88 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Alistair Winter, on 04 January 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

Although I don't care about LRM boat teams, I will say this:

All guided missiles are in a special state in MWO where the players demand that they should be chronically underpowered. The second LRMs become a viable option, the forums are flooded with tears! People are saying "Guided missiles require no skill". And as someone who plays LRM boats quite regularly (I have Griffins, Catapults and Awesomes with absurd amounts of LRMs) I have to say:

They're right.

Well, it's a bit of an exaggeration. It requires some skill in terms of awareness and positioning. But you basically remove aiming skills from the equation. Anyone with a healthy body can get missile locks in MWO. And if you pay for Target Decay and Artemis, it's just absurdly easy.

Untill PGI actually makes it somewhat challenging to get missile locks, the cycle will continue. We will have periods of useless missiles and we will have periods of copious QQ on the forum. LRMs and Streaks will never be considered a respectable, admirable way of winning the game, untill PGI makes it harder to get missile locks. So you actually have to have aiming skills.

I'm not ashamed to say, I'll often get 1000 dmg matches in my AWS-8R, setting up in a good position and lazily lobbing LRMs while I'm eating a taco with my left hand. It's really not that hard, if you just know where to set up shop.


TL;DR - The QQ rivers will flow untill PGI makes it harder to get missile locks and uses aiming skills to balance LRMs and Streaks, instead of only positioning. Guided missiles are the only weapons in MWO where aiming skills are irrelevant, and that's why people are so hostile towards LRM boats.

Please square your statement with the fact that "competitive" teams do not use LRMs. Otherwise, it should be "meta", and meta get to be abused the higher your tier is.

[Alistair Winter]

Roadkill, on 04 January 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

If you're paying for Artemis, you're doing it wrong.
Check your own stats. Mine say that Artemis results in 0.5% extra missiles hitting. If I somehow manage to fire 1000 missiles during a match, and extra 5 will hit.
Artemis is basically garbage added to a bad weapon.

Statistics can be misleading. Missile spread determines how many missiles are hitting the same component. They all may hit your target, but how many are hitting the CT?

It may be a bad weapon against the best players in MWO, but in the pug queue, it's a fantastic weapon, when used properly. It's been a long time since I listened to people who claimed otherwise.

[Lupis Volk]

I use LRM and they are very situational and you have to relay on a team for locks.

[Devilsfury]

To a new player, LRMs seem crazy overpowered. They can hit from 1000m (if you are in the open), people dont even need to see you to lock, and they auto track. There are numerous counters being ECM, cover, multiple AMS and target deprivation. Dont get me wrong, I hate LRMs but they can put up some huge numbers. I came back and played a few round today after a 4-5 month break and my highest scoring game was with LRMs. 994. But.. I was on the best map in game for missiles. (Caustic Valley) If I was on mining collective, I probably wouldnt have put up 300. Personally I prefer a gauss rifle and lasers.

[Tyler Valentine]

RoboPatton, on 04 January 2016 - 01:07 PM, said:

Go for cover, or close the gap.

OR BOTH! Is the OP for real?

[Navid A1]

I've been running my AWS-8R non-stop last night...

And now i feel guilty seeing this thread!

[Tyler Valentine]

Navid A1, on 04 January 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I've been running my AWS-8R non-stop last night...

And now i feel guilty seeing this thread!

I have a few missile boats, I actually just bought a Mad Dog specifically for the 6 LRM5 build, but if you can't get out of the way when you know it's coming... come on.

[Chuck Jager]

If you are new and somewhere in the 4-5 bracket you will find more LRMs and fewer ways to counter them because of lack of funds for derp mod or specific mechs with specific builds.

In the long run, they loose a lot of power as players get better. Also the types of people who want safe and easy bragging numbers are not the people who help win a competitive game. There are good players and groups who can use lrms at mid and high levels of play, but they are the exception, not the rule.

At tier 1 competitive play the games are too fast to compensate for the lock on and travel speed.

If you are not in trial mechs at least equip ams until you get speed tweak and/or radar derp.

[TheCharlatan]

sensen, on 04 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Personally I believe they are a sad excuse of exploiting the game. When a team does nothing but volley at a distance and kill half the enemy team in a matter of minutes, it's no fun. My friend says that they won't do anything and I'm not expecting them to because they don't care (they have our money) but we the players should be better than this. We should play the game the way it was meant to be played, not some cheap easy mode/ lazy way. I just wanted to say my opinion and I'm sure others before me already posted similar stuff. GLHF Mechwarriors!

I meet such a team today...
My PUG team just rushed them and destroyed them in seconds, just by moving from cover to cover and shooting at spotters/UAVs.
LRMs are stronger the more inexperienced the targets are.
Don't want to be rude, but this is a "get better at the game and you will understand how things are in truth" kind of situation.

[LordNothing]

id like to see lerm boats used in a highly coordinated fashon. 4 boats, 4 defensive skirmishers and 4 narc/tag/ecm scouts all working together would be an awesome force. would be awesome seeing hundreds of missiles all headed for the same target.

of course coordinated teams tend to not be huge missile fanatics and would for the most part find them useless opting for laser vomit. so you never see much coordination with missiles, and that is sad.

[AnimeFreak40K]

I like my LRM boats, I like my Streak Boats, I like my ShotgunWub mechs, I like my slow beefy brawlers.

I am not afraid to admit that not only do I have several LRM boats, but I sometimes have the most fun in them and often have my best matches in them (I'm talking top 1-3 in damage and/or match score here).

My personal experience with my effectiveness with an LRM boat as well as being on the receiving end of some pretty devastating rain honestly leads me to believe that people who adamantly hate LRMs and say they are terrible weapons haven't been on the receiving end of heavy rain and thus don't properly know what it's like to be unable to see or aim due to cockpit shake and explosions obscuring their vision.

I am also convinced that people who say LRMs are 'no-skill' weapons simply don't like them and are using statements like that as a tactic to try and shame me (and others) into giving them up.

...but then again, maybe there is something to what they're saying and I just don't understand because I am up there just behind the front lines with everyone else getting my own locks and keeping my targets within 300-500 meters if possible. And no, that is not necessarily the easiest thing to do in a Catapult.

[Roadkill]

Mcgral18, on 04 January 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

Half lock time, add TAG for 25%. It makes a difference if you ever want to actually hit something without staring...of course, I'll just take a laser that actually damages things in the first place and be more effective.

The point is, you don't actually hit anything all that more often. Whether it's allegedly because of decreased lock time, better missile tracking, or a tighter cluster... it doesn't actually happen in practice.

So yeah, give me another laser and a couple of heat sinks. Much better.

Alistair Winter, on 04 January 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

Statistics can be misleading. Missile spread determines how many missiles are hitting the same component. They all may hit your target, but how many are hitting the CT?

Yeah but they don't all hit your target. When you're only hitting with 30-40% of your missiles in the first place, it doesn't really matter if the cluster is marginally tighter. You simply aren't doing enough damage for the tonnage, period.

Quote

It may be a bad weapon against the best players in MWO, but in the pug queue, it's a fantastic weapon, when used properly. It's been a long time since I listened to people who claimed otherwise.

No, it's still a bad weapon. It's just that the players in the PUG queue generally include enough bads that you can make good use of a bad weapon.

I get it, they're fun. I use them myself rather more than I should. But I don't kid myself by claiming that they're good or even minimally viable because they really aren't. Sure you can put up good numbers probably rake in some decent c-bills, but your team would have been better off if you'd been in a Mech with lay-zors or goose waffles.

My main c-bill farming ride is an LRM boat. I make buckets of space bucks in that Mech. But that doesn't mean LRMs are good

[Felicitatem Parco]

sensen, on 04 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Personally I believe they are a sad excuse of exploiting the game. When a team does nothing but volley at a distance and kill half the enemy team in a matter of minutes, it's no fun. My friend says that they won't do anything and I'm not expecting them to because they don't care (they have our money) but we the players should be better than this. We should play the game the way it was meant to be played, not some cheap easy mode/ lazy way. I just wanted to say my opinion and I'm sure others before me already posted similar stuff. GLHF Mechwarriors!

How did the 12 man LRM team get through all 12 of your team's AMS defenses, plus your ECM Mechs?

You all did have AMS, right?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

sensen, on 04 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Personally I believe they are a sad excuse of exploiting the game.

You DO realize LRMs are the most nerfed weapon in this entire game right?

You basically need adv target decay artemis and TAG, as well as engaging at half to a quarter of the weapon's actual range just to get an average to low amount of damage out of it.

What other weapon can say it needs (needs as in it needs it or youre throwing away ammo basically, not that it needs that stuff to be fired) an equipment, a module and to waste an energy slot just to get average to low damage?

Roadkill, on 04 January 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

The point is, you don't actually hit anything all that more often. Whether it's allegedly because of decreased lock time, better missile tracking, or a tighter cluster... it doesn't actually happen in practice.

So yeah, give me another laser and a couple of heat sinks. Much better.


Yeah but they don't all hit your target. When you're only hitting with 30-40% of your missiles in the first place, it doesn't really matter if the cluster is marginally tighter. You simply aren't doing enough damage for the tonnage, period.


No, it's still a bad weapon. It's just that the players in the PUG queue generally include enough bads that you can make good use of a bad weapon.

I get it, they're fun. I use them myself rather more than I should. But I don't kid myself by claiming that they're good or even minimally viable because they really aren't. Sure you can put up good numbers probably rake in some decent c-bills, but your team would have been better off if you'd been in a Mech with lay-zors or goose waffles.

My main c-bill farming ride is an LRM boat. I make buckets of space bucks in that Mech. But that doesn't mean LRMs are good

Right. Theyve been nerfed into oblivion

because ppl cant figure out how to not be out in the open and/or equip AMS. Youd think those of us who were in the beta wouldnt have been able to play the game at all prior to AMS/ECM being put in but we did, and the LRMs used to track in at your mech from 90 degrees up.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 04 January 2016 - 04:29 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

Roadkill, on 04 January 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

No, it's still a bad weapon. It's just that the players in the PUG queue generally include enough bads that you can make good use of a bad weapon.
I get it, they're fun. I use them myself rather more than I should. But I don't kid myself by claiming that they're good or even minimally viable because they really aren't. Sure you can put up good numbers probably rake in some decent c-bills, but your team would have been better off if you'd been in a Mech with lay-zors or goose waffles.
My main c-bill farming ride is an LRM boat. I make buckets of space bucks in that Mech. But that doesn't mean LRMs are good

I don't really find them very fun. And I don't use them to farm C-bills. I use them to improve my PSR, because my LRM boats are consistently winning matches, getting kills and wrecking faces. You can go and pretend they're not "minimally viable", whatever that means, but if I'm getting good scores with those weapons, your opinion doesn't really affect me.

You can take the approach that everything other than a TBR / EBJ / TDR laserboat is hurting my team, but that kind of discussion is just so very dull.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Alistair Winter, on 04 January 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

"minimally viable"

dont pretend you dont know what that means. Youve been here long enough -.-

Or from the horse's mouth:

http://mwomercs.com/...dpost__p__74805

[Alistair Winter]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 January 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

dont pretend you dont know what that means. Youve been here long enough -.-

It can mean different things in different contexts. In this context, it makes no sense. It's like saying every clan mech except the Timber Wolf is not minimally viable.

[Hexenhammer]

[Lostdragon]

Lupis Volk, on 04 January 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

I use LRM and they are very situational and you have to relay on a team for locks.

If you are relying on your team for locks you are doing it wrong. You should be moving with the team and Tagging your targets from about 600 meters, focusing fore whenever possible.

[Alistair Winter]

Navid A1, on 04 January 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

I've been running my AWS-8R non-stop last night...

And now i feel guilty seeing this thread!

Don't worry. They're not even minimally viable.

(See above)