26 replies to this topic

[CJ Daxion]

I've been checking them out.. and one thing stuck me as very odd.. the Nova at 50 tons and, is the slowest one of them all.. I would of thought it at least would hit 90-95KPH, but it doesn't..

The ice ferret, seams like it is sorta the cicada of the clan world.. a bit of energy, with some SRM builds maybe? I dunno, with out torso hard points, it seams like you could just break off its arms and leave it? (yes i saw the one torso missile launcher) But still.. yikes!

the shadow cat i am not sure, it is fast, But load outs look slim, is it more of a high damage weapon alpha mech? It is 45 tons, so it can't hold a lot, But has a ton of ballistic Hard points, but that stuff is heavy.. So i am really baffled by the whole thing. Is it just a gauss machine? it seems like that is what i see most using it for. Only 2 energy had points, would you use ERLL's? maybe a fat adder with ERPPC's? I am confused. this one is very different than the old shadow cat i am used too. Maybe because there are already enough energy boats clan side?

Stormcrow.. Ok.. this really has me puzzled, and i guess the reason why everyone uses it.. Load outs, you can boat just about anything in it.. and the thing is fast as a shadow cat, and even thought it is 5 tons heavier, it is loads faster than the nova .. which runs at the same speed as a timber? I am at the point that after getting the meta timber, do i really want a meta storm crow too? Be one of those dirty clanners i have hated for the last 2+ years???


So back to the nova.. what is up with this mech, It's kinda slow for a medium.. though i guess average for an IS medium.. I do wonder about the hight it can jump, seems like as high as most IS lights outside of spiders. Most timber builds i have been using have only had 3, and i dunno how high that is, as smurfy doesn't list um but does it jump lots higher than the timber? I am really curious about how it gets around. It also looks like it has insane alpha's but run really hot, Or run a bit cooler, and have mega DPS.

I really was leaning towards this,, But the speed of a timber, i dunno, i was kinda wanting a faster medium, but i do want JJ's.. So really what i am getting at.. can i get a little low down on the clan mediums.. and can anyone sell me on why i should get the nova over the Meta-Crow?

[Wintersdark]

The sadcat is just pretty bad. It's 45t, but because of locked JJ and MASC, cannot effectively mount heavy weapons. You can't adequately cool heavy energy, and lack tonnage for ballistic ammo. And it lacks hardpoints to mount light weapons. It's just bad (yeah, some "do fine in it", but some do fine in Vindicators.). The sadcat is a bad robot, but a fun one to pilot.

The Nova is mediocre at best. It has terrible hitboxes, poor upgrade selection, and is slow. It's forced to invest a lot of very valuable tonnage (see: bad upgrades) into locked JJ's that aren't very helpful.

Quirks help it not be god-awful, but it isn't good either.

There are a couple decent ice fridge builds, but its definitely not a very good Clan Mech either. Has its role in specialist CW tactics though, given speed+JJ's.

The Stormcrow is excellent, of course, the only really good option.

The HBK-IIC is made of glass. Fun, decent mech, but way too fragile and poorly hitboxed to be a solid contender. Better than the other non-SCR options at least.


The sadcat is the most depressing though, IMHO. With +1-2E, it would be a great machine. Or removable MASC. Or removable JJ.

It's so very close to being a great mech, but instead is terrible.

[Wintersdark]

I definitely can't sell you on Nova > Stormcrow. Stormcrow does lack JJs, but is better at everything else by such a large margin. The Nova is arguably flat out bad, the Stormcrow is one of the best mechs in the game.

Even if you don't want to go meta, the Stormcrow can do pretty much anything, and well. Ballistics? Missiles? Lasers? Few, heavy energy for ranged play? Many SPL/srm for brawling? The Stormcrow does it all, with excellent hitboxed to boot.

There's really no comparison.

The Nova, on the other hand...well, it can be an acceptable poptart. Better than the SCR at least, as the SCR simply can't.

[Leone]

I love me my Blackhawks, and I don't really poptart. As requested, here is a Run of four Novas in CW to show what they can do. I just grabbed four from my storage, didn't do any tweaking, an took em out hunting. I think it went okay.

https://vimeo.com/150313748

~Leone.

[Modo44]

The Nova can fly. It has silly JJ lift, allowing jump-sniping with lasers. It is enough to go up, let go to stabilize the reticule, fire a full burn, and still have enough JJ fuel left to land soft. It also means vertical mobility that 1 JJ mechs can not match, jumping on top/over almost any building/platform. This means different routes are available in battle - helpful to surprise people despite the mech's squishiness. Warning: This is a high skill mech. If you are not mobile enough, the arms fall off and/or you get cored easily.

[latinisator]

It all depends on which role you are playing.

My two cents:

Ice Ferret is okayish. This one is fast and can serve as a scout because of its speed and lack of weaponry. Laser builds end up hot or very close ranged. Mixed builds tend to have little ammunition.

The Shadow Cat is quite good if you know what you can do with it. It is jump capable. Imho in MW:O the Shadow Cat is best as a sniper. In CW I play mine with a pair of large pulse lasers and ECM. Position your Mech right and mind the minimap so you do not get surrounded and make use of the Shaow Cats manoeuvrability. You could go with some small pulse lasers / ER meds and (a)SRM/SSRMs and brawl your way with some speed - but I think other Mechs do it better.

The Stormcrow is one of them. Yes, the reason it is everybodys darling is its allround viability. It can do literally anything except jumping. Pure missile boat, pure laser boat, they all work extremely good.

The Nova is the other. As you stated, it is the slowest of the mediums of the Clans. But it can pack a punch. Its speed makes it an ideal partner of all other Clan Mechs equally paced. Take out two lasers from the Prime and replace them with two DHS. You still need not be alphaing your way but this load out is pretty strong. Or replace all lasers with small pulse lasers. Nowadays you could even mix two missile slots in there (with the Nova-D right arm hardpoint):
NVA-PRIME
Did I mention that it can jump?

In short: try out the mediums, be it in PTS to save you CBills. I, for my part, do love my Novas at least as much as Leone does. My Clan drop deck has two of them in it permanently.

[Rogue Jedi]

the Stormcrow is popular due to its versatility, as has already been said it is effective at pretty much any role which does not require Jump Jets, it also has excellent hitboxes meaning if you understand how to spread damage it can tank better than almost any other Medium (and most heavies), the Stormcrow is arguable the second best Mech in the game (behind the Timber Wold)

I have been unable to make the Ice Ferret work,

I think the Shadow Cat is pretty good, admittedly not as good as I had expected based on past games but it Jumps high, can take a Gauss and ECM, can do a great machine gun build (6MG and 2LPL) if you get behind someone who is not paying attention you can take it down inside 5 seconds, regardless of what it is.

the Nova is too hot to do what it was designed for, and if you alpha strike in the stock Prime it lives up to its name ^{(fires, shuts down, then usualy explodes before powering back up)} the Nova is the poster child for problems with MWOs implementation of Omnitech ^{(not that I have a problem with this implementation, it just seriously hurts a few Mechs, most notably Nova, Summoner and Mist Lynx)} , Omnimechs cannot change the engine, have fixed equipment and cannot change armor or structure type, so the Nova needs Endo, Fero and the option to remove its Jump Jets to become more competitive, the problem is if those changes were made it would be rather similar to the Stormcrow, also if is much less tanky than the Crow.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 30 December 2015 - 02:11 AM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

If you like standoff-sneaky-pokey, you'll be good in a SHC. <broken_record> My first 5-kill match since returning to MWO post-invasion, was in a SHC with 2x ERLL and a ERML. </broken_record> As stated above, the locked JJs and MASC kill any hope of better loadouts, really. 2x LPL can work. In close, you can do ERMLs and SRM6s/SSRM6s, and it's relatively powerful, but it won't live long with only a 45-tonner's armor. Gauss builds for it are just WEAK sauce, as they can't carry much in the way of ammo or backup weapons without sacrificing WAY too much armor.

I don't know the Nova very well. That said, they've been impressive whenever I've seen them under red doritos. Boating a crapload of ERSLs or SPLs will make it monstrous up close. It CAN poptart, too, I think. Haven't driven one yet (have the loyalty one around here somewhere), but I hear it's got TRAGIC ST hit boxes.

SCR is just stellar. That is, as long as you're not hooked on JJs or boating ballistics.

[Undercover Brother]

The Shadowcat P model is badassery at it's most underwhelming...Until you get hit by one. The 6 MGUNs, with 3 tons of ammo, coupled with the appropriate range upgrade, as well as a base model Targeting Computer, will chew through the last layers of armor and into the juicy innards of even the heaviest mechs, quickly. I swap out the right torso with the PRIME, and the right arm with the A, slap in 2 extra DHS and 2 ERLLASERS, and I've got an effective long range sniper that can shoot n scoot, and once the battle has effectively begun, can stay in the fight until enemy armor is thin, then chewing up and spitting out mech after mech after mech. This is NOT a "maximum damage" mech. This is a harasser, that can truly rack up kills, providing you team isn't wiped out in the first 3 minutes of a match.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

T Decker, on 30 December 2015 - 05:57 AM, said:

The Shadowcat P model is badassery at it's most underwhelming...Until you get hit by one. The 6 MGUNs, with 3 tons of ammo, coupled with the appropriate range upgrade, as well as a base model Targeting Computer, will chew through the last layers of armor and into the juicy innards of even the heaviest mechs, quickly. I swap out the right torso with the PRIME, and the right arm with the A, slap in 2 extra DHS and 2 ERLLASERS, and I've got an effective long range sniper that can shoot n scoot, and once the battle has effectively begun, can stay in the fight until enemy armor is thin, then chewing up and spitting out mech after mech after mech. This is NOT a "maximum damage" mech. This is a harasser, that can truly rack up kills, providing you team isn't wiped out in the first 3 minutes of a match.

My LPL SHC has the -P LA and all three MGs. I prefer to keep the ECM, but I imagine you could run the twin LPL and 6x MG, as long as you don't need TOO much ammo. The MGs, nerfed as they are, are still fairly nasty in large numbers...

[Koniving]

I could give you the BT explanations, but CJ you've been around long enough that with the way PGI made this game, MWO's bottom line requires significantly more tonnage than BT ever did of its mechs with 2x armor, 3x+ firing rates, and 1x tonnage limits. light-weight mediums using ballistics are...impaired to say the least. Use its speed, change its purpose from hard-hitting attack dog to hit-and-run skirmisher. Small or medium laser weapon, backed with some MGs or a spam-worthy AC/2 is bound to get some good results when using the MASC.

[Dave Woodchuck]

My two cents regarding the Nova: The Prime is too hot, but the S is just right. With its combination of 6 lasers and 4 machine guns, you have a decent little brawler with ridiculously good jump jets. Yes, it is only as fast as a Timber, but you have superior mobility for flanking, and you can dish out damage well. You can get in, fire an alpha, fire each arm, and pepper with MGs until you cool down, which happens pretty quick. If you peel the armor off someone, those MGs are stupid good at inflicting crits.

I wouldn't use it for poptarting. The weapons are too low, so you would have to expose your entire torso to shoot over a building or ridge. With the cruddy hitboxes, that is asking to get mauled.

The Nova is a finicky mech, but I love it. The JJs are especially good on maps like Alpine, where it lets you get a preposterously over-gunned medium up slopes that the enemy expects are only navigable by lights.

[Wildstreak]

Ice Ferret - Fast Medium that can boat Energy or do Energy & Missile mix. Can do mid ranged fighting with speed to help pick its spots or tanky Mech that dashes in to deliver an Alpha then flees to strike again.

Shadow Cat - Either stealth sniper or sneaky striker. Add 2-3 ranged weapons and move about with ECM cover to find spots to shoot people at long range. Load up 2-3 Energy and 2-3 SRMs then like the Ferret dash in for an Alpha then flee to strike again. A few have tried 1-2 LRM launchers. I also did one with 2 ERMLs and a Ultra10 but with limited ammo, you have to make the AC shots count, still good though.

Nova - More of a Fun Mech than serious. Most builds focus on Energy weapons, very few Missile mounts available, Ballistics are limited by space due to locked DHS.

Stormcrow - Popular due to weight, speed and weapons it can mount. Not as fast as the Shadow Cat MASC or not.

Not many Ballistic options at the Medium weight until the Hunchback IIC comes out for CB.

What do you want this for, just Quick Play or are you aiming for a CW drop Deck?

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Wildstreak, on 30 December 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

Stormcrow - Popular due to weight, speed and weapons it can mount. Not as fast as the Shadow Cat MASC or not.

Minor correction: Without MASC, the SHC and SCR do EXACTLY the same speed (97.2 km/h before Speed Tweak). SHC, though, also has MASC and six JJs, so it is more mobile.

I'm not sure of the movement archetypes, but I SUSPECT the SHC to be a smaller one than the SCR, and therefore more mobile. Feels that way. The SHC FEELS quicker, if not outright FASTER, than the SCR, if only a little.

[Ryokens leap]

I've been having a great time with my Shadowcsts lately. Been running 2 medpulse/ 3 srm4 Art, tc1 or 2 ermed/ 3 ssrm4, tc1. These work well for close range popping up over buildings and terrain, shooting down onto the target and dropping back out of sight. Great speed and mobility let u get into great flank positions. Unless u are long range sniping don't show ur face too long.

[CJ Daxion]

Thanks for all the great info.. Lots of it i kinda expected, just by watching how they play, and using smurfy to screw around with, but good to have it verified. I', still torn a bit.. At the start of making this clan account, my goal was to go adder, nova, summoner, warhawk.. It had all the mechs i've loved and thought it could be fun.. then i played the trial timber, and had a great time with it,, and that started me down the path of the Dark side..

I do just like to have pug fun for the most part.. but i am at the point that i think CW is in my near future.. I dabble with it on IS side over the last year, My drop deck IS side a Cicada 3m, Wolverine, or other medium, TDR-5SS, and Misery. All mechs i play well in, and my CW drops vary as i've only run pug drops, so we all know how that goes.

But that is sorta why i went clan only account, the way the CW is, i wanted it separate as i don't know what i will do when i get rolling if ever in it. And the way the game is, you can only play one mech, so really it doesn't matter if you have 1 account or 10.. it's all the same once ya get your unlocks.. Which honestly are going much faster on this account. Already have full seismic, and half way to info gathering, and all i've done is play 3 timbers to master.

But i really want a medium, and really wanted the nova.. But the darn Meta-crow just seems so flexible that i could do anything in it.. I know the Nova's will need all 3 to unlock to really run right, but the crow i'd bet is more like the timber.. and can run nicely before elites.

So yea, play for fun, CW down the road i suppose.. You all helped a lot.. But at the same time, i'm still stuck.. It kinda just makes me want to get a ton more mechs.. you know like IS side, so i can rarely play most of um

[Leone]

Okay, yeah, if you like flexibility, then yes, the Ryoken is the more flexible alternative.

However, there's one thing the Blackhawk has always been better at.

Being an awesome Nova! Pew Pew, Dakka-dakka-dakka, Pew Pew.

~Leone.

[Wildstreak]

TheRAbbi, on 30 December 2015 - 08:30 AM, said:

Minor correction: Without MASC, the SHC and SCR do EXACTLY the same speed (97.2 km/h before Speed Tweak). SHC, though, also has MASC and six JJs, so it is more mobile.

I'm not sure of the movement archetypes, but I SUSPECT the SHC to be a smaller one than the SCR, and therefore more mobile. Feels that way. The SHC FEELS quicker, if not outright FASTER, than the SCR, if only a little.

Huh, never noticed but I don't have Crows, I just thought they were the same 81/87 as some other Mechs.

Ryokens leap, on 30 December 2015 - 08:46 AM, said:

I've been having a great time with my Shadowcsts lately. Been running 2 medpulse/ 3 srm4 Art, tc1 or 2 ermed/ 3 ssrm4, tc1. These work well for close range popping up over buildings and terrain, shooting down onto the target and dropping back out of sight. Great speed and mobility let u get into great flank positions. Unless u are long range sniping don't show ur face too long.

Yeah but for CW, you need the 3MPL one, I also use 2 ASMR6 and make sure the shots count. This way when the SRMs run out or in certain times, I have 3MPL to shoot mid-range with.

Of my 3 Nova builds, I would only ever consider using the 4ERML/4SPL one in CW, I just don't because the Scats and now the Hunch IIC A does so much better, I even used the Hunch IIC A without any Elites unlocked, it is beautiful.

[Coralld]

Leone, on 30 December 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

Okay, yeah, if you like flexibility, then yes, the Ryoken is the more flexible alternative.

However, there's one thing the Blackhawk has always been better at.

Being an awesome Nova! Pew Pew, Dakka-dakka-dakka, Pew Pew.

~Leone.

That's my favorit Nova build as well, UAC10 with 6x ERSL, that is a mean little mech.

[Vlad Striker]

Nova is a deadly flanker but this is it's only battle role. This mech can carry 3 AMS or 4MG, this is good bonus for 50t. 2-3 Novas equpped with 3AMS can nullify enemy's LRM power at all.

Edited by Vlad Striker, 30 December 2015 - 11:35 PM.