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Why The Bad Reputation?


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#1 Scifi Toughguy

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 12:07 PM

I have only been playing the game for a few months but one thing has stuck out to me (painfully) is the poor reputation Davion has as pilots and a faction. How did this come about and how can we change it?

#2 Tom Sawyer

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 12:12 PM

Beats OUR reputation. Hey Tony can you pass the beriberi sauce? This baby seal we just clubbed with our over powered ubber mechs needs more tenderizing.

#3 Dawnstealer

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 12:15 PM

Far, far back in days of yore, in the first round of CW, when all was new and bright, House Davion ruled the roost. They blew through House Liao and there was talk about what would happen when a House was down to its last world (although they weren't to that point yet). They took huge bites out of Kurita's southern border. They even started taking swipes at Marik and, yes, Steiner.

CW was far more populated in those days and unfortunately for Davion, a couple things happened: the big merc units left for more lucrative contracts; people wanted to get in on the Clan Onslaught tearing its way through the FRR, Steiner, and Kurita; and the other factions kind of got tired of Davion's attacks and responded.

This happened at a bad time for Davion: Liao was really underpopulated in those days and there's only so many times you can ghost-drop a planet away before it becomes boring; players left CW; the huge units that Davion had also depopulated.

So what happened is that everyone started tearing into Davion just as they lost their population, most experienced units, and people started giving up on the Clan front.

The bad blood stuck around, the population didn't come back, annnnnnnnd that brings us to now.

#4 White Bear 84

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 09:20 PM

View PostScifi Toughguy, on 02 December 2015 - 12:07 PM, said:

I have only been playing the game for a few months but one thing has stuck out to me (painfully) is the poor reputation Davion has as pilots and a faction. How did this come about and how can we change it?


Factions that are salty about having to try to make up for something they lack perhaps...

Davion get great fights against the clan turkey and the clan puppy dog. Can't remember the last time I saw bad blood..

#5 TheSilken

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 09:29 PM

The problem is that the core of Davion is made up of casual lore heads. Nothing wrong with that at all and many are very friendly players but unfortunately their skills are usually lacking compared to other faction's core players since they focus much more heavily on playing the game their own way (as opposed to playing the system) and/or roleplaying. The only way to change the perspective on Davion is if the majority of those players were to change their ways and start playing the game more seriously. Personally I like the Davion charm that these players have created, even if most are complete ****. Posted Image

Edited by TheSilken, 02 December 2015 - 09:30 PM.


#6 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 02 December 2015 - 09:43 PM

For those who join due to lore, Davion is supposed to be the "White Knights", unfortunately like anything else, beat them enough and not give them any direction, ya end up with bad behaviors. There are decent players in Davion, but it tends to be one extreme or the other with very little in between. Had several bad interactions with Davions when going from EGA 3025 to MPBT Solaris, ended up joining the DCMS for House Kurita (currently on IS tour in MWO).

And until the last reset on CW, House Davion, Liao and Marik could only obtain defensive contracts vs Clans from the other 3 Houses, thus few incentive to stay with said houses. And right now, there is no real game incentive to be loyal to any faction, or to even join a faction unless you intend to play CW. It is like Everquest in its heyday, Raids became the centerpiece but there was still lots to do for the groupers, and even the raiders had to hit the group game to regain experience, level up and gain AA, etc. Atm CW is not even close to being the centerpiece of the game, and I am not sure it will ever get there. /shrugs

#7 TheArisen

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Posted 03 December 2015 - 12:16 AM

Dawnstealer hit the nail on the head. Davion currently doesn't have any big strong units. The occasional big merc unit but yeah.

Another thing is Davion pugs tend to bring Lrms, and in CW Lrms aren't the best (generally) to bring.

Tbh, I think the reputation is hyperbolic but it is what it is.

#8 Dreammirror

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:56 AM

A lot of reasons to play Davion lay mostly on the Lore from the books, since they are most often the focus of the novels and represented as the good guys(usually). In this game however, Davion suffers (as does Marik and Liao) from being away from the clan border. All the action is up in the north with Steiner, Kurita, and especially FFR. If you don't want to spend your time just defending another nation's worlds from the clans, your only options are attack your neighbors--which some players refuse to do. As a result, people get bored and leave the southern nations for the action up north. The end.

#9 Mordin Ashe

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 11:10 AM

Why? Toxic community, good guys syndrome, too many casual players. In this order.

Edited by Mordin Ashe, 09 December 2015 - 11:10 AM.


#10 Narcissistic Martyr

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 11:16 AM

Unlike in the TT universe they don't have plot armor to protect them.

#11 Javin

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 03:48 PM

I truly do not know why Davion has a bad rep. Everyone I meet is pretty friendly, willing to work together, and teach new players.

#12 Repasy Cooper

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 04:44 PM

It has nothing to do with the game obviously, purely a phenomenon caused by the players. For a time, it seemed like Davion was a powerhouse of skill. Then, all the skilled players left Davion, to pursue conquest against the Clans and other Great Houses as Warriors of Steiner, FRR, and Kurita, due to their being closer to the action, or they defected to the Clans to make use of newly purchased 'mech packs (namely, MercStar)... While that's not really the case anymore, this association has stuck. As a pug, I admittedly do not see even Davion units as a threat anymore. I've been trying to work this out, but it's hard as for a while there was no competition coming out of Davion space (or Liao, for that matter). Strangely, Marik did not suffer the same fate. I'm unsure whether this is attributed to fan popularity, or for some other reason.

#13 Mistress Lilium Magnus

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 04:53 PM

The constant resets and mercenary rotations have made history mean moot. Davion has the worst reputation for one and only one reason.

They have the most PuGs, the worst PuGs, and as Silken put it, are largely comprised of "casual lore-heads."

A Davion will always be the only one on your CW drop who brings a LRM boat. Or a NARC scout. (And NEVER both together.)

Edited by Lilium Magnus the Bloodwitch, 09 December 2015 - 04:53 PM.


#14 Neput Z34

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 05:51 PM

Davions have bad reputation, because:

1: It is the first faction choice on the list and has a "cool" emblem. So a lot of "new" people who don't know any better pick it.

2: Wazan, was one of the most fought over planets, in the early days, before the Clans. To the point where it's name became a battle cry "WAAAghZAAAAAAN!!!".

[CORRECTION]
3: The only Davin loyalist unit that put up tough fight, was the 66AL 66AH, cannot vouch for the rest. Haven't seen any of the 66th Argyle Lancers Avalon Hussars for quite some time either.

4: Plus all the comments above.

Edited by Neput Z34, 10 December 2015 - 03:40 PM.


#15 White Bear 84

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:44 PM

View PostRepasy, on 09 December 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Then, all the skilled players left Davion, to pursue conquest against the Clans and other Great Houses as Warriors of Steiner, FRR, and Kurita, due to their being closer to the action, or they defected to the Clans to make use of newly purchased 'mech packs (namely, MercStar)...


While true there are merc units that left Davion and other pilots that have defected to other factions, Davion still has its fair share of skilled players by all means... ...I can vouch that we have some prominent and effect CW leadership as well, particularly from the HHoD unit (you guys know who you are Posted Image)

View PostLilium Magnus the Bloodwitch, on 09 December 2015 - 04:53 PM, said:

They have the most PuGs, the worst PuGs, and as Silken put it, are largely comprised of "casual lore-heads."

A Davion will always be the only one on your CW drop who brings a LRM boat. Or a NARC scout. (And NEVER both together.)


Well possibly true regarding pugs, but have seen plenty that do and can pull their weight. On the flip side, the coordination between davion units at the moment is pretty damn good - this was more than evident in the Tukayyid event with HHoD, ARMD, RRB, 31HS, AW, TOG and many more units all banding together to form up multiple groups.

It is an honour to have led 12 man groups that consisted of players from not only 2/3 units at a time, but also pugs & then go on to win consecutive matches all afternoon on the final day of the event. (On a side note for the best part we didn't have any LRM boats or NARC mechs in those matches...). Can't say I could call out anyone on the teams I led that did pull their weight.

Whatever you think though, at the end of the day the Davion pilots we typically drop with are committed, dedicated and passionate players. To me that is Davion.

View PostNeput Z34, on 09 December 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

2: Wazan, was one of the most fought over planets, in the early days, before the Clans. To the point where it's name became a battle cry "WAAAghZAAAAAAN!!!".


The wounds from Wazan are still sore.. ..that was one bitterly contested planet. How many days (months?) did we fight over it lol. #neverforget

Edited by White Bear 84, 09 December 2015 - 10:46 PM.


#16 MischiefSC

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Posted 09 December 2015 - 10:52 PM

Davion also excelled, out of the gate, with faction coordination. We had a huge population and a faction Teamspeak that like 90% of units used. We coordinated fronts, we had consistent and regular communication between units to coordinate tactics. What a lot of people miss is that in the early days it's not that we had more players than Marik/Liao/Kurita (and for a time Steiner) put together - we just really, really excelled at shifting 12man drops from location to location. You'd have 4 12mans all grinding on the Liao front until we had it sewn up enough there wasn't time for them to flip it then literally in a few minutes all 4 of them would be dropping on the Marik front.

A lot of bad blood happened and a lot of units left. Beyond that we just sorta hit this threshold - we coordinated, we kicked a$$ and we focused on winning worlds and.... it meant nothing. The problem with going at something 110% is that when you realize what you're putting in 110% effort for is worth, maybe, 40%, well, you tend to re-evaluate a lot.

When some very skilled keystone units left it became harder and harder to motivate people to coordinate the same way. We also had a peculiar response to that among what you could call '2nd tier' units and players - those people who were good, coordinated and focused, when the 1st tier players left. It's like we just sorta doubled-down on bad habits. LRMs are a great example. I am absolutely 100% convinced that there's a good sized segment of the Davion population that runs LRMs specifically because everyone else says they are bad. There's some similar attitudes about bad tactics. Perhaps it's a reflex to the centralized authority we had, maybe it's just pushing back against so many people trying to get you to change, it's hard to say.

There's some awesome people in Davion. However almost everyone left recognizes how utterly pointless CW is and will be for the forseable future. There's nothing in Phase 3 that gives any purpose or reason to be house loyalist units, it's still something PGI is actively punishing. No reason to win, really. Other than grinding rewards.

Groups go in cycles. If PGI ever gives 1/10th of one single flying f**k about CW having some purpose or not literally punishing units and players for faction loyalty (loyalty points. How ironic is that?) you may see a sudden upsurge in Davion. Currently though whatever else you can say.... Davion fills drops. Probably fills more drops than Liao, Marik and Steiner put together in most 24 hour periods. They do it on a lot of fronts and they bring LRMs and periodically they decide to go with bad ideas, but they show up and fill matches, even though the whole game is more or less stacked against them. That's got its own sort of cred.

#17 Outcast1six

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Posted 13 December 2015 - 06:15 PM

View PostNeput Z34, on 09 December 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

Davions have bad reputation, because:

1: It is the first faction choice on the list and has a "cool" emblem. So a lot of "new" people who don't know any better pick it.

2: Wazan, was one of the most fought over planets, in the early days, before the Clans. To the point where it's name became a battle cry "WAAAghZAAAAAAN!!!".

[CORRECTION]
3: The only Davin loyalist unit that put up tough fight, was the 66AL 66AH, cannot vouch for the rest. Haven't seen any of the 66th Argyle Lancers Avalon Hussars for quite some time either.

4: Plus all the comments above.


Thanks. That means a lot. WE have been on tour like a lot of other units. Mostly like everyone else cruising the northern part of the map for the clan v IS fights

#18 PerfectDuck

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 02:15 AM

It also needs to be brought up that they're all clanners. They'll deny it, but Dear Coordinator sees through their ruse.

View PostNeput Z34, on 09 December 2015 - 05:51 PM, said:

has a "cool" emblem.


Posted Image

#19 jaxjace

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 02:28 AM

View PostPerfectDuck, on 14 December 2015 - 02:15 AM, said:

It also needs to be brought up that they're all clanners. They'll deny it, but Dear Coordinator sees through their ruse.



Posted Image

Okay that was a pretty awesome burn.

#20 Czarr

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Posted 14 December 2015 - 06:32 AM

My theory is that house davion has a bad reputation cause early in CW beta 1, they didn't help any other IS factions while they were being attacked by the clans. That i remember Davion speaking so highly of themselves early on, they had an incredible recruiting effort early before CW was released and it was believed they would be a faction to be reckon with based on how they bragged about themselves. But when CW finally came out, all the merc units left...maybe they had a bad experience in Davion and therefore that bad reputation was started, it's the same story with Smoke Jag who was at one point the best clan faction. Once everyone left Smoke Jag, they were done for

Edited by Czarr, 14 December 2015 - 06:32 AM.






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