88 replies to this topic

[Roadkill]

Alistair Winter, on 04 January 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

I don't really find them very fun. And I don't use them to farm C-bills. I use them to improve my PSR, because my LRM boats are consistently winning matches, getting kills and wrecking faces. You can go and pretend they're not "minimally viable", whatever that means, but if I'm getting good scores with those weapons, your opinion doesn't really affect me.

I find it hard to believe that your W/L ratio in Tier 2 is better in an LRM boat than it is in some other (good) Mech. I suspect that you're suffering from confirmation bias - you're remembering the good games and writing off the bad ones subconsciously.

LRMs are pretty good against bad players, but then again just about any weapon is pretty good against bad players.

I like LRMs. I use LRMs. But I also recognize that they're not a good weapon. I just happen to be pretty good at picking out the easy targets and using LRMs to abuse them. You may be similar.

I mean... c'mon. 7 tons for an IS LRM-15 that averages 5 damage per shot, needs a couple of seconds to lock on, and then needs a couple of seconds for the payload to arrive?

Quote

You can take the approach that everything other than a TBR / EBJ / TDR laserboat is hurting my team, but that kind of discussion is just so very dull.

That's not my approach at all, even though it's probably technically true.

There are very few people who are actually so good with LRMs that they're not hurting their teams. It's entirely possible that you're one of those rare people. I know of a couple others. But seriously, those people are rare. LRMs are just that bad.

I'm not telling anyone not to use them. I use them. I have a blast in my LRM boats. And this is a game, so having a blast is really the point. But even when racking up 800-1000 damage in an LRM boat, in the back of my mind I'm still cognizant of the fact that it's a quirk of luck (read: bads for targets) that's allowing it to happen.

LRMs are so bad that I don't run Radar Derp or AMS, even on my Assaults, and I still don't get hit by LRMs all that often let alone killed.

[Masterbagger]

OP:

"Ban teamwork."

[Novakaine]

Bunch of cry babies.
Skill-less my rear exhaust port.
If you're standing on a ridge line skylining yourself you deserve a salvo to the face.
"I'm Gawd's gift to brawl-dom fear my quad dakka dakka!!!"
"Warning incoming missles!"
"Aw crap mommy!"
Come on people stop complaining about lrm's
Simply don't be the primary target.
See ya on the battlefield.

[Deathlike]

I feel like I've seen this all before.

The cyclic nature of the complaining still stems from a core level of misunderstanding the weapon system and its counters.

Ultimately, it is what sets basic competence in this game... sadly.

It doesn't even matter whether you like or dislike LRMs... it's whether you have a clue on dealing with them.

[Sable]

Funny to hear the meta fools think LRMs aren't good. Been seeing more and more of them in CW, tearing meta teams apart. With the nerf to ECM LRM mechs have a much easier time holding locks and bringing the pain. I've been trying to convince my unit mates to bring more AMS but they all laugh like it's an absurd idea. Then they ***** and moan when they get rained on. Mock it all you want but the game is changing again and LRMs are part of the change.

[Deathlike]

Sable, on 04 January 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Funny to hear the meta fools think LRMs aren't good. Been seeing more and more of them in CW, tearing meta teams apart. With the nerf to ECM LRM mechs have a much easier time holding locks and bringing the pain. I've been trying to convince my unit mates to bring more AMS but they all laugh like it's an absurd idea. Then they ***** and moan when they get rained on. Mock it all you want but the game is changing again and LRMs are part of the change.

CW isn't the place to reliably compare balance.

Besides, countering LRM boats is still stupidly easy.

[Johny Rocket]

Deathlike, on 04 January 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

CW isn't the place to reliably compare balance.

Besides, countering LRM boats is still stupidly easy.

Until its not. Then you're dead. Know whats worse than being focused down by 6+ meta mechs when you push? When they got a good lrm5 spammer right behind them. Fire blindly around, its the only hope you have.

Most of the counters to lrms have counters and these tend to be organic. Jesus box doesn't protect you when the lurmer has a friendly in your face. I like cw because pushes lead to brawling. AMS gives away your location and lurmers will use them to hunt you down for their team. etc etc

I do well running lrm5 spammers in cw. Pretty consistent scores. But we use coms and play as a team.

[Revorn]

Problems with an LRM5? Try AMS. Its Magic.

[Johny Rocket]

Revorn, on 04 January 2016 - 06:45 PM, said:

Problems with an LRM5? Try AMS. Its Magic.

tell yourself that all you want Ill waste half of it to pound the other half down on you and when they are coming 5 every.5 sec nonstop you are still dead.

Edited by Tractor Joe, 04 January 2016 - 07:42 PM.

[Foxwalker]

Sable, on 04 January 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Funny to hear the meta fools think LRMs aren't good. Been seeing more and more of them in CW, tearing meta teams apart. With the nerf to ECM LRM mechs have a much easier time holding locks and bringing the pain. I've been trying to convince my unit mates to bring more AMS but they all laugh like it's an absurd idea. Then they ***** and moan when they get rained on. Mock it all you want but the game is changing again and LRMs are part of the change.

Actually been seeing LRMs in high tiers in regular play a lot lately. I can believe that the ECM nerf is directly responsible for this.

[Deathlike]

Foxwalker, on 04 January 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Actually been seeing LRMs in high tiers in regular play a lot lately. I can believe that the ECM nerf is directly responsible for this.

Define "high tier".

If there's LRMs, you are being trolled instead.

[SelectiveCape12]

Deathlike, on 04 January 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Define "high tier".

If there's LRMs, you are being trolled instead.

I like my Mad Dog with LRMs. Plus, lately I've seen a lot of Stalkers, Hunchbacks, Battlemasters, Atlases, even Direwolves with a decked out LRM boat build. But it doesn't necessarily mean those LRM boats are piloted by tier 1s; they could be tier 3 for all we know cause of the tier 1-3 MM. If nothing else, high tier will have their boat builds.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

SelectiveCape12, on 04 January 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

even Direwolves

Uh its hard to boat something in a mech with 1 or 2 missile slots max

2 lrm 20s does not a boat make lol

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 04 January 2016 - 08:14 PM.

[SelectiveCape12]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 04 January 2016 - 08:13 PM, said:

Uh its hard to boat something in a mech with 1 or 2 missile slots max

2 lrm 20s does not a boat make lol

Well the guy had 3 LPLs and 2 LRM 20s and nothing else. He did quite well that match too. But the fact is that he chose to focus on LRMs as one of his main weapons.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Foxwalker, on 04 January 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Actually been seeing LRMs in high tiers in regular play a lot lately. I can believe that the ECM nerf is directly responsible for this.

I like to think my persistence is directly responsible for this, but I'm full of it sooo....

Deathlike, on 04 January 2016 - 07:55 PM, said:

Define "high tier".

If there's LRMs, you are being trolled instead.

Well, T1 obviously.

Or do you think that just b/c YOU don't bring them to T1 games that no one does?

If that's what you think, you're very very wrong.

[GrimRiver]

LRMs are super bad and rarely get kills unless: You're already cored. You're standing out in the open and being rained to death. LRMboat is sporting high amount of LRMs 3+ LRM5's, 2+ LRM10's, 2+ LRM20's.

Chain-firing 3+ LRM5's are VERY good at breaking up an enemy team.

But there are ALOT of ways to counter LRM's such as:
1.Cover with a steep angle, roof or tall objects.
2.ECM.
3.AMS.
4.Moving out of sight with radar derp.
5.Moving in under the 180m range limit of LRM's.
6.Random LRM's hitting an inviso wall in midair(no not a nearby AMS as AMS blows missles up one at a time but the inviso wall blows them up all at once under 180m even when standing out in total open). - Unknown reason why, rare to happen.

[Pika]

sensen, on 04 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Personally I believe they are a sad excuse of exploiting the game. When a team does nothing but volley at a distance and kill half the enemy team in a matter of minutes, it's no fun. My friend says that they won't do anything and I'm not expecting them to because they don't care (they have our money) but we the players should be better than this. We should play the game the way it was meant to be played, not some cheap easy mode/ lazy way. I just wanted to say my opinion and I'm sure others before me already posted similar stuff. GLHF Mechwarriors!

I had to double check the date on this. You are aware LRMs are so bad most people here think they need a buff, right? Here is the long and short on the state of LRMs: If they killed you, you SERIOUSLY messed up or were about to blow up anyways. Break LOS on the firer and then move 90 degrees from their direction of travel. If they keep coming, someone can see you and you should reposition.

They're so bad it's incredible. The last time I died to one was around November or so.

Edited by Pika, 04 January 2016 - 08:54 PM.

[Chrome Magnus]

sensen, on 04 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Personally I believe they are a sad excuse of exploiting the game. When a team does nothing but volley at a distance and kill half the enemy team in a matter of minutes, it's no fun. My friend says that they won't do anything and I'm not expecting them to because they don't care (they have our money) but we the players should be better than this. We should play the game the way it was meant to be played, not some cheap easy mode/ lazy way. I just wanted to say my opinion and I'm sure others before me already posted similar stuff. GLHF Mechwarriors!

One, that doesn't happen. Two, you are not the first one to think "they won't do anything, they already have our money" despite the constant adjustments, nerfs and buffs which show such fears to be as hollow as a cheap chocolate easter bunny. mmm cheap chocolate easter bunny...

Don't worry, if it gets too bad they will nerf LRMs again. Frankly I don't think they're too bad and am glad to see them become viable again though I wouldn't mind seeing ECM get a 20 meter buff.

[Lykaon]

sensen, on 04 January 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Personally I believe they are a sad excuse of exploiting the game. When a team does nothing but volley at a distance and kill half the enemy team in a matter of minutes, it's no fun. My friend says that they won't do anything and I'm not expecting them to because they don't care (they have our money) but we the players should be better than this. We should play the game the way it was meant to be played, not some cheap easy mode/ lazy way. I just wanted to say my opinion and I'm sure others before me already posted similar stuff. GLHF Mechwarriors!

Ok first off you need to understand the way LRMs work.

1) You must have a target lock to lock and launch an LRM volley. Deny the enemy the means to gain a target lock and LRMs are dead weight. So if a team is LRMing yours into the dirt your team is allowing it to happen by not doing enough to prevent locking and launching.

Ways to do this: ECM coverage, Obstructing cover and Radar derp modules, Prevent UAV spotting by scanning the sky for enemy UAVs and shooting them down ASAP! Suppression of enemy spotting mechs. Remember if you are being hit by LRMs there is something that can "see" you. If you are not "seen" you can not be hit.

I know it is impossible to be out of target sight for ever because hiding doesn't win games.And this brings me to part two...

2) know the weakness of the weapon. LRMs have some severe weaknesses that can be exploited. Learn what those weaknesses are and exploit them.

Ways to do this: Clan LRMs fire in a ripple pattern.The LRM volley impacts as a stream of ordnance.This means that aggressive and active manuvering can spread the damage over multiple armor locals. So torso twist as the LRMs strike. You may wonder how this helps? By dispersing the damage your mech will be more intact for the next part...

ADVANCE ON LRMS!!! Yes I said ADVANCE the thing puggies are bad at. When you see your enemy has a lot of LRMs you must close the distance to remove the range and indirect fire advantages.Inner Sphere LRMs are absolutley useless at ranges of 180m and lower and clan LRMs are significantly reduced in effectivness at shorter ranges as well (around 90m or so for clan LRMs to be reduced to easily handled damage levels)

If you sit at range letting yourself and your team get bombarded by LRMs it's nobody's fault but your own.

When advancing it is important that EVERYONE advances. if one or two mechs try to close while the rest hides those couple of mechs that tried to close will be overwhelmed. Present multiple targets to the enemy so most of your mechs will be not be advancing under LRM fire. Also remember LRM must have a target lock to launch indirectly with any degree of effectivness. So use cover as you approach but do not linger to long in cover.The key is a rapid approach using cover to close the distance on LRM carriers.

Once you have advanced do not get distracted.Your primaries are the LRM carriers.If those enemy LRMs are allowed to fall back you have allowed the enemy to reset the battle line and you are in the same situation as before.Target and destroy LRM carriers first.

LRMs prey on disorganized and uncoordinated teams. Teams that are coordinated can easily push out on LRM barrages and force a close range confrontation.

And finally AMS...

Anti Missile Systems are very handy for those pushes into enemy LRM barrages. A single AMS is good for about 5 LRMs in a volley. So if you have enough concentrated AMS the hard LRM rain can be reduced to a gentle pattering on your mech's hull.

In CW many of the clanners have taken to using concentrated LRM fire as a counter to the I.S. range advantage (I can't believe I just typed that but...it's true)

As a reaction to this the CW groups from my merc corp pack at least one AMS per mech. So we frequently have 12-14 AMS on the field at once. The result of this is LRMs do nearly no damage when 50 to 60 of the LRMs in a volley are destroyed before they hit a target. We then ADVANCE and destroy.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

Personally, if I'm taking out a mech that I have LRM's on. I usually run an LRM 30 [2 LRM15's] This extends to either Clan or Innersphere. I bring quite a bit of ammo to last me a match, but I ALSO bring an assortment of backup weapons, that allow me to be useful in a normal fight.

My founder's cat, 2lrm15's, 4mlas. ammo and heatsinks as needed. My Timberwolf, 2CLRM15, 2CERLL, 2CERML, 2MG. My Atlas 7D Founders. 2LL, 2ML, 1AC10, 1SRM6, 1LRM10 [the exception to the LRM20 rule]

The reasoning for this is I can function at all ranges, and still be effective. No I'm not AS effective as if I specialized. But I also run with lore-inspired and focused builds. The LRM's allow an otherwise short ranged mech [see the 4ml catapult, or the Atlas] to at least be an asset to the team as I move up and close distances. It also allows me to be an annoyance, to distract you from bigger possible threats.

If I'm playing an LRM focused mech, my job is to make you salty, to distract you from the real targets and to do as much damage as I can to keep you off balance. If you hate me for doing my job, then my job has been done well.