18 replies to this topic

[Morggo]

It's embarrassing but I'll go ahead and say it for the sake of the newer players that may not have gotten to it either...

In a couple matches I have fallen in love with chainfire. I ignored it as some "silly bothersome feature I didn't need to use or learn." Well, for "kicks" today I decided to look into it.

NOW I get what all you guys are saying about it, especially on my hotter builds. It shouldn't be a crutch, but wow it makes a difference. My shutdowns dropped off and I'm doing a bit more dmg per match.

I still need to get used to the timing that it's not an immediate Alpha effect, but I have to say I'm liking it... a lot.

As a question to the experienced guys... now that I'm actually paying attention to Chainfire... any tips, tricks, do's and do not's with it?

Morggo, the ever learning

[Roughneck45]

I mainly use chain fire for lasers. I'll have two groups for one set of lasers, one group to alpha and the other group to chain fire so I can use them both during the match.

Edited by Roughneck45, 27 November 2015 - 12:11 PM.

[Ballimbo]

Some points concerning Chainfire:

1. The time it takes between firing each weapon in chainfire is 0.5 seconds or "shooting-duration" of that weapon, whichever is higher. So if chaining balistics, which shoot instantly, each weapon will trigger 0.5 seconds after the one before. On the other hand, lasers will take the whole shooting duration of one weapon before the next starts shooting. For example Medium Lasers have a duration (unquirked) of 0.9 seconds.

2. As a generale rule, your mech won't dissipate heat when you keep chainfiring (especially lasers). There could possibly be some exceptions to this (if your heat-dissipation is greater than the heat a weapons produces, like maybe with small lasers and many heatsinks), but normally you won't. So being on critical heat and continously chainfiring lasers will still shut down your mech eventually. So watch your heat even when chaining.

3. Keep in mind that your giving your enemy more "face-time" when chaining fire (again, especially with lasers, because of their duration). There are situations I would recommend to twist away (giving some time to cooling off) and then shoot again a volley instead of chainfiring (smaller) lasers and getting it big time in return.

4. There are some situations apart from heat-issues where chainfire can be put to good use. When you have a fast moving target whirling around (most notably lights), you get better results with chainfiring while chasing your target than blasting out an alpha but missing it. Lasers are especially useful at this. But had also some success with SRMs doing this.
An other such situation could be while you're trying to headshot an opponent. Fire one single lasers and adjust your aim till you're hitting the cockpit, and then let loose with your remaining alpha. This works for other "aiming" situations too off course.

5. Chainfiring can be used to keep the cockpit-shaking up on the enemy mech. This holds true only for weapons which actually do shake the target. But there are some of those. Namely LRM's, SRM's and AC's. Generally the smaller ones, which shoot faster. There are some builds out there which are purposely designed around this.

6. Don't forget that you can shoot two or more groups on chainfire simultanesly. Let's say you have 2 Large Pulse Lasers in one group, and 4 Medium Lasers in the second group. Now you could shoot them (alpha) both at once, getting a good bunch of heat in doing so, or instead, you set both on chainfire and then shoot them continously. So you will be shooting one LPL and one ML at the sime time. Don't know if this combination of LPL and ML is really that good in using it like this, but you get the idea. Can save you some precious seconds of doing damage instead of going into shutdown.

7. Don't put different weapons into one group for chaining them. There could be some combinations which can possibly work, but generally it is not a good idea.

8. And finally, I wouldn't recommend to chainfire Gauss rifles.

Edited by Ballimbo, 27 November 2015 - 04:08 PM.

[Tarogato]

Chainfire is bad. Hear me out, here.

You always want to deal all your damage at once in a well-aimed concentrated shot with minimal exposure time. If you are using chainfire, it lengthens the amount of time that you have to "stay on target" and has an adverse effect on your accuracy and consistency (i.e., it causes you to spread your damage). It also increases your face time, and more face time is always a bad thing because it gives the enemy more opportunity to shoot you.

Instead, you want to use your positioning to dictate your heat. If you are running hot, instead of staying in the thick of battle and chainfiring, try to use the opportunity to reposition to a safer location and re-engage when you can safely alphastrike again multiple times. You need to plan ahead, not get in over your head, and place your shots where they matter. For instance, I have an Arctic Cheetah with 6x ER mediums. It's hella hot, it hits over 60% heat on just one alpha. But by careful positioning, I almost never overheat in that thing unless I know it is safe to do so. I also have multiple weapon groups set up so that I can fire in smaller concentrated bursts (one group for three lasers on the left, one group for three on the right, one for the four in the arms, and one for the two high mounts). But I never use chainfire - I place my shots accurately in concentrated pokes and focus components, minimising my exposure to the enemy and maximising my accuracy.

[ice trey]

There are great times for chainfiring. For example:

Avoiding ghost heat that would otherwise almost guarantee shutting down. 4PPCs, for example

Weapons made to rattle your opponents' cockpit, like LRM5 versions of the Kintaro

When you're boating one weapons system, and you have weapons groups to spare. Sometimes you want the short pinpoint damage, but others, you want DPS before shutdown. For example, flashbulbs like my Quickdraw 5K that is nothing but MLs.

Worth noting for chainfire, though. some weapons systems have such fast recycle times that it's not really worth it to use chainfire. Machine Guns and AC2s are examples of this. Another example is that if you have 4ML on chain fire, it essentially acts as one continuous medium laser. Any more than this and your mech is not being used to it's full potential.

[dragnier1]

Use chain fire sparingly, and not for all weapon types. I try not to chain fire lasers as much as possible, it gives you less time to back off or torso twist. You get cored pretty fast that way.

[Hawk_eye]

Isn´t chain-fire quite useful for missiles with re. to missile spread?

Say I mount several SRM-4/6 launchers. Wouldn´t launching them all in group-fire mode increase the spread quite considerably, whereas using chain-fire would keep the spread kinda manageable?

[_____]

I'd only use chainfire on weapons that cause screenshake, LRMs and ACs, and even then most of the time it's better to alpha (or separate into ghost-heat-less weapon groups).

Chainfiring lasers on the other hand is simply a fallback for people who can't control their fire. Learn to control the urge to click the mouse button when you're hot and estimate how many weapons you can fire given your current heat level, and you'll never have to chain fire again. You'll kill more stuff because you're actually concentrating damage and you'll die less because you don't have to stare at enemies and expose your CT for so long.

In MWO there's a lot of workarounds people do to avoid fixing the real underlying problem. For example, playing only LRMs because the player can't aim well or can't position well to avoid getting shot. Unfortunately chainfiring lasers fall into this category.

[Rogue Jedi]

Antecursor Venatus, on 28 November 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Isn´t chain-fire quite useful for missiles with re. to missile spread?

Say I mount several SRM-4/6 launchers. Wouldn´t launching them all in group-fire mode increase the spread quite considerably, whereas using chain-fire would keep the spread kinda manageable?

yes, chain-firing SRMs greatly increases the damage you do, if too many missiles are flying not only do they spread out but they also can have hit registration issues,
if I am firing more than 8 SRMs I almost always have them set to chain fire, but rather than hold down fire and fire every half second I just rapidly tap the fire button that way you are not waiting half a second but still bypass the spread and hit-reg issues.

if I am running a hot Mech I will usualy have several weapon groups (e.g. left arm, right arm, torso), 1 will be chain fire, I can usualy keep chain-firing far longer than you can keep alpha striking, hence remaining on the front line rather than falling back to cool off

[Hawk_eye]

Rogue Jedi, on 28 November 2015 - 02:21 AM, said:

yes, chain-firing SRMs greatly increases the damage you do, if too many missiles are flying not only do they spread out but they also can have hit registration issues,
if I am firing more than 8 SRMs I almost always have them set to chain fire, but rather than hold down fire and fire every half second I just rapidly tap the fire button that way you are not waiting half a second but still bypass the spread and hit-reg issues.

That´s what I was doing (rapidly firing them). After reading about the 0.5 second thingy I wasn´t sure if that applied to missile spread too. Thanks for clearing that up.

[SnagaDance]

One time when I use lasers on chainfire is when I'm retreating into cover to cool off, but I'm facing a mech near to death. I don't want to shut down and be caught by one of his friends but I'd also like to take that mech out of the game.

[Ano]

While I agree with Tarogato and BlackhawkSC to a large extent, I still always have a chainfire group (it's always mouse button 4*) on any mech that has more than two energy weapons.

I very rarely use it, for the good reasons already given, but IMO it's worth having a chainfire group if you've a spare button to assign it to. I would still argue that there *are* times that being able to fire a variable number of weapons is useful, and it's not always possible (whether because of hardware, because of other weapon systems or simply because of co-ordination) to have separate firing groups for 2, 3, 4 lasers at a time.

It's also quite handy to have a button you can press to serve as a laser pointer for your team


* I try to be somewhat consistent in how I assign weapons to buttons, so 4 is almost always a chainfire group, 3 (middle) tends to be an "arms" group, and 1+2 are either different weapon types or left side/right side. If I don't, I get all kinds of confused...

Edited by Ano, 28 November 2015 - 09:42 AM.

[JC Daxion]

I find chain fire limited, but when you need to use it is a good idea.. For example, on my deaths Kneel, and i get hot, i run lasers in pairs, verse 4..

Some mechs, that have SRM's that are spread in different parts of the mech, like right/left torso.. At times i will chain them to tighten the spread.

The only other time i chain, is when in a brawl that you can't bail on, and the other guy is near death.. You chain, and hope he doesn't and shuts down, and it is lights out.

I guess one last thing you could chain, are ac-5's or ac2's to use as suppression fire.. I've seen this done well a bunch of times.. Just a single mech holding off a tight pass because everytime they peak they get hit, and often they can't tell what is hitting them, so they drop back. Works well to hold mechs while the rest of the team makes a move.

[Morggo]

Great discussion, thanks all!

So I moved my SRM's to chain... yep, that's where my better heat management and damage is coming from.
Energy I'm back to selectively firing but chain is working a treat on missles.

Morg

[mailin]

I can't stress enough the usefullness of chain fire when facing an enemy light. Lasers and missiles are best at this. Chain fire on an enemy light and aim low to get their legs. It doesn't take long to take out a leg and then it's open season.

[Chados]

I use it on LRMs, basically. It helps to conserve ammo in a long fight with a lot of cover. You don't shoot a whole 30 missile salvo all at once that just hits a building when the target ducks.

[Rogue Jedi]

Chados, on 29 November 2015 - 06:52 AM, said:

I use it on LRMs, basically. It helps to conserve ammo in a long fight with a lot of cover. You don't shoot a whole 30 missile salvo all at once that just hits a building when the target ducks.

yes chain fire helps reduce the spread of LRMs but packing 5+ LRM5 on chain-fire makes you extremely annoying and rather effective, LRM5 spread is so low that most will hit CT, and with 5+ launchers you are firing more or less constantly, do this at 180-500m, with your own lock and if possible your own tag and Artemus and you will cause accurate damage with the LRMs and the enemy will have trouble seeing well enough to fire back with all the screen shake constant LRM5 hits provide

[Boulangerie]

You can also use chain fire to make most multi ballistics into annoying dakka machines.

Example:
4 AC/5 Jager S
Bind all AC/5 to group 1.
Bind all AC/5 to group 2 with chainfire

Tap group 2 four times quickly, then just hold down Group 1. The recycle rates are all now staggered, and you can just keep pumping out the damage. This is for annoying people mostly, it's not as good as the 20 pinpoint damage. It can be very intimidating as well.

[Anachronda]

Morggo, on 27 November 2015 - 12:05 PM, said:

As a question to the experienced guys... now that I'm actually paying attention to Chainfire... any tips, tricks, do's and do not's with it?

First I should say that weapon group 1, 2, and 3 are set to the 1st 2nd and 3rd mouse buttons and I don't make more than three weapon groups. I design my mechs around that, and when I can I set the first and second group to left and right weapons respectively. I kind of have a mental system which helps me keep track of what the weapons are on a given set.

There are in general four times I will use chainfire:

The first which comes to mind is what I do on my Thunderbolt 5SS with medium pulse lasers. On that mech I have the first two weapon groups set to different sets of lasers, which I usually hit one after the other, helping manage heat while still basically doing the same damage. My third group includes all of the lasers but is set to chainfire. That way, if I get kind of hot firing the first two groups, I can still fire, keeping the heat on them while managing my heat better. It keeps me firing more and longer. The third group is occasionally helpful with dealing with lights or taking a quick finisher before training all the rest of the weapons on the next target.

The second is with autocannons. Autocannons cause cockpit shake every time they hit. If you fire them chainfire, they are causing the shaking more often/constantly and confusing your opponent. I like taking my mechs with four autocannons and putting them in two separate chainfired groups. If I time it right, clicking the second button slightly after the first, it staggers them so there is a steady stream without any gaps. Unloading like that is very satisfying and effective. It's also useful in tracking moving lights in case I miss or something.

The third is on some mechs which, because of my above limitations, end up with something rather hot grouped together in one group. For instance on one mech I have ppcs together in one group, which are fairly hot. So I have them on chainfire, but I don't generally hold down the button in that case. I fire one then press to fire the other. That way I can adjust my aim and manage my heat. It really doesn't make a lot of difference in my damage except for actually helping it in cases where my first ppc is dodged or something, and helps heat quite a bit.

Fourth would be in a case where the group of weapons are fine to fire together, but generate a lot of heat and might need a short rest. What I am thinking of here, for instance is what I did with an lrm boat I built. The lrms are on the third group, and I keep the highlighting on that group. If I need to keep firing after firing a couple volleys I will quickly hit backspace and put them on chainfire. I usually click instead of holding in this case, therefore continuing to fire while still dissipating heat. See if you hold the button down it doesn't dissipate, but if you click singularly it does between clicks, and chainfire simply cycles between weapons. Once heat gets down again I switch it back off for full volleys. I can also use this to conserve ammo. On the Thunderbolt example above I usually do hold the button down and watch the heat climb.

In all of these cases the benefit of chainfire is the ability to maintain a steady stream of fire with hardly a pause. Like when my Thunderbolt faces off against an enemy I'm constantly firing and doing damage as opposed to firing and waiting and giving them a chance to fire back unopposed. And I also have flexibility in managing heat, being able to fire in situations where firing the normal weapon set, or without chainfire, would lead to an immediate shutdown, something you never want.

Edited by Anachronda, 03 December 2015 - 03:51 AM.