0 un-tweaked with the XL225, which ain't bad for an IS medium. With FOUR torso E hard points, it's tempting to toss lotsa green in there, or even some reds. Anyhow, HEAT. There's that 25% ballistic heat reduction quirk, so don't count on that. Big ballistics mean leg it or side-torso it. MGs or no ballistics? That's a STD, so make it have to expose those ST E slots to get trades with you, and carve 'em off.

BJ-3: JJs and low engine cap and PPC querks? Heck, even running ERLLs or LPLs, it's a vicious little thing. But again, LIKELY running an XL to save weight for bigger E weapons. No ballistic, so don't bother with the legs unless they're already open. Armpit it.

Arrow: Easiest of the bunch, I think. Stay out of MG range unless your armor is in GOOD shape. It has to expose a LOT of torso to get the E weapons on you, and like all but the -1X, it's capped at 235, so 84.x un-tweaked km/h. I'd trade a LOT to swap places between the E and B hard points on this thing, so it could peek/hump/pop with those arm mounts and MG you to death when it's too close to get behind cover anyhow, but that's life. Anyhow, stay outta MG range and make it expose torso to trade, then carve you off some of that.

I say this NOT as some MWO expert. I'm a scrub, after all. But rather, I say this as someone who has been either ripping 3-4 kill matches or losing his @$$, with no real middle ground, in this mech. Mostly, I lose on getting in a bad position or getting in bad trades, because (broken record) I suck at MWO. I'm telling you, though, when I feel on my game, the above is how someone brings me back down to Earth and crushes my soul. Or, it's what they DON'T manage to do when I go a' carvin' their doodz to pieces with that landlubbin' -1X...

Wanna survive the Blackjack? Hell, I didn't have to tell you. It's been said a gazillion times in this thread already. Make 'em expose ST, carve it off, GG CLOSE...

[Bluttrunken]

The Blackjack needs some of it's structure quirks revisited. It's ridiculous how much damage it can soak *after* it's armor has been stripped. Combine this with an excellent energy hardpoint amount+layout+decent quirks and you have a mech far outclassing itself. PGI should have raked in all additional money from selling BJ bundles by now anyway. Time to nerf. I think I see way more BJ's than Stormcrows atm.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 28 December 2015 - 09:33 PM.