43 replies to this topic

[Biclor Moban]

Okay,

Over the last few months (I have been playing sincee 2013) I have had occasion to question wether hit reg works.

I will give 2 examples of reg issues or some messed up thing.

1.
August.
I am at the Bog a disconnected Firestarter comes into view I am at a range of 500-600m. I am running ERPPCs on a Griffin. I fire both his left arm comes off. I adjust my aim and fire again CT lights up.
I fire 2 more simultanious shots. I am over heatin so I wait. I them begin to fire one right after the other 4 more shots I am to hot so I wait and on the 1st shot of that volley the Firestarter goes down. The second shot of that volley does nothing.
Lets count
2 shots to the left arm.
11 shots to the CT.
Then it went down.
I was so confused. I left and went to the training grounds. Shot every Mech there from that same range and angle. I killed a Jenner with 2 shots and an Atlas with 11. How is it that a Firestarter could take 11 shots to the CT.

2.
Tonight.
I am running a 4 ERLL Hunch 4P paired so they fire 2 then 2 with chain fire. I am at River City. I spot a Blackjack in the water near the Citadel he's firing at one of my guys. He remains between 480 and 550 meters range away. I have pressed R ad he is targeted. I use my advaced zoom and squeeze the trigger on my 4 ERLL. He takes all 4 to the CT it flashes. He doesn't move at all. I fire again 4 ERLL hit his center torso it flashes. He decides then to move about 100 meters to the left I reposition as well. He starts to fire upon My teammate again (also in the water). I fire all 4 ERLL again hitting the CT. then he takes aim at me what follows is 2 more clean shotsto his CT and some very random hits to the rest of him. He then retreats with a yellow CT seriously just yellow. He runs out on the pier by the fuel tanks and eventually he's at the end of the pier facing away from me. I get a lock on him for 1 4 shot volley to his back. He moves forward behind a rock for a moment. I think he is going to take off. I wait for him to come out the other side. He doesn't, he reappears now facing me. I don't have him targeted at first but let another 4 ERLL fly while I wait we are at about 600 range now. The shot was a bit sloppy but his it looks to drag from his CT to his LT to his LA. My target recticule comes up (one of my spiders is in sensor range) and I fire all 4 again and as I am doing that a Mad Cat backs from the base of the wall and kills me.cutting my volley about 1/2 way throught the second 2 firing.

How I count it thats 16 cleans shots to the CT and probably 6 in upper body area and he didn't go down. I made maybe 10 other shots but couldn't verify they hit or not so we aren't counting them.

I generally average about 450 Pts damage a game in this mech and it's not unheard of for me to do over 800 dmg.

How could a Blackjack survive that?
This does seem to be a reoccurant thing with Blackjacks.

3 times today I have gone Mono y mono with a Stormcrow or a Madcat at these ranges and cored them both......
Is it generally accepted that a SCR or TB is easier to core than a Blackjack?

Opinions or rational explanations encouraged.

If you exploit this issue let us all know. So we can know at least a part of your skill in MWO is exploiting bugs.

Edited by Biclor Moban, 07 February 2016 - 10:02 AM.

[Vickinator]

Video evidence?

[Sarlic]

I have the same.

I have accepted a bit lately. Even with lowish ping (around 30) i still suffer hitreg problems.

Might inspect your packetloss and as far i can recall its the terrible servers from PGI. It's the only game where about i suffer with hitreg.

Somebody made a nice little explaination on how the servers are being run.

Just to let you know you are not the only one. There are many others in the same boat.

Vickinator, on 07 December 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

Video evidence?

Doesnt need it. Everybody knows it that hitreg can be really wonky at times.

Edited by Sarlic, 07 December 2015 - 01:26 AM.

[Vickinator]

Sarlic, on 07 December 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

I have the same.

I have accepted a bit lately. Even with lowish ping (around 30) i still suffer hitreg problems.

Might inspect your packetloss and as far i can recall its the terrible servers from PGI. It's the only game where about i suffer with hitreg.

Somebody made a nice little explaination on how the servers are being run.

Just to let you know you are not the only one. There are many others in the same boat.


Doesnt need it. Everybody knows it that hitreg can be really wonky at times.

I will concede that the hit reg is wonky sometimes but hes using laser not SRMs which are usually the buggy weapons

[Sarlic]

Vickinator, on 07 December 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

I will concede that the hit reg is wonky sometimes but hes using laser not SRMs which are usually the buggy weapons

In this case a packet inspection could perhaps clear some things up.

[Jalen]

Without actually seeing video of it, it's really hard to tell, but I'll throw in a couple points:

1. I won't use any form of PPCs at all because of hit registration issues. I can't count how many times I've hit a target dead on with a PPC (or even a pair of PPCs), saw the hit splash against the mech and did not see the damage register on the paper doll icon. I'm well aware of the fact that regular PPCs have a damage dropoff at less than 90m, and generally chose ERPPCs because of that reason, and my ping is usually around 40-50ms with no packet loss. I've had this sort of thing happen to me way too many times, and I've seen it happen to other people as well. I've even been hit by PPCs in a game and saw them do no damage to me. Any weapon that only works occasionally, when it feels like working, is a weapon I don't need to be using. So, while this may not be the case for your first example, and you might not have ever had this sort of thing happen to you, I'm just relating my experience to you that they are incredibly unreliable for me and this could be part of the problem here.

2. Your second example is even tougher to diagnose without video, because we can only take your descriptions for how accurate your shots were, how long the laser burn was, whether or not they went into the water to hit the BJ, whether he was torso twisting. Although you gave a very accurate description of the event, you can only give your own point of view of how it went down.

So, I'm not disputing what you're saying, but there's really not much that can really be diagnosed from all of that. I would definitely suggest recording some games and try to capture video of similar situations.

[adamts01]

^^^ PPCs do some funny stuff.

Don't shoot firestarters CT. Just don't do it. They've had problems like this since day 1. Legs only on that mech.

As for the laser issue, I don't know. That's normally a very reliable weapon.

[Kjudoon]

I've seen hit reg work for one team, and not the other. Engage roflstomp mode.

PGI either can't fix it, hasn't found the cause yet or it's so low on the list they haven't gotten around to it... like a lot of things.

[El Bandito]

Biclor Moban, on 07 December 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

How I count it thats 16 cleans shots to the CT and probably 6 in upper body area and he didn't go down. I made maybe 10 other shots but couldn't verify they hit or not so we aren't counting them.

I generally average about 450 Pts damage a game in this mech and it's not unheard of for me to do over 800 dmg.

How could a Blackjack survive that?
This does seem to be a reoccurant thing with Blackjacks.

Assuming the Blackjack had frontloaded all the CT armor, that's 112 effective hitpoints with quirks. You will need four 28 damage alphas to core through that. Considering the hitreg issues, BJ's CT hitbox, and the fact ERLL's have long burn time, it is very possible the BJ survives the attack afterwards.

Edited by El Bandito, 07 December 2015 - 03:19 AM.

[Setun]

Aside from SRMs not registering a fraction of their damage (haven't tried them since the patch on Tuesday), I've had PPCs literally clip through enemies before. Although I will admit it's hilarious when a PPC clips through an enemy and then it hits someone else behind my intended target.

[Biclor Moban]

Sarlic, on 07 December 2015 - 01:26 AM, said:

I have the same.

I have accepted a bit lately. Even with lowish ping (around 30) i still suffer hitreg problems.

Might inspect your packetloss and as far i can recall its the terrible servers from PGI. It's the only game where about i suffer with hitreg.

Somebody made a nice little explaination on how the servers are being run.

Just to let you know you are not the only one. There are many others in the same boat.


Doesnt need it. Everybody knows it that hitreg can be really wonky at times.

The Firestarter incident did happen when I was on a copper DSL connection with sporatic packet loss issues. The Blackjack incident happened with my newly installed fibre.. so there's a thing..

[wanderer]

The PPC "projectile" has some wonky behavior, absolutely. Part of it seems to be the size/shape of the projectile, where it'll occasionally end up hitting terrain you'd have no idea was even close, or apparently hitting a target for absolutely no effect whatsoever (and outside of 90m).

[The Mecha Streisand]

I see PPCs hitting in rapid succesion, sometimes not registering the second or subsequent hits. Seems if the paper doll is flashing already when one (anything; doesn't have the be a PPC first, but usually is) hit registers, and the PPC hits WHILE it's still flashing, the PPC doesn't register.

Would be nice if I video'd every single match, so that the several (out of over 1,000 since last stat wipe) times I've seen it would be recorded. Suffice it to say that some mechs just don't have that much structure, that a red CT can take TWO PPCs within optimal range, and still be RED.

[Biclor Moban]

Jalen, on 07 December 2015 - 02:17 AM, said:

Without actually seeing video of it, it's really hard to tell, but I'll throw in a couple points:

1. I won't use any form of PPCs at all because of hit registration issues. I can't count how many times I've hit a target dead on with a PPC (or even a pair of PPCs), saw the hit splash against the mech and did not see the damage register on the paper doll icon. I'm well aware of the fact that regular PPCs have a damage dropoff at less than 90m, and generally chose ERPPCs because of that reason, and my ping is usually around 40-50ms with no packet loss. I've had this sort of thing happen to me way too many times, and I've seen it happen to other people as well. I've even been hit by PPCs in a game and saw them do no damage to me. Any weapon that only works occasionally, when it feels like working, is a weapon I don't need to be using. So, while this may not be the case for your first example, and you might not have ever had this sort of thing happen to you, I'm just relating my experience to you that they are incredibly unreliable for me and this could be part of the problem here.

2. Your second example is even tougher to diagnose without video, because we can only take your descriptions for how accurate your shots were, how long the laser burn was, whether or not they went into the water to hit the BJ, whether he was torso twisting. Although you gave a very accurate description of the event, you can only give your own point of view of how it went down.

So, I'm not disputing what you're saying, but there's really not much that can really be diagnosed from all of that. I would definitely suggest recording some games and try to capture video of similar situations.

Your reasoning seems rational and it didn't sound like you were disputing anything. What I heard was logic talking.

I took my Black Widow out for the first time and hit mechs 11-15 times (little target turned red) then got killed. At the end of the game had done 2 damage with those ERPPC's, disappointing.. Yeah not a fan of PPCs from that standpoint. what to do what to do.
Thanks.

[MrMadguy]

1) Firestarter is known for having broken hit boxes and swallowing damage. PPC is known for having hitreg issues. Looks like they never will be fixed.
2) Blackjack is OP - it has overbuffed doubled internals. It's going to be nerfed soon.

[Yosharian]

MrMadguy, on 06 February 2016 - 11:06 PM, said:

1) Firestarter is known for having broken hit boxes and swallowing damage. PPC is known for having hitreg issues. Looks like they never will be fixed.
2) Blackjack is OP - it has overbuffed doubled internals. It's going to be nerfed soon.

Soon ^TM

Edited by Yosharian, 07 February 2016 - 02:40 AM.

[The Basilisk]

Vickinator, on 07 December 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

I will concede that the hit reg is wonky sometimes but hes using laser not SRMs which are usually the buggy weapons

Setun, on 07 December 2015 - 03:25 AM, said:

Aside from SRMs not registering a fraction of their damage (haven't tried them since the patch on Tuesday), I've had PPCs literally clip through enemies before. Although I will admit it's hilarious when a PPC clips through an enemy and then it hits someone else behind my intended target.

Yea got the same thing with CERPPCs on a heat shut down Atlas.
His CT was rubby red and I was standing rock still.
PPCs clipped right through and ..... killed the friendly raven behind it?

The poor thought of Mr B. talking about 4 vs 4 and leaderboard matches makes me wonder.....

[adamts01]

Vickinator, on 07 December 2015 - 01:25 AM, said:

Video evidence?

This honestly doesn't happen to you once and a while? Pics or it didn't happen? You've played enough matches to be Tier 1, I'm sure you've had dead center hits not register on occasion. I absolutely have, even with lasers. Not often, but it does happen.

[Davegt27]

Biclor Moban, on 07 December 2015 - 01:20 AM, said:

Okay,

Over the last few months (I have been playing sincee 2013) I have had occasion to question wether hit reg works.

I will give 2 examples of reg issues or some messed up thing.

1.
August.
I am at the Bog a disconnected Firestarter comes into view I am at a range of 500-600m. I am running ERPPCs on a Griffin. I fire both his left arm comes off. I adjust my aim and fire again CT lights up.
I fire 2 more simultanious shots. I am over heatin so I wait. I them begin to fire one right after the other 4 more shots I am to hot so I wait and on the 1st shot of that volley the Firestarter goes down. The second shot of that volley does nothing.
Lets count
2 shots to the left arm.
11 shots to the CT.
Then it went down.
I was so confused. I left and went to the training grounds. Shot every Mech there from that same range and angle. I killed a Jenner with 2 shots and an Atlas with 11. How is it that a Firestarter could take 11 shots to the CT.

2.
Tonight.
I am running a 4 ERLL Hunch 4P paired so they fire 2 then 2 with chain fire. I am at River City. I spot a Blackjack in the water near the Citadel he's firing at one of my guys. He remains between 480 and 550 meters range away. I have pressed R ad he is targeted. I use my advaced zoom and squeeze the trigger on my 4 ERLL. He takes all 4 to the CT it flashes. He doesn't move at all. I fire again 4 ERLL hit his center torso it flashes. He decides then to move about 100 meters to the left I reposition as well. He starts to fire upon My teammate again (also in the water). I fire all 4 ERLL again hitting the CT. then he takes aim at me what follows is 2 more clean shotsto his CT and some very random hits to the rest of him. He then retreats with a yellow CT seriously just yellow. He runs out on the pier by the fuel tanks and eventually he's at the end of the pier facing away from me. I get a lock on him for 1 4 shot volley to his back. He moves forward behind a rock for a moment. I think he is going to take off. I wait for him to come out the other side. He doesn't, he reappears now facing me. I don't have him targeted at first but let another 4 ERLL fly while I wait we are at about 600 range now. The shot was a bit sloppy but his it looks to drag from his CT to his LT to his LA. My target recticule comes up (one of my spiders is in sensor range) and I fire all 4 again and as I am doing that a Mad Cat backs from the base of the wall and kills me.cutting my volley about 1/2 way throught the second 2 firing.

How I count it thats 16 cleans shots to the CT and probably 6 in upper body area and he didn't go down. I made maybe 10 other shots but couldn't verify they hit or not so we aren't counting them.

I generally average about 450 Pts damage a game in this mech and it's not unheard of for me to do over 800 dmg.

How could a Blackjack survive that?
This does seem to be a reoccurant thing with Blackjacks.

3 times today I have gone Mono y mono with a Stormcrow or a Madcat at these ranges and cored them both......
Is it generally accepted that a SCR or TB is easier to core than a Blackjack?

Please help.

No one will believe you without video evidence
Even though most of us know things are pretty screwy we just play along

That’s why I say you will see all kinds of crazy stuff in game if you play enough
(I was playing 65 hours a week)

[Ted Wayz]

It has been mentioned shutdown hitreg and moving hitreg are not the same.

Still was able to watch an evenly matched Cheetah and BJ go at it the other day. Give you one guess who won. Hint: It wasn't the one getting the nerfs soon.

Broken hitboxes>>>>>>armor and structure quirks.