91 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

I love these. It illustrates exactly what CW that pug/group queues are not. There absolutely are conversations and arguments in faction TS about where to move units and when, where to double-down and take a gamble and when to give something up for lost.

Losing on all fronts can set people back too. It frustrates people and can affect future performance. There is a significant tactical meta game in CW.

It's a big part of what makes CW fun and these sorts of posts but a clear picture on that. Thank you.

[MingTheMerciless]

Agreed, damn fine stuff. Great pity that PGi doesn't tap into this and make a news ticker feed for everyone to read and enjoy. Adds some sorely needed player-created content to an otherwise lacklustre game mode.

[BigRed40Tech]

Hey, thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'll be dropping for some games after work tonight. Once I'm done, I'll be sure to update this. A lot has happened in the last 24 hours it would seem. A lot meaning that there have been major setbacks on the front, lol

Fair is fair, so I'll try to get an understanding of what happened while I wasn't around, and try to summarize it. Though hopefully by the end of tonight, I can add a positive twist for the FWLM

[Sandpit]

stormeagle, on 14 January 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

Hey, thanks for the feedback everyone.

I'll be dropping for some games after work tonight. Once I'm done, I'll be sure to update this. A lot has happened in the last 24 hours it would seem. A lot meaning that there have been major setbacks on the front, lol

Fair is fair, so I'll try to get an understanding of what happened while I wasn't around, and try to summarize it. Though hopefully by the end of tonight, I can add a positive twist for the FWLM

Marik always slows down this time of the week. Our players usually scatter a bit mid-week and then by Friday we're back to having 2-3 bays going.
Man cannot live on MWO alone

Sometimes personally I just have to "unplug" and not even turn the PC on. Catch up on movies and TV shows, do some sketching, etc. Keeps you from getting burnt out and such, at least for me

[beerandasmoke]

Sandpit, on 14 January 2016 - 09:41 AM, said:

Marik always slows down this time of the week. Our players usually scatter a bit mid-week and then by Friday we're back to having 2-3 bays going.
Man cannot live on MWO alone

Sometimes personally I just have to "unplug" and not even turn the PC on. Catch up on movies and TV shows, do some sketching, etc. Keeps you from getting burnt out and such, at least for me

I believe the multiple naps are hurting us as well. The FCs were having a hard time finding fights earlier in the week. Having 4 fronts but only 1 you can drop on just kills action. Unfortunately that front is against the smallest faction in the game who are focused on the Davion front. The council really needs to rethink handing out these naps like candy. No one wants to shoot pylons all night long.

The best thing we can do to retain players is too provide action on multiple fronts to keep players active. If your the leader of a small group just entering marik how would you feel getting told by a loyalist that you could only attack on one front which means ghostdrops in NA primetime. Same goes for new players. No new player wants to ghost drop as well and they wont stay if forced to do so.

What the council needs to do is simply provide direction to loyalist FCs on which front they prefer loyalists and other groups drop. It should be up to the FCs discretion though to drop on other fronts to get action for his guys if the prefered front is dead rather than forcing them to ghost for a worthless planet.

If were going to grow the faction then its up to us too provide the action necessary to attract players to Marik. Kinda like field of dreams if you provide the action they will come.

[BigRed40Tech]

I don’t really like to air dirty laundry in public, like openly denouncing the current policies of the House, or getting into arguments with people in open forum about this kind of stuff, but I’m just gonna be straight forward in the thread what I think, and why I disagree with Beer.

Fighting Davion and Liao, at the same time, is utterly impossible for House Marik to do. It’s just not possible. You’re talking about a disparity of players which could never hope to win those kinds of engagements. Outside of one night, I’ve not had a night of full Ghost Drops. I’ve been fighting Capellans quite routinely. I wasn’t on last night, but other than that, I’ve been getting games for the most part. Attacking Davion is the height of foolishness, unless we’ve got Liao occupied.

So you wanna go attack Steiner? That’ll flop, or worse, let the clans roll Steiner. You wanna attack the DC? Well, we should open another front we couldn’t possibly commit forces to. They will roll over us. This is blunt honesty. I’m a pretty capable player, and drop commander, I’ll argue up and down what we should do, but once command’s given me my marching orders, I tend to take them. Command doesn’t want a four front war. This by the way is a four front war that Marik couldn’t win if its population doubled. This is talking about things which there are reasonable chances of success for.

If you want to fight a war against the entire Inner Sphere, you’ll get a player boost .A player boost of a few pugs, and little else. The FWL would disappear from the map before Phase 3. That’s why leadership isn’t interested in a four front war.

That’s why Liao isn’t interested in a two front war.

That’s why Davion is very uninterested in resuming a 3 front war. NAP’s are appearing, because factions don’t have the manpower to deal with concentrated assaults from other factions, which WILL happen. It’s not about whether we like it or not. I don’t think command wants to be wiped from the order of battle in the Inner Sphere, crushed between the LC, FS, and CC. Pulling a World War I Germany doesn’t help.

And if ALL the factions did this, that would mean that either Steiner, Davion, or MAYBE Kurita would win. We know this. We’re small, and we’re picking up guys right now, but we’re hardly there yet. I’m not leadership, I don’t make the deals, but this kind of thing, at least to me, is the reason why this doesn’t happen. If I’m wrong, it’d be because the lollipop king has determined that it shouldn’t happen, and as he carries his mighty candy-cane of justice, he determines who forms an NAP with whom.

[MovinTarget]

MischiefSC, on 13 January 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

I love these. It illustrates exactly what CW that pug/group queues are not. There absolutely are conversations and arguments in faction TS about where to move units and when, where to double-down and take a gamble and when to give something up for lost.

Losing on all fronts can set people back too. It frustrates people and can affect future performance. There is a significant tactical meta game in CW.

It's a big part of what makes CW fun and these sorts of posts but a clear picture on that. Thank you.

Total epiphany. Integrate TS further into MWO...

Have a unit level TS

Once in a group you have integrated ts in/out of game for just the group.

Leaders of CW groups can go to a special channel to devise/get specific directions. Unit leaders do not need to be in a group to be here and rabble rousers can be vote-booted if getting in the way.

Perhaps a diplomacy channel to communicate with *any* faction heads to work out alliance call bluffs, etc.

No more worrying about getting peeps onto the faction ts, it's just automatic.

Now please, everyone tell me how stupid my idea is and why b/c that's what usually happens lol.

[beerandasmoke]

stormeagle, on 14 January 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

I don’t really like to air dirty laundry in public, like openly denouncing the current policies of the House, or getting into arguments with people in open forum about this kind of stuff, but I’m just gonna be straight forward in the thread what I think, and why I disagree with Beer.

Fighting Davion and Liao, at the same time, is utterly impossible for House Marik to do. It’s just not possible. You’re talking about a disparity of players which could never hope to win those kinds of engagements. Outside of one night, I’ve not had a night of full Ghost Drops. I’ve been fighting Capellans quite routinely. I wasn’t on last night, but other than that, I’ve been getting games for the most part. Attacking Davion is the height of foolishness, unless we’ve got Liao occupied.

So you wanna go attack Steiner? That’ll flop, or worse, let the clans roll Steiner. You wanna attack the DC? Well, we should open another front we couldn’t possibly commit forces to. They will roll over us. This is blunt honesty. I’m a pretty capable player, and drop commander, I’ll argue up and down what we should do, but once command’s given me my marching orders, I tend to take them. Command doesn’t want a four front war. This by the way is a four front war that Marik couldn’t win if its population doubled. This is talking about things which there are reasonable chances of success for.

If you want to fight a war against the entire Inner Sphere, you’ll get a player boost .A player boost of a few pugs, and little else. The FWL would disappear from the map before Phase 3. That’s why leadership isn’t interested in a four front war.

That’s why Liao isn’t interested in a two front war.

That’s why Davion is very uninterested in resuming a 3 front war. NAP’s are appearing, because factions don’t have the manpower to deal with concentrated assaults from other factions, which WILL happen. It’s not about whether we like it or not. I don’t think command wants to be wiped from the order of battle in the Inner Sphere, crushed between the LC, FS, and CC. Pulling a World War I Germany doesn’t help.

And if ALL the factions did this, that would mean that either Steiner, Davion, or MAYBE Kurita would win. We know this. We’re small, and we’re picking up guys right now, but we’re hardly there yet. I’m not leadership, I don’t make the deals, but this kind of thing, at least to me, is the reason why this doesn’t happen. If I’m wrong, it’d be because the lollipop king has determined that it shouldn’t happen, and as he carries his mighty candy-cane of justice, he determines who forms an NAP with whom.

Lol Im not trying to start a flamewar. Im just questioning whether we need so many naps. In the second CW phase I took a tour of the states and clans picking up rewards and checking out the various hubs. The ones who had the most action on multiple fronts are also the busiest. They automatically attract players because they can get quick drops. If youve never dropped in the FRR hub you should give it a whirl. It is usually pretty packed during CW time with multiple groups dropping. Thats because mercs and solos can drop in and get quick action on multiple fronts with groups. The more action you have the more players you will attract. The hardwork of the loyalists and the benefit of having multiple hotfronts have made the FRR a success story and something we should look to maybe copy.

Im certainly not saying go to war with everyone if thats what you thought I meant. The northern states have hot and cold fronts as well. They figure out who they are going after but if the fronts cold that night FCs will drop on other factions just looking for fights. Thats what im proposing. Im not asking for a fullscale war against the Steiners, Dracs, or anyone else. But if an FC has trouble getting fights on a front he should have the option to roam across other fronts looking for fights.

Hope you didnt take it the wrong way since I just meant it as constructive criticism.

[MovinTarget]

I get what you are saying but that is kind of apples to oranges since our attack/Def options are so stagnant.

Does frr, steiner, and Kurita attack each other? Probably not much b/c they have *all* teh clanner fronts.

It's different.

It's exotic.

We have drops of 48 tbolts n Jagers vs 48 tbolts n jagers

Edited by MovinTarget, 14 January 2016 - 05:09 PM.

[beerandasmoke]

MovinTarget, on 14 January 2016 - 04:57 PM, said:

I get what you are saying but that is kind of apples to oranges since our attack/Def options are so stagnant.

Does frr, steiner, and Kurita attack each other? Probably not much b/c they have *all* teh clanner fronts.

It's different.

It's exotic.

We have drops of 48 tbolts n Jagers vs 48 tbolts n jagers

Actually yes they do when action is low. Thats one of the reasons I believe that Davion is the largest of the southern houses when it comes to players. A lot of people say its the lore but I dont think so. Its because you are at war with everyone constantly. Lots of action to be had with multiple fronts. Someones always dropping on you or vice versa. Thats what the average casual wants. Therefore they keep coming back for more. If you guys could actually take time to start training some of them and getting them on TS you would pose a much greater threat.

[BigRed40Tech]

Beer, it's totally because of the lore.

:\

[beerandasmoke]

stormeagle, on 14 January 2016 - 05:16 PM, said:

Beer, it's totally because of the lore.

:\

Lol thats some of it but what keeps them coming back? A faction has to have the room to expand. The way it expands is the number of fights it has in CW. Lets say for example we had 100 guys on TS looking to drop CW but because we choke ourselves to one front only 30 Liaos are dropping at the moment. That means 70 guys are standing around shooting pylons and omegas. Those guys arent going to come back after a couple of days of that.Now say you have multiple fronts with 80-100 enemies dropping you could keep all those guys busy. If you only have one front with 30 Liaos dropping everynight then your only going to be able to keep 30 guys fighting reliably. Theres no room for expanding the faction because theres no other fights to be had. Thats why I believe Davion is the biggest southern house. They can keep their players busy even if they are losing a lot.

[BigRed40Tech]

I don't think thats how its really happening, genuinely.

People are fighting against House Davion, and it was already the biggest house. People are more inclined to join a winning faction, than a losing one (barring mercs)

[MovinTarget]

I am pretty one of the reasons we get many of the new people is that we show up first in faction select.

Every.time.

Would curious how this would change if they randomized it.

[BigRed40Tech]

Referring to my argument, or Beer's?

[beerandasmoke]

MovinTarget, on 14 January 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

I am pretty one of the reasons we get many of the new people is that we show up first in faction select.

Every.time.

Would curious how this would change if they randomized it.

That could be some of it but why do they stay? What is it about Davion that keeps the pugs from migrating up north? I believe it is the action. The quick fights they can get in Davion compared to the other southern houses.

[BigRed40Tech]

The only result of overt aggression towards anyone, when you are glaringly the smallest house, is a complete collapse, as other factions punish you.

Like we are punishing Liao. Right now.

[beerandasmoke]

stormeagle, on 14 January 2016 - 05:33 PM, said:

I don't think thats how its really happening, genuinely.

People are fighting against House Davion, and it was already the biggest house. People are more inclined to join a winning faction, than a losing one (barring mercs)

Whats fascinating about it is Davion seems to have an almost inexhaustible supply of pugs. How many times have we set the pugzapper off storm and if a house unit doesnt come running within 5 minutes we got a full 12 of pugs. They just keep coming back for more no matter how much you beat them. Marik and Liao literally feed off of Davions supply of pugs. It cant just be the flag that keeps Davion pugs coming back. Im telling you guys its the action.

[BigRed40Tech]

You'll note though, Pugs actually make it easier to attack other planet's. They get discouraged, and then they drop out of the game. Pugs should be recruited and blah blah blah, we talk about this all the time. But this is not the point.

Davion's pug supply is heavily linked to the fact they're the main setting for most materials involving Mechwarrior and Battletech. Steiner gets some benefit from this as well. The fact that most of the lore is set around Davion as well, doesn't help.

People flock to what they know, and to winners.

[Asaru]

beerandasmoke, on 14 January 2016 - 05:47 PM, said:

Whats fascinating about it is Davion seems to have an almost inexhaustible supply of pugs. How many times have we set the pugzapper off storm and if a house unit doesnt come running within 5 minutes we got a full 12 of pugs. They just keep coming back for more no matter how much you beat them. Marik and Liao literally feed off of Davions supply of pugs. It cant just be the flag that keeps Davion pugs coming back. Im telling you guys its the action.

I'm sure the action helps but while you as a Marik player love the large amounts of easy kill pugs that jump on any planet that gets a call to arms its not really so awesome from our end. Multiple fronts will get you the action but if your not wining then its not really a positive.

Unless you have enough organized units to cover all those fronts then you really need to limit (if possible) how many are active at one time.