55 replies to this topic

[Alec Braca]

Odins Steed, on 06 December 2015 - 12:30 PM, said:

There are actually people worth poaching in the FRR?

Considering the jags got 8th place out of 10, beaten by all their Clan brethren and only did better than FWL and Liao? You may want to run the numbers again. Can't argue with that.

[old man odin]

Alec Braca, on 07 December 2015 - 03:47 PM, said:

Considering the jags got 8th place out of 10, beaten by all their Clan brethren and only did better than FWL and Liao? You may want to run the numbers again. Can't argue with that.

You get that population was the most important factor in this event, right? Just because you've got the most warm bodies doesn't mean there's anybody worth poaching here. Unless you're really desperate to get your hands on some banners or something.

Mean while, CSJ is home to teams like SJR and CSJx. The FRR has what, the Isengrim?

[Bud Crue]

Odins Steed, on 07 December 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

You get that population was the most important factor in this event, right? Just because you've got the most warm bodies doesn't mean there's anybody worth poaching here. Unless you're really desperate to get your hands on some banners or something.

So your contention, or perhaps the better word is -excuse- for poor performance by the Smoke Jags is because they lack "warm bodies", and the only reason the FRR did so well is because it has a huge population?
Wow. I had no idea that we were the largest faction of the inner sphere. Also, I guess Clan Wolf must have more "warm bodies" than all the other clans combined; more than most of the inner sphere.

Or maybe there was another reason they did so well. I wonder what it could be? hmm.

In any case your contention/excuse is an interesting perspective. Does make me wonder however, why these forums are full of clanners complaining about low population.

Thanks for the unique perspective.

[Alec Braca]

Odins Steed, on 07 December 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

You get that population was the most important factor in this event, right? Just because you've got the most warm bodies doesn't mean there's anybody worth poaching here. Unless you're really desperate to get your hands on some banners or something.

Mean while, CSJ is home to teams like SJR and CSJx. The FRR has what, the Isengrim?

The FRR is full of great people who are fun to drop with. I am not a competitive player so I really don't care if I'm on a "good" team. Are you a "good" player or just on a "good" team? You seem to have a crappy attitude for the FRR.

[SuperAtomicAirplane]

Odins Steed, on 07 December 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

The FRR has what, the Isengrim?

You're goddamn right it does.

[P H O X]

The FRR has something YOU would never experience!

[old man odin]

Bud Crue, on 07 December 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

Wow. I had no idea that we were the largest faction of the inner sphere. Also, I guess Clan Wolf must have more "warm bodies" than all the other clans combined; more than most of the inner sphere.

Well, yeah. Between MS, CWI, SWOL and 228 the largest units were all Wolf for the event. I can't think of another unit that were CSJ, CJF or CGB that are nearly as large as the four. The same is true for the FRR. Hell, you've got posts on these very forums about having to expand the FRR hub!

You'll see once they release the unit stats for the Tuk like they did last time.

Alec Braca, on 07 December 2015 - 04:54 PM, said:

The FRR is full of great people who are fun to drop with. I am not a competitive player so I really don't care if I'm on a "good" team. Are you a "good" player or just on a "good" team? You seem to have a crappy attitude for the FRR.

Mate, this whole comment chain was about poaching players. Who the hell tries to poach players which aren't good?

Edited by Odins Steed, 07 December 2015 - 09:46 PM.

[P H O X]

So, if i understood correctly:

You jumped on the Meta"duck", leaving the FRR behind, even if u were asked not to do? You disqualified yourself in my opinion even further...

[Tarogato]

SuperAtomicAirplane, on 07 December 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

You're goddamn right it does.

Hardly. We don't exactly play CW, so do we even really count?

[old man odin]

Polarphox, on 07 December 2015 - 05:17 PM, said:

So, if i understood correctly:

You jumped on the Meta"duck", leaving the FRR behind, even if u were asked not to do?

Could you try again, but be coherent this time? I've got no idea what you're saying.

[Sjorpha]

The thing that DaFrog is talking about is when the leader of a unit with mixed skill levels pulls together the "A-team" to one group.

I'm sorry, but in my opinion you HAVE to do this a few times per week. If the good players in a unit is to improve further they can't spend all their time carrying less good players, they also need to form up and go more competitive so they can compete with each other and not go soft.

It's also fun for them to play together with equals sometimes, if you deny them the right to do this within the unit they will get bored with the constant carrying and leave for a more competitive unit that doesn't take bad players. But if you allow them form up into a strong team sometimes they'll be more happy carrying you the rest of the time.

You have to understand that those players you see drafted like that is probably very happy to get a break from the babysitting, it can actually be quite taxing to be a good player in a unit that accepts all recruits and where you constantly have to teach and carry. I mean I'll gladly do it often, taking care of newbies is important and fun, but I need my A-team drops too.

I get that is sucks to be left behind like that, but you really have to understand that it is part of what a unit needs to do to not lose every good player it has. I mean it's better to have good players in your group sometimes than never, right?

[Tarogato]

Bud Crue, on 07 December 2015 - 04:44 PM, said:

So your contention, or perhaps the better word is -excuse- for poor performance by the Smoke Jags is because they lack "warm bodies", and the only reason the FRR did so well is because it has a huge population? Wow. I had no idea that we were the largest faction of the inner sphere. Also, I guess Clan Wolf must have more "warm bodies" than all the other clans combined; more than most of the inner sphere. Or maybe there was another reason they did so well. I wonder what it could be? hmm. In any case your contention/excuse is an interesting perspective. Does make me wonder however, why these forums are full of clanners complaining about low population. Thanks for the unique perspective.

Odin is right. This event favours population. More wins = more points. More players = more wins in volume. This should be clear from the stats when PGI releases them. In the mean time, here are the stats from the Tukayyid 1.

Official from PGI: http://mwomercs.com/...yid-unit-stats/

Here is a spreadsheet that shows the Win/Loss ratios (WLR) of the FRR units and what rank they would be according to WLR. You can see that their ranking in the tournament correlates with the number of matches played, which correlates with the number of players in the unit that participated. More members = more wins = better ranking.

https://docs.google....dit?usp=sharing

Units like [2323] got completely boned by this "total wins" system. They had the 6th best win rating but got ranked 17th because they didn't have enough warm bodies to get that total win count up. Same with [BoS] and [BVNJ]. A unit like [1stH] was 19th in win rating, but because they had so many players they were able to chalk up the wins in volume and ultimately finished 5th place.

Odins Steed, on 07 December 2015 - 05:21 PM, said:

Could you try again, but be coherent this time? I've got no idea what you're saying.

Odin, this is clearly an FRR matter and doesn't involve you...

Edited by Tarogato, 07 December 2015 - 06:20 PM.

[sycocys]

Jonathan Paine, on 06 December 2015 - 10:07 PM, said:

Wait, wait!!! Leaders can tell people what to do and they listen?!?

JP did you say something? I think your mic is broken or on mute again.

[Bud Crue]

Tarogato, I get what Odin's Steed is saying, I just think he is being disingenuous here in his effort to troll on the FRR. Why he is choosing to do this is another matter. I do find his communication with Mech the Dane interesting though.

[Alec Braca]

Odins Steed, on 07 December 2015 - 05:07 PM, said:

Mate, this whole comment chain was about poaching players. Who the hell tries to poach players which aren't good?

Ok big guy, I understand what you're saying. I know a lot of players and in my opinion they are good. The FRR does not have many competitive units as compared to mercs or other houses and that's OK but in the Tukayyid event, you need to "win" to get points so it's not like we have a bunch of incompetent players gaining all those points right?

[DaFrog]

DOUBLE FACEPALM.
You all win. I quit.

Which actually I did mid-event as I thought that leader showed what his true goal was: netting more cash for him and a few of his mates. We still loss the event regardless.

I led on the last day, a good dozen fights. Didn't have what some might consider comp players, but we won 8-9 of them by using tactic. Not sheer trigger twitch skills. I can't even be sure that souped up teams had a better winning percentage.

Sports history is filled with examples of star studded lineups that failed. Any team manager knows that it takes a bit of everything to make a great team. All that was accomplished was ruining chances that some roles could have been filled in more teams to achieve mass success. So we lost.

[nehebkau]

DaFrog, on 07 December 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

DOUBLE FACEPALM.
You all win. I quit.

Which actually I did mid-event as I thought that leader showed what his true goal was: netting more cash for him and a few of his mates. We still loss the event regardless.

I led on the last day, a good dozen fights. Didn't have what some might consider comp players, but we won 8-9 of them by using tactic. Not sheer trigger twitch skills. I can't even be sure that souped up teams had a better winning percentage.

Sports history is filled with examples of star studded lineups that failed. Any team manager knows that it takes a bit of everything to make a great team. All that was accomplished was ruining chances that some roles could have been filled in more teams to achieve mass success. So we lost.

Stop talking logic. Many very "Competitive" MWO players live in their own world where they think stompy-stompy robot skill makes them better humans. All you can do is <facepalm> when they open up their egos on the forums.

[Ulfgar Snorrison]

Hmmm. I am a simple man (some would say simpleminded) and have read some good thoughts here on this matter. Since my opinion would add little or nothing to the discussion I just say this. We stood together on Tukayyid, DaFrog, and for what little its worth I will stand with you now. If you don't like it: then I don't like it! I've got your six, shieldbrother. Now let us praise the gods and pass the lutefisk.

[Sjorpha]

DaFrog, on 07 December 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

Sports history is filled with examples of star studded lineups that failed. Any team manager knows that it takes a bit of everything to make a great team. All that was accomplished was ruining chances that some roles could have been filled in more teams to achieve mass success. So we lost.

Name a top tier sports team, in any sport, with a single bad player in it.

You need a bit of everything in the sense of different skill sets in a strong team, yes, but all those different skillsets still need to be top notch in a comp team. "A bit of everything" in that sense never ever means including a player that isn't actually comp level, it just means to find a top notch defender, a top notch attacker and so on for all the roles you need.

Look, what you're seeing here that you don't like is the basic mindset of competitive gamers. The problem with raging about that mindset is that it is what drives many good players to get good in the first place. You can go out of your way to avoid playing with people who think like us, but I can almost guarantee you that you will then be stuck with generally weaker teammates.

Classic cake and eat it, you want the good players to be in your group to carry you but you don't want them to act and think the way they need to stay good/get better.

But regardless of what we might disagree on, your ragequit drama fit is completely uncalled for. The FRR hub during this event was constantly FULL of mixed groups for you to join. There was 10+ 12mans going most of the time and I saw good players scattered all over the place, you had no shortage of groups to play with mixed skill levels if that was what you wanted.

If you don't like how your unit is run then why not simply switch units to one you like better or hang on the hub solo for a while? You had every opportunity to sort out your playing preferences without the hissy.

Edited by Sjorpha, 10 December 2015 - 05:58 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Da Frog
Depending on the way things are going for your faction unit I can see it going either way;
If you have 2 12 mans winning 60-80% of the time then don't poach. However, if neither of then are breaking 50%, for example. Then I can see merging the cream to ensure you're getting points at all...