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#41 norus

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 03:52 PM

View PostLord Scarlett Johan, on 20 December 2015 - 03:49 PM, said:


BJ-1X CT hitpoints with 100% front load: 112, 56/56 split. Which means 56 of that is critable.
SCR-Prime CT hitpoints with 100% front load: 108, 72/36 split which means 36 of that is critable.

I feel like it's balanced. It just means it's no longer a no brainer to take the Scrow, but I have a valid IS alternative.

Except that they have to be balanced for CW/group queue weight limits, not just solo pubbing. The SCR at 10 tons higher SHOULD be stronger. Buff a 55 ton IS mech to SCR strength, don't buff a 45 ton.

#42 norus

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 03:56 PM

View PostLord Scarlett Johan, on 20 December 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:


False: 4SP would have a word with you.

Hunchback 4sp structure buffs, 160 combined. BJ 1x, 164.

I'll call your false with a double false.

#43 Saint Scarlett Johan

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 05:24 PM

View Postnorus, on 20 December 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

Hunchback 4sp structure buffs, 160 combined. BJ 1x, 164.

I'll call your false with a double false.


You were talking about total overall.

I assumed you were talking about the doubling of the torsos.

#44 jaxjace

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 10:41 PM

I gotta believe this is PGI just nerfing the clans based on the fact so many comp teams joined clan for at least a month

#45 El Bandito

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:09 PM

Clans are still going strong in CW. If they were nerfed that bad, we should see them driven back to their homeworlds by now.

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

So you nerf clan XL engines, nerf clan double heatsinks, give IS mechs more and more and more free structure and armor and mobility quirks and now like all that wasnt enough you increase the IS drop tonnage in CW to 265 tons?
REALLY?
Do you really want clan pilots to stop playing overall?
How many more buffs to IS and nerf to clans do you have to give them before they will be satisfied?


The fact PGI is increasing IS tonnage even more means the Clans are still not balanced enough in their eyes.

View Postadamts01, on 20 December 2015 - 10:53 AM, said:

I play mostly Clan, their motors needed this nerf. As to heat, the increased cooling made up for it.

You're right about CW though. If PGI wants to try to make Clan and IS equal, giving IS more tonnage is just idiotic.


You are right. PGI should buff the IS even more so we can finally do 250 tons vs. 250 tons, in a fair fight.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 December 2015 - 11:12 PM.


#46 adamts01

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:24 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 20 December 2015 - 11:09 PM, said:


The fact PGI is increasing IS tonnage even more means the Clans are still not balanced enough in their eyes.



You are right. PGI should buff the IS even more so we can finally do 250 tons vs. 250 tons, in a fair fight.

I don't care about the IS vs Clan debate. There are two directions to go, make Clans more powerful and give IS numbers or tonnage, or make the two sides balanced. Right now PGI is going in both directions at once. That's all I'm pointing out. This tonnage thing is a joke, it's pretty much them admitting they suck at their job and can't make them equal but different.

#47 KuroNyra

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:42 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Tukayyid..that big CW event the clans won twice now. Despite higher tonnage on the IS side.

You DO take in account the fact that Clans had more big groups of Mercs and not "unskilled" one right?
That sur make a big help with the clans.

Not sur the result would have been the same if it was just pugs and little groups. Beside, even with the currents groups. The battle was hard fought and it was merely because of the time the event finished.

You can't use TUK in order to say Clans are OP. I fought for Liao side and heck we stomped on other group. CWI and 228 included. (Of course, they stomped us back in another game. Fairtrade. :P )

#48 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:45 PM

View PostKuroNyra, on 20 December 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

You DO take in account the fact that Clans had more big groups of Mercs and not "unskilled" one right?
That sur make a big help with the clans.

Not sur the result would have been the same if it was just pugs and little groups. Beside, even with the currents groups. The battle was hard fought and it was merely because of the time the event finished.

You can't use TUK in order to say Clans are OP. I fought for Liao side and heck we stomped on other group. CWI and 228 included. (Of course, they stomped us back in another game. Fairtrade. Posted Image )

Yes...because of course, Comp Units are FAMOUS for flocking to the weaker tech base..... Posted Image

#49 norus

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:51 PM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

Yes...because of course, Comp Units are FAMOUS for flocking to the weaker tech base..... Posted Image

Considering that even with several hundred merc unit players moving to clan for the event IS still outnumbered clan by nearly 1300, I have a feeling a lot of units preemptively moved just to avoid queues. Hell it's the sole reason I went clan for tukk. I survived tukk 1 as IS with horrible queue times, was not interested in doing that again.

#50 Bishop Steiner

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Posted 20 December 2015 - 11:54 PM

View Postnorus, on 20 December 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

Considering that even with several hundred merc unit players moving to clan for the event IS still outnumbered clan by nearly 1300, I have a feeling a lot of units preemptively moved just to avoid queues. Hell it's the sole reason I went clan for tukk. I survived tukk 1 as IS with horrible queue times, was not interested in doing that again.

Then you don't know TRVEKOMP mentality..... which is always use the absolute best toys no matter what...because the other guys will if you don't. Comps don't handicap themselves.

#51 MauttyKoray

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 12:03 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 11:54 PM, said:

Then you don't know TRVEKOMP mentality..... which is always use the absolute best toys no matter what...because the other guys will if you don't. Comps don't handicap themselves.

Most were Comps. A lot of the non-comp skilled units moved to Clans for the shorter wait time. There are far more non-comp units than comp, and against uncoordinated pug groups the non-comps still have a high chance of winning. Which meant you more often had the skilled teams on clans going up against pugs or groups of the IS, while the IS groups were waiting longer and encountered fewer pug groups on the Clan side.

#52 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 01:00 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

Yes...because of course, Comp Units are FAMOUS for flocking to the weaker tech base..... Posted Image


Come on now. At least for BMMU our decision to go Clan for TUK was in absolutely no way based on the tech line or mechs. Quite simply it makes no difference, we knew we would win the vast majority of games as either side, and went Clan for queue times, no other reason. The majority of us would choose IS mechs if queue times were equal.

I can't speak for other units decision making, but i would be surprised if they chose Clan for a different reason.

Imo its fairly well balanced right now, with the edge going to IS if they are using the good well quirked mechs. Trouble is there are a lot of IS mechs and a lot of people with poor mech choosing and building skills.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 21 December 2015 - 01:05 AM.


#53 Wolfways

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 03:00 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 01:00 PM, said:

Tukayyid..that big CW event the clans won twice now. Despite higher tonnage on the IS side.

Clan Mechwarriors are better than IS Mechwarriors. The only lore pgi are sticking to Posted Image

On topic, i played CW for about 10 hours last night/this morning. Pugs only.
I ran into IS premades of 8+ players about 2 or 3 times. Complete stomp and win for IS.
I was on teams with Clan premades of maybe 3 or 4 players twice. Can't remember the results. Think we won 1 but not sure.
Most games were pug v. pug. IS nearly always won.

Clan wins? 3...in 10+ hours.

A problem that nobody seems to mention is that the maps are either chokepoints, city, or some kind of built up area where IS obviously holds the advantage as the "brawler faction" now. Maps are too small for clan to make use of range and speed. Other than Alpine and to some degree Tourmaline all maps are brawler maps.

Edited by Wolfways, 21 December 2015 - 03:35 AM.


#54 KuroNyra

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 03:40 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 11:45 PM, said:

Yes...because of course, Comp Units are FAMOUS for flocking to the weaker tech base..... Posted Image

You would be surprised.

Even with your argument. You seem to completly forget the fact that the battle was hard fought and the tide was going from a side to another during the whole event.

The IS even dominated for a month at 70% of defense win. 30% for the Clan.

So even with that: the Clans still had troubles getting the advantage. And let's just "forget" the timezone problem. I couldn't play because the event stopped in the middle of the night for me. Same for a large portion of the EU playerbase.
If that wouldn't happened. I'm not sur the Clanners would have won.

It is know that people in the US tend to favors Clanners, compared to EU who favor IS. (Something I've saw spoken about countless times. )

#55 Templar Dane

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 03:58 AM

View PostBishop Steiner, on 20 December 2015 - 12:50 PM, said:

TUK results say otherwise


The big name competitive teams joined the clanners, and the results were extremely close.

#56 Love in an Annihilator

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 04:37 AM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 21 December 2015 - 01:00 AM, said:


Come on now. At least for BMMU our decision to go Clan for TUK was in absolutely no way based on the tech line or mechs. Quite simply it makes no difference, we knew we would win the vast majority of games as either side, and went Clan for queue times, no other reason. The majority of us would choose IS mechs if queue times were equal.

I can't speak for other units decision making, but i would be surprised if they chose Clan for a different reason.

Imo its fairly well balanced right now, with the edge going to IS if they are using the good well quirked mechs. Trouble is there are a lot of IS mechs and a lot of people with poor mech choosing and building skills.



And that's the problem right there: the game gets 'balanced' for newbs an noobs.

In the land of facetanking and hillcamping it doesn't matter if you can cook an egg while firing your lasers or your acs fire in streams, because nobody moves.

The 'BIG REQUIRKENING' has been rubbish because it left as many mechs dead in the water as before while simultaneosly nerfing the effect of pilot skill.

#57 DivineEvil

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 05:40 AM

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 12:06 PM, said:

Wait I forgot..

Why the hell even after the timberwolf and stormcrow energy nerfs and clan heatsinks nerfs there STILL is ghost heat on firing 3 clan ER LL/ clan LPL at the same time while IS can fire 3 LPL/ERLL/LL at the same time with no penalty whatsoever?
IS mechs can just core you out in 2 shots with their completely balanced and quirked to hell 3 LPL cancerbolt 9SE and now that the 4N has been rightfully nerfed behold the new IS flavor of the month: the ERLL/LL vomit cancermaster, now with insane free structure and armor quirks and on top of that stupid energy quirks can just vomit non stop large laser suppress fire from 1500 meters away.

Tell me how this garbage game is supposed to be balanced because as hard as I look I see no balance.
Because all Clan Pulse lasers are essentially their analogue to IS standard lasers and still has higher DPS. In this particular instance, clan LPLs has higher range that either IS-LPLs or IS-LLs, double the DPS of standard IS-LL for a ton more, and 50% higher DPS than of IS-LPL one for one ton less. Clan ERLs has higher range than IS-ERLs and provide 70% higher DPS while 1 ton lighter for a mere price of .25 seconds of additional burn time. Overall, Clan heavier lasers are ~50% deadlier than their IS counterparts, thus their PPFLD damage is limited more strictly with Ghost Heat.

Even the BLR-1D, that has 15% energy range quirk, can only obtain optimal range of 776.25 meters on ERLLs, which is only ~30 meters over the ERLLs base range, that any Clan mech can sport on demand. At 1500 meters, these ERLLs will produce 0.16 DPS each. It can be enough to induce panic in a genetically failed clan maggots, who are afraid of any miniscule damage directed at them, but it is certainly not something that any substantially experienced clan warrior will consider as an unbreakable advantage on IS side. In intended effective ranges of ~900 meters Clan ERLLs are still more powerful, while lighter and smaller, than IS-ERLLs.

Edited by DivineEvil, 21 December 2015 - 06:06 AM.


#58 Almond Brown

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 06:21 AM

View PostKuroNyra, on 20 December 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

You DO take in account the fact that Clans had more big groups of Mercs and not "unskilled" one right?
That sur make a big help with the clans.

Not sur the result would have been the same if it was just pugs and little groups. Beside, even with the currents groups. The battle was hard fought and it was merely because of the time the event finished.

You can't use TUK in order to say Clans are OP. I fought for Liao side and heck we stomped on other group. CWI and 228 included. (Of course, they stomped us back in another game. Fairtrade. Posted Image )


So stomps both ways? Lots of hard fought battles? The I.S. had more tonnage per drop? Sounds rather "balanced" when you put it like that. What was the OP issue again? LOL ;)

#59 Almond Brown

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 06:24 AM

View PostMauttyKoray, on 21 December 2015 - 12:03 AM, said:

Most were Comps. A lot of the non-comp skilled units moved to Clans for the shorter wait time. There are far more non-comp units than comp, and against uncoordinated pug groups the non-comps still have a high chance of winning. Which meant you more often had the skilled teams on clans going up against pugs or groups of the IS, while the IS groups were waiting longer and encountered fewer pug groups on the Clan side.


So it would appear, yet again, just like in Public Queue that . Team work is OP and should be abolished once and for all for the sake of the game.

Who would have thought that right?... ;)

#60 maniacos

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Posted 21 December 2015 - 06:26 AM

View PostPardomaru, on 20 December 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

So you nerf clan XL engines, nerf clan double heatsinks, give IS mechs more and more and more free structure and armor and mobility quirks and now like all that wasnt enough you increase the IS drop tonnage in CW to 265 tons?
REALLY?
Do you really want clan pilots to stop playing overall?
How many more buffs to IS and nerf to clans do you have to give them before they will be satisfied?


Clan mechs are OP in all battletech versions. That's why you had 12 vs 10 matches usually. But this game doesn't allow this, so we need a different way of balance, which is done here by quirks. Clan still have much wider range. Your mlas have the range of IS las. You need to use your clan advantages correctly to match up with the quirks.





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