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What The Hell


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#1 Pardo Kerensky

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 10:13 AM

So you nerf clan XL engines, nerf clan double heatsinks, give IS mechs more and more and more free structure and armor and mobility quirks and now like all that wasnt enough you increase the IS drop tonnage in CW to 265 tons?
REALLY?
Do you really want clan pilots to stop playing overall?
How many more buffs to IS and nerf to clans do you have to give them before they will be satisfied?

#2 Scout Derek

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 10:26 AM

Another person, not understanding why things happen.

Clan XLs were much > IS XLs, and...!

For steam release, because we needed a balance anyways

And really, the "omgplsbuffclanscuzISisOP" argument?

Do you realize how strong iic mechs were considered before the xl nerf? The highlander would've been able to mount the highest xl engine with NO, and I say again, NO penalties as opposed to the IS highlander with a XL.

Either this is a troll post, or just a angry rant that hasn't kept up with the crowd.

#3 adamts01

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 10:53 AM

I play mostly Clan, their motors needed this nerf. As to heat, the increased cooling made up for it.

You're right about CW though. If PGI wants to try to make Clan and IS equal, giving IS more tonnage is just idiotic.

#4 BigBenn

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:06 AM

This thread proves that some people are very shallow and do not

A: read the change log or patch notes thoroughly
B: contemplate the changes made
C: are not able to think beyond a set of numbers

To the author of this thread: Relax and enjoy the game. PGI isnt going to let an imbalance in the Force to ruin MWO. ;)

#5 Bulletsponge0

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:08 AM

I have no problem with the heat nerf to clans, nor the penalty for losing a ST...

but PGI took the structure quirks too far on many of the IS mechs...

#6 Monkey Lover

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:13 AM

Clans got 10 tons too. I don't think it matters to much. Just give us more options .

#7 Spheroid

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:23 AM

I see no problem. Your faction is gaining territory is it not?

Posted Image

#8 Merky Merc

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:23 AM

View PostBulletsponge0, on 20 December 2015 - 11:08 AM, said:

but PGI took the structure quirks too far on many of the IS mechs...


Nah yo, BJs needing tactical nukes to destroy a 45 ton med is legit.

#9 Mcgral18

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:31 AM

View PostMerky Merc, on 20 December 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:


Nah yo, BJs needing tactical nukes to destroy a 45 ton med is legit.


I enjoy the fact a 45 tonner isn't complete rubbish.

See Vindicator, SadCat, Ice Fridge. I'd prefer to see more of them reach the BJ's effectiveness, rather than nerf the only good 45 tonner.

#10 Summon3r

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:44 AM

the clan XL eng nerf is hardly noticeable imho apart from the loss of cooling you get...... needless to say the continual effort to balance on a 1 to 1 or mech to mech basis is flawed far as im concerned. really wish PGI would have attempted a balance path with #'s

#11 Monkey Lover

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:49 AM

View PostMerky Merc, on 20 December 2015 - 11:23 AM, said:


Nah yo, BJs needing tactical nukes to destroy a 45 ton med is legit.


Lol when did 4 med lasers worth of structure buffs make a mech into a god?

Edited by Monkey Lover, 20 December 2015 - 11:51 AM.


#12 Pardo Kerensky

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:06 PM

Wait I forgot..

Why the hell even after the timberwolf and stormcrow energy nerfs and clan heatsinks nerfs there STILL is ghost heat on firing 3 clan ER LL/ clan LPL at the same time while IS can fire 3 LPL/ERLL/LL at the same time with no penalty whatsoever?
IS mechs can just core you out in 2 shots with their completely balanced and quirked to hell 3 LPL cancerbolt 9SE and now that the 4N has been rightfully nerfed behold the new IS flavor of the month: the ERLL/LL vomit cancermaster, now with insane free structure and armor quirks and on top of that stupid energy quirks can just vomit non stop large laser suppress fire from 1500 meters away.

Tell me how this garbage game is supposed to be balanced because as hard as I look I see no balance.

#13 Mcgral18

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:08 PM

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Wait I forgot..

Why the hell even after the timberwolf and stormcrow energy nerfs and clan heatsinks nerfs there STILL is ghost heat on firing 3 clan ER LL/ clan LPL at the same time while IS can fire 3 LPL/ERLL/LL at the same time with no penalty whatsoever?
IS mechs can just core you out in 2 shots with their completely balanced and quirked to hell 3 LPL cancerbolt 9SE and now that the 4N has been rightfully nerfed behold the new IS flavor of the month: the ERLL/LL vomit cancermaster, now with insane free structure and armor quirks and on top of that stupid energy quirks can just vomit non stop large laser suppress fire from 1500 meters away.

Tell me how this garbage game is supposed to be balanced because as hard as I look I see no balance.


Now look at the RANGE of the Clam LPL
The range of the isLPL

The damage of the cLPL, to the isLPL


It gets less range and damage for shorter durations.

Funny you say that, because the LPLs are among the only weapons actually balanced semi asymmetrically. They are both good weapons.

#14 Novakaine

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:08 PM

And here we go again.......
Posted Image

#15 Monkey Lover

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:20 PM

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Wait I forgot..

Why the hell even after the timberwolf and stormcrow energy nerfs and clan heatsinks nerfs there STILL is ghost heat on firing 3 clan ER LL/ clan LPL at the same time while IS can fire 3 LPL/ERLL/LL at the same time with no penalty whatsoever?
IS mechs can just core you out in 2 shots with their completely balanced and quirked to hell 3 LPL cancerbolt 9SE and now that the 4N has been rightfully nerfed behold the new IS flavor of the month: the ERLL/LL vomit cancermaster, now with insane free structure and armor quirks and on top of that stupid energy quirks can just vomit non stop large laser suppress fire from 1500 meters away.

Tell me how this garbage game is supposed to be balanced because as hard as I look I see no balance.

I say keep nerfing the top clan mechs until you see 50-50 ratio of IS/clan mechs in the public Q. I'm still running my ebon crow and my cheater when we need the best mechs.

#16 dario03

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:28 PM

Personally I think the cXL should have been how it is now since the beginning. However that with all the other nerfs and all the buffs to IS mechs seems like to much. And if we are talking CW then since the rebalance in CW I think I have seen clans win twice when the teams were all pug or groups of ~equal size and pugs. If the clans don't have a decently bigger group then they lose and its usually not even close.
Not that I would use random CW games as the end all be all of balance but that and comparing the mechs.

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Wait I forgot..

Why the hell even after the timberwolf and stormcrow energy nerfs and clan heatsinks nerfs there STILL is ghost heat on firing 3 clan ER LL/ clan LPL at the same time while IS can fire 3 LPL/ERLL/LL at the same time with no penalty whatsoever?
IS mechs can just core you out in 2 shots with their completely balanced and quirked to hell 3 LPL cancerbolt 9SE and now that the 4N has been rightfully nerfed behold the new IS flavor of the month: the ERLL/LL vomit cancermaster, now with insane free structure and armor quirks and on top of that stupid energy quirks can just vomit non stop large laser suppress fire from 1500 meters away.

Tell me how this garbage game is supposed to be balanced because as hard as I look I see no balance.


The cLPL is a very good weapon. Though with quirks it seems hard to justify having ghost heat be different for Clan and IS (ER)LL. Plenty of IS mechs have ERLL that shoot further, faster, less duration, and less heat, it does take a extra ton, and crit for less damage but overall is a very favorable trade. I would say ERLL on some quirked mechs are flat out better than cERLL so ghost heat should be changed for them.

Edited by dario03, 20 December 2015 - 12:41 PM.


#17 Smotty

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:29 PM

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 12:13 PM, said:


Hey look, a troll post without any arguments.
Go **** yourself imbecile.


Ahh, someone's feelings got hurt. How cute...

Balance isn't to shabby currently. I had no issues killing (and winning) IS in CW as clans, you just have to put out more damage now. (Great for cbill farming)

Also having no issues destroying clans as IS. Posted Image I also usually run under tonnage with both my IS and clan drop decks.

It's more about player skill and teamwork now and it's the way it should be.

#18 MauttyKoray

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:47 PM

View PostScout Derek, on 20 December 2015 - 10:26 AM, said:

Another person, not understanding why things happen.

Clan XLs were much > IS XLs, and...!

For steam release, because we needed a balance anyways

And really, the "omgplsbuffclanscuzISisOP" argument?

Do you realize how strong iic mechs were considered before the xl nerf? The highlander would've been able to mount the highest xl engine with NO, and I say again, NO penalties as opposed to the IS highlander with a XL.

Either this is a troll post, or just a angry rant that hasn't kept up with the crowd.

I agree the Clan XL balance was needed, and honestly I like it and think its both fair and feel it gives a great feel to the 'superior' clan tech and issues losing a side torso would cause. (Basically you just lost a bunch of shielding from the ST so it would make sense the reactor might need to reduce its power output to prevent causing a breach.)

However, the OP isn't entirely wrong. The addition to the durability quirks (while still having fairly strong weapon quirks on many chassis) are actually bring the IS out ahead of Clans in terms of power now. Russ tweeted something about how he thinks the more firepower for less durability was a good balance for the clans to sit at, but in reality its not. An IS make can take a brutal beating now for the most part (I play them too) and still dish out considerable firepower depending on the mech when built towards its quirks.

I agree the Clans, for the most part, don't really need many firepower buffs, if any. But mechs like the IICs shatter quite easily (I've popped so many Hunchies and Orion IICs its silly) compared to their IS counterparts. Much to the point that I've actually found it really disappointing to play any of the IIC mechs over their IS counterparts due to the increased durability quirks and the weapon quirks which don't leave that large of a gap in firepower. Yes the IIC can usually carry more weaponry but the IS version with less firepower have quirks to make up a portion of that gap as well as durability.

This isn't specifically about IICs though. Which, as 'inferior' Battlemechs (where as the Clans thought Omnis were basically the epitome of their 'mech technology) feel like they show it by not being as strong while still taking advantage of the Clan tech's reduced tonnage and space requirements. Although I will say that in single combat I have yet to lose against a IIC in its IS counterpart... (Hunchie comes the closest IMO, simply because of the dual hunch)

A lot of clan mechs are being practically left in the dirt along the side of the road that is MWO, accompanied by a few IS chassis that are practically never played and for good reason. Vindicator being my example as its one of my favorite mechs but is horrendously underpowered in anything besides a pure laser boat or dual PPC config, low tonnage, low hardpoints, and that Ballistic variant is a joke.

The problem we have is PGI is relying on Quirks as the main balance factor still. Instead of wiping the quirks clean and balancing the core systems, then using quirks to adjust the outlying mechs or create the flavor of 'mechs from the lore. (better PPC capabilities on an Awesome/Vindicator, etc)

Its been the issue since Quirks were introduced and amplified by the fact that PGI is never quick at changing obvious problems (3ERPPC thunderbolt anyone?) and then over reacting and causing a new issue with them. This is further amplified by the issue that a lot of strong unit players have been under the Clans for a while now (that's not to say IS doesn't have its share) so the power has been skewed as Clan tech being 'more powerful'.

If we ever hope for this game to be 'balanced' people need to stop their crappy IS vs Clans power struggle and look at actually balancing the game while keeping the IS and Clans unique enough from one another to prevent the game from practically only needing a single set of any equipment.

#19 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:50 PM

View Postadamts01, on 20 December 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I play mostly Clan, their motors needed this nerf. As to heat, the increased cooling made up for it.

You're right about CW though. If PGI wants to try to make Clan and IS equal, giving IS more tonnage is just idiotic.

TUK results say otherwise

#20 adamts01

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 12:57 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

TUK results say otherwise

What is TUK?





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