67 replies to this topic

[MadCat02]

I always see 3-4 Premade groups from different factions and each stay in different place so they can farm noobs and not play against players of similar skill . Then when you get into match they ****** about beeing better players because they know 12 person team can beat 12 random players.

Funny how you can get 12 person team against 8 players who still have default paintjob on their mechs since they haven't even played the game long enough to change it . +4 people who just facepalm about Premades talking crap all game as if it takes skill to farm a server with 12 people .

How can you have +93% winrate in faction Warfare? From a balancing and fair matchmaking point how does that make any sense ? I see same Premade groups stay in one place just waiting for unfortunate random players who have nearly Zero chance to win .

Even worth they don't try to combat other premades because WIn=More C-bills so why not stay and farm random players ? Why look for hard match . They don't

You allow big Premade groups to farm new players over and over .

If you not in 8+people group there only so many rooms that are full . 70% of the time I end up playing against large premade groups with 11 random players .

Well I guess I just gona look for Premade groups farming from Davion side myself . Who cares about matchmaker or fair play .

You know some games got it right and don't allow large Teams to play together against random players . You could at least limit it to 4 people instead of 12 .

I like the concept of teamwork based games but am I the only person who thinks that 12 person team should not play against 12 random players ? Its bullcrap

Edited by MadCat02, 06 January 2016 - 05:11 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

I

CAN'T

EVEN

!

(Teamwork is OP. We know. Each IS faction has one, MAYBE TWO, Clan planets they get to attack right now. Sorry 'bout your luck. Get a team together. Win. It's that simple.)

[bayoucowboy]

First - read the disclosure that pops up when you select faction warfare (I know - we have been trained not to read pop ups by the many legal disclosures lawyers have forced upon society - but read it)

Second - if you decide faction warfare is still for you - check out the Davion TeamSpeak 3 server at ts50.bargainvoice.com:7345
We are always setting up "premade" CW groups, there are many players on there from many different units, and most are helpful to new players that want to play in CW

Third - there is no matchmaker in CW. It's meant to be that way. Maybe they will change it in the future to allow solos and smaller groups the chance to experience the game mode "more fairly", but not right now. The most "fair" matches you get as a solo are in the solo/quick play queue.

[MadCat02]

12 people enjoying 90% winrate . That is not teamwork that is one broken gameplay mode .

Pretty sure its obvious that there is no matchmaker . My point is that there should be some kind of limitation .

I don't care what some quotes say . Does not mean 90% of MWO population should endure this terrible design .

Edited by MadCat02, 06 January 2016 - 06:21 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

The limitation? Join a team, or at least find one to drop with.

Look, I'm not down with the "GIT GUD" crowd. But REALLY, man? REALLY?!

Even the game's developer cautions us AWAY from its premier game mode. How often does a game do that? Does this not raise some red flags?

Yes, there SHOULD be some match maker as long as brand new solo players CAN drop in that mode. But there isn't right now. Sorry. It sucks, I agree. And right now, the official MWO forum is almost literally overflowing with rant threads on this very topic.

In the meantime, a team can't usually fing the drop they want WITH a decent competitor, so they end up with no-challenge drops against a bunch of solo players and small groups, and twelve minutes in are legging each other for giggles while the DROPSHIP kills more of them than do enemy mechs. Sucks all around, I assure you.

And no. NO ONE IS FARMING YOU. It's not a damned conspiracy. It's a game with an influx of new players who apparently can't/won't read.

[IraqiWalker]

Look, it's really simple. CW is a mode primarily centered around teams, and teamwork. If you want to have any hope of winning, you need to use Faction Chat, in-game VoIP, and coordinate with people.

I've seen teams of 12 pugs beat 12 man unit teams. Hell I organized one myself back in CW2 on the FRR front, against Clan Ghost Bear. We were 12 solo players from at least 3 different IS factions, and we worked together, and over the course of 3 matches managed to form a team, and actually beat that 12 man.

You have the tools to coordinate and win. Use them.

Faction Chat
in-game VoIP
Forums
Teamspeak
and LFG.

[Azzgaroth]

IraqiWalker, on 06 January 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Look, it's really simple. CW is a mode primarily centered around teams, and teamwork. If you want to have any hope of winning, you need to use Faction Chat, in-game VoIP, and coordinate with people.

I've seen teams of 12 pugs beat 12 man unit teams. Hell I organized one myself back in CW2 on the FRR front, against Clan Ghost Bear. We were 12 solo players from at least 3 different IS factions, and we worked together, and over the course of 3 matches managed to form a team, and actually beat that 12 man.

You have the tools to coordinate and win. Use them.

Faction Chat
in-game VoIP
Forums
Teamspeak
and LFG.

Its exacly how it work. If you wanna play solo go quick play or face anhilation. Another lil trick: when you join Q and you see 8 team of 1 and you dont feel being rolled over, just change planet or game mode.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Im not going to specifically name the teams..

But there are more than a couple that I have smashed on a regular basis with just one lance mate and a buncha pugs.

A grouped up team can be presumed to mean one thing and one thing alone: they grouped up.

Further, if you are so sure that grouping up will make you win, then group up!

[Rogue Jedi]

larger teams do have an advantage in FW, the reason there is no matchmaker is that not enough people play that mode regularly to make a skill based matchmaker, as things stand it is not unusual to be waiting 5-10 minutes for a game, then wait 10 minutes for an enemy to show up.
If there was a matchmaker you would likely quadruple that wait time, if you were likely looking at 30+ minutes waiting for each game would you play?

[Ace Selin]

Here is the Farm Mode simulator you were after , glad i could help....

[jss78]

IraqiWalker, on 06 January 2016 - 06:40 PM, said:

Look, it's really simple. CW is a mode primarily centered around teams, and teamwork. If you want to have any hope of winning, you need to use Faction Chat, in-game VoIP, and coordinate with people.

I've seen teams of 12 pugs beat 12 man unit teams. Hell I organized one myself back in CW2 on the FRR front, against Clan Ghost Bear. We were 12 solo players from at least 3 different IS factions, and we worked together, and over the course of 3 matches managed to form a team, and actually beat that 12 man.

You have the tools to coordinate and win. Use them.

Faction Chat
in-game VoIP
Forums
Teamspeak
and LFG.

I agree fully. There's no way around that you need to communicate well to get anything done in FW. At a bare minimum you need an experienced guy willing to drop call (often you do get one), and the rest of the team to listen and preferably to call targets also. But once that's achieved, you can at least challenge, if not necessarily win, many of the 12-man teams you run into.

Most of the 12-mans you run into are nothing special in terms of individual skill. And a lot of the PUGs are actually Tier 1-3 guys with good mechs and good baseline ability. The 12-mans are basically PUGs with teamspeak, nothing more, nothing less -- get organized and you can beat them.

While I think the team-oriented nature of FW is a good thing, I think the reality is though that FW will need to get some type of MM. There's just not enough player base to populate FW with well-organized teams -- most of the player base will always be lone-wolf casuals who'll form ad hoc PUG teams at best. Nothing wrong with this, just the nature of things. And however much we extol the virtues of TS/VOIP etc., the PUG teams will never be able to realistically challenge especially the better 12-man teams -- it's just a bad matchup, no way around it.

Edited by jss78, 07 January 2016 - 01:34 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

The only thing the matchmaker does in CW is put up 12 people against another 12 people of the appropriate opposing factions.

There is NO balancing of player experience

There is NO balancing of player skill

There is NO balancing of player's mechs

There is NO balancing of anything other than getting 12 people together against another 12 people

It is up to the player to manage his OWN game experience by making appropriate choices in every particular.

@PGI - please put this in your CW disclaimer instead of that wall of text that too many people do not seem to understand.

[Appogee]

I'm equally in pre-mades and solo, and even I think it is ridiculous that PGI has enabled large pre-mades to farm the CW queue for so long.

Disclaiming CW as "hardcore mode" is not the solution. Nor is blaming "not enough players". These are just excuses for a developer not making the mode workable for their actual player base, and turning new players away.

These problems are entirely fixable, if PGI could be bothered. For the sake of the longevity of their own product, they need to:
1. Prohibit players from joining CW until they qualify, by demonstrating expertise in the solo queue. Being permitted to play the CW meta-game should be an aspiration for a new player, not a deterrent to them sticking with the game.

2. Introduce group size matchmaking immediately. And skill level matchmaking eventually.

3. Limit CW planetary attack options to concentrate players in fewer battles. The number of options to attack should scale based on the number of players seeking matches. And if the number is gravely low, then just pick one planet and funnel all Clan players and IS players to that planet. That will also alleviate wait times.


If any of these solutions mean I have to wait longer for matches, so be it. Because the alternative - participating in the active destruction of the entire game mode, with lop-sided battle after lop-sided battle - is ultimately much worse.

Edited by Appogee, 07 January 2016 - 02:20 AM.

[p4r4g0n]

Group matchmaking does not work well as has been demonstrated in the past and continues to be amply demonstrated in the Public Group Queue at least not by using an individual player's Elo or PSR rating and averaging it. Far as I know, other group based type rating have been considered and discarded as not viable.

Your other points are valid. I am awaiting the latest iteration of CW to see if PGI is going to use the 4v4 CW matches wisely i.e. as a way to transition players from solo/group public queue to full-scale 12v12 CW matches.

Personally, I think the 4v4's will be where I will be playing mostly since my game time/mode does not really facilitate dropping in larger groups these days.

Edited by p4r4g0n, 07 January 2016 - 02:38 AM.

[Appogee]

My 8-man CW team played an awful match against Davion PUGs tonight.

It was a complete stomp - two thirds of the enemy team were in trial Mechs, trying to counter-attack us on Emerald Taiga. We beat them 12-48 or something, and that was only after we tried to let them get some kills.

I apologised to them after the match about how stacked against them the odds had been. But they didn't say a word.

[Bilbo]

I'm not sure what one would expect playing a game mode that has no match making considerations beyond ensuring there are 12 people on each team. 12 of the worst players in the game, if actually working together on comms of some sort, can roll a random group of players who are not using comms, no matter their skill level, on most occasions.

[SlimeLVL1]

I can't really hate a group of 12 guys who decided they want to win by working together, dedicating their time in farming people who have a lesser coordination and experience. Why? Because all is fair in war.

[MechWarrior3671771]

But its not war, its a video game for entertainment. Are you having fun? That's what matters. In war, cheating is allowed, even encouraged. We did an op where I hacked the enemies freqs and got the drop on them. Doing that here would be frowned upon

Hey OP, ask these guys what them mean when they advise "join a team". They use it like a talisman to ward off disgruntled new players, but I'm thinking there must be more than that to it.

See if they will give you details. Does it need to be a team that plays CW? What level of activity should the team have in CW? One drop a month? One drop a week? Should the team have some kind of training program to help new players get up to speed? Does the team need to have TS servers?

Because I'm thinking its a bit more complex than "join a team"

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 07 January 2016 - 03:46 PM.

[SlimeLVL1]

Fen Tetsudo, on 07 January 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

But its not war, its a video game for entertainment. Are you having fun? That's what matters. In war, cheating is allowed, even encouraged. We did an op where I hacked the enemies freqs and got the drop on them. Doing that here would be frowned upon

Hey OP, ask these guys what them mean when they advise "join a team". They use it like a talisman to ward off disgruntled new players, but I'm thinking there must be more than that to it.

See if they will give you details. Does it need to be a team that plays CW? What level of activity should the team have in CW? One drop a month? One drop a week? Should the team have some kind of training program to help new players get up to speed? Does the team need to have TS servers?

Because I'm thinking its a bit more complex than "join a team"

Whoa you don't have to break a galactic war outside it's world boundaries. This is war damn it! Let us not put Neo into this like we in the Matrix!

[Bilbo]

Fen Tetsudo, on 07 January 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

But its not war. In war, cheating is allowed, even encouraged. We did an op where I hacked the enemies freqs and got the drop on them. Doing that here would be frowned upon

Hey OP, ask these guys what them mean when they advise "join a team". They use it like a talisman to ward off disgruntled new players, but I'm thinking there must be more than that to it.

See if they will give you details. Does it need to be a team that plays CW? What level of activity should the team have in CW? One drop a month? One drop a week? Should the team have some kind of training program to help new players get up to speed? Does the team need to have TS servers?

Because I'm thinking its a bit more complex than "join a team"

In general, it means grouping up with any set of people who are willing to communicate and operate in a cohesive fashion. Any of the public TS servers usually have people on who are not part of a unit or whose unit is not active at the moment and are willing to group up and work together. Actually joining a unit isn't necessarily required. To do well with any regularity in CW you are going to need to communicate and work with those who make up your team.