32 replies to this topic

[YourFavTransGirl]

Polar Highlands is a LRM fest, which is fine but there is hardly any cover.
Some fixes that would be nice would be either shrink the map a bit, or possibly add some cover in the center of the map.

What is the point of a giant empty map? there are outposts that you hardly ever use because everyone seems to migrate to the center.

-add buildings in the center
-add some trees, or any objects, maybe a frozen town in the middle it would add more play styles.
-shrink the map down because it just feels tedious walking for 3 minutes to get to center.

To be honest this map feels like Alpine peaks but leveled out with small hills...

Would love see some change on this map because it has potential but its way to empty

[Bud Crue]

OP, love your handle.

A couple of maps where LRMs are perhaps viable is not so bad. Bring AMS, stick close to the DDC or other ecm mech and you'll be fine (staying in the trenches helps too). I for one like Hoth WAY more than Alpine. On Hoth I can sneak around in the trenches and be useful even in a brawler. On Alpine, I feel like being stuck in a brawler is a death sentence, with or without LRMs as an issue.

Remember: Its all in the reflexes.

[Anunknownlurker]

Your experience does not match mine Jack, I have died to LRMs on Polar Highlands about as often as any other map and it's nearly always my fault. OK, I will admit, I have never played as an assault there (I very rarely play assaults) but I have had a lot of games in heavies, both with and without AMS.

Sometimes you run into an LRM heavy team and you just have to deal with it as best you can; just like the B2 spawn in Crimson Strait being over run by lights/fast mediums before the poor fatties have had a chance to react. What I mean is, every map has its own set of tactical issues to deal with. To be honest, I am much more frightened of gauss/ERPPC/ERLL snipers on Polar Highlands than LRMs; you even get a warning when you are about to get hit by missiles, first thing you know about dual gauss sniping is when your armour disappears.

TL:DR - Leave PH as it is, it's unique and we as players simply have to learn to play it.

[Alienized]

a thing i continuuosly see on polar highlands....

people run stupidly straight into the middle. well.
if u gotta be dumb you gotta be tough.


theres alot of cover on that map if u arent totally bad.
watch for UAV's, hidden ECM lights in the back, all that stuff that is needed in a team.

[Luscious Dan]

Scouting is OP.

But seriously, it's not a bad map. I've been caught in a bad spot when I take a slow brawler on that map (Black Widow with dual AC20 lol), but other times I've had great matches in that same mech when the team moves in a way I can keep up until we close distance with the enemy. Given the size of the map, anything under 70kph is at risk of abandonment due to nascar tactics, but communication helps alleviate that.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 03 February 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[Vlad Striker]

This is perfect map. Any buildings in center will make entire map useless.

[Mackensen]

There are several bases on this map providing cover. I can´t see the problem.

[Throe]

The problem with Polar Highlands' central flat area are caused by the fact that it is both central to the map, and void of decent cover. It doesn't pose any theoretical problem until one realizes that your typical pick-up player will want to take the most direct path toward the enemy(we only have 15 minutes, and we did click "Quick Play" to, you know, fight the enemy. On PH, that path takes that player directly through no-man's land. If the central area had more cover(like on Caustic Valley), or if it wasn't central to the map, like some of the outlying areas on Caustic Valley(which are similar in topography to PH's central area), it wouldn't be anywhere near as much of a problem.

That said, the only real problem is a lack of general player knowledge about the map. I'm sure competitive teams simply avoid the central area, and have no qualms about playing on PH.

[gloowa]

Throe, on 03 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

The problem with Polar Highlands' central flat area are caused by the fact that it is both central to the map, and void of decent cover. It doesn't pose any theoretical problem until one realizes that your typical pick-up player will want to take the most direct path toward the enemy(we only have 15 minutes, and we did click "Quick Play" to, you know, fight the enemy. On PH, that path takes that player directly through no-man's land. If the central area had more cover(like on Caustic Valley), or if it wasn't central to the map, like some of the outlying areas on Caustic Valley(which are similar in topography to PH's central area), it wouldn't be anywhere near as much of a problem.

That said, the only real problem is a lack of general player knowledge about the map. I'm sure competitive teams simply avoid the central area, and have no qualms about playing on PH.

I thought that we established that this is not a very good design? Therma, Alpine, Caustic all have that and they are 3 most repetitive and boring maps. It's always the same on those 3. On therma it's run to the center to win. On Alpine it's run to the center hill to win. On Caustic is run around the center to win.

Agreed on other points tho. Issue is not the map. The few times i managed to drop on that map i was in short-to-medium range mechs, and had no issue at all. Just avoid moving longer distances in open terrain, use the ravines to break los and try to cricle around rather then go straight for the enemy. Then whip out your majestic, long, throbbing AC10 barrel and shove it up the lermboat jumpjet exhaust port.

Edited by gloowa, 03 February 2016 - 03:00 PM.

[tokumboh]

Throe, on 03 February 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

The problem with Polar Highlands' central flat area are caused by the fact that it is both central to the map, and void of decent cover. It doesn't pose any theoretical problem until one realizes that your typical pick-up player will want to take the most direct path toward the enemy(we only have 15 minutes, and we did click "Quick Play" to, you know, fight the enemy. On PH, that path takes that player directly through no-man's land. If the central area had more cover(like on Caustic Valley), or if it wasn't central to the map, like some of the outlying areas on Caustic Valley(which are similar in topography to PH's central area), it wouldn't be anywhere near as much of a problem.

That said, the only real problem is a lack of general player knowledge about the map. I'm sure competitive teams simply avoid the central area, and have no qualms about playing on PH.

You've kind of answered the the issue, low user IQ players ignore everything for the kill the enemy rush, higher IQ players don't. I have seen low user IQ things on every map. The problem is with this map it is instant death to do low user IQ things whereas on others following a an assault doing a stupid push to death may create enough momentum for a win on PH you know unless push with good advantage you are going to crest a hill into lots of fire.

To be fair if you ask any military person movement to contact is the hardest thing to learn (especially without a firepower or maneuver advantage) and this map is all about movement to contact.

[Anunknownlurker]

@tokumboh - thanks for a phrase I've never heard but will now use: "movement to contact": that phrase sums up at least one reason why, for me, Polar is one of the better maps. You have many choices of where and how you make your "movement to contact"; choices which, by and large, are far more limited on other maps, either by design or by limited tactical thinking by the players.

[MarineTech]

Use the folds and trenches in the map to your advantage to break LRM locks. The Radar Deprivation module is your friend. When moving away from an enemy to break locks on LRMs, once out of their sight, move SIDEWAYS away from them. Just because you broke the target lock on those missiles, doesn't mean they just drop in the dirt. They keep moving on their original trajectory. If you back straight away from the launcher, they're still likely going to hit you. If you move laterally from your target after breaking line of sight you can watch that stream of missiles slide right on by you. It utterly amazes me how many people don't do this.

And remember, on that dark and stormy night when, the LRMs are flying and the dakka is crashing, and that enemy Atlas stomps up and bounces the cockpit of your favorite mech off the canyon wall and asks you "Have you paid your dues?" You just look that big old assault mech in the eye and you tell 'em what ole' MarineTech says at a time like that. "Have I paid my dues? Yes sir, check is in the mail."

[tokumboh]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 04 February 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

@tokumboh - thanks for a phrase I've never heard but will now use: "movement to contact": that phrase sums up at least one reason why, for me, Polar is one of the better maps. You have many choices of where and how you make your "movement to contact"; choices which, by and large, are far more limited on other maps, either by design or by limited tactical thinking by the players.

It is why many ex military do well with this game, it is actually a good military simulator since the physics is rather more realistic than most FPS for example what No Guts No Galaxy's Phil he goes under the name Sean Lang in game I believe he is an ex marine if you look at the decisions he makes it is clear on PH why people find it difficult. there used to be a set of manuals on the web about military training simple movement under cover, movement to minimise exposure bounding as pairs etc

[Omi_]

Jack BurTon is LOPAN, on 03 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Polar Highlands is a LRM fest, which is fine but there is hardly any cover.

When I was new to the game, I really thought by using LRMs and coordinating as a team, that this weapon system could be used to great effect to win games. Now, I hardly feel threatened by them, as getting hit by LRMs only causes minor scuffs before I can get into cover or better - push on the attacker or their spotter and kill someone. When I see a mech with LRMs, I usually write them off as "one less enemy to deal with", because that player can't contribute damage to hitting my components where it matters, once my armor has started slipping.

The thing about LRMs is that about ~26% of people dislike them, likely due to the same people falling routinely prey to them. This is supported by my earlier thread on the matter here:

http://mwomercs.com/...olar-highlands/

LRM boats will always only hit easy targets where they can most effectively make a return on their ammo. If you don't make yourself a good target for LRMs, they will literally never find you. If they think they can hit you and you know their shot is coming, you can waste a whole lot of their ammo by juking their lock.

Jack BurTon is LOPAN, on 03 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Some fixes that would be nice would be either shrink the map a bit, or possibly add some cover in the center of the map.

What is the point of a giant empty map? there are outposts that you hardly ever use because everyone seems to migrate to the center.

-add buildings in the center
-add some trees, or any objects, maybe a frozen town in the middle it would add more play styles.

To be blunt, this map is recognized for being the least likely to see both teams migrate towards the center, contrary to what you say. That is it's flavour, and your suggestions all seek to change this. Rather than try to change the map, I urge you to try to adapt your playstyle to "not converging on center asap".

Jack BurTon is LOPAN, on 03 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

-shrink the map down because it just feels tedious walking for 3 minutes to get to center.

I'm guessing this is why you're converging on center? I think it's fair to say that some people don't like walking for 3 minutes to get to a game. Personally, I like it because it allows some minutes for your team to move without your opponents knowing your movements - a part of the game I enjoy very much.

Jack BurTon is LOPAN, on 03 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

To be honest this map feels like Alpine peaks but leveled out with small hills...

Would love see some change on this map because it has potential but its way to empty

The hills offer more cover than you might think, and it takes very little travel time to find a trench and put it to use. You don't need a skyscraper to hide your mech.

[Duncan Aravain]

A deepening of SOME of the trenches by 15-20% would offer an improved playability, while maintaining the difference from Canyon and Alpine maps. If I run a light or medium, heck even most of my heavies, it's fine as it is already. However, some of my close fighting heavies and most of my assaults end up in the only cover trench i can find with every exit being an exposed area. Get spotted by an ECM light (TAG or not) and I won't survive for long since very little wall/cover to hug. Not asking for a huge remapping, just some tweaking on trench depth in some (10-20%) places. Buildings, boulders and map size are fine as is.

[MarineTech]

Deepening the trenches would make them harder to get out of for mechs without jumpjets.

[Nightshade24]

Jack BurTon is LOPAN, on 03 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Polar Highlands is a LRM fest, which is fine but there is hardly any cover.
Some fixes that would be nice would be either shrink the map a bit, or possibly add some cover in the center of the map.

What is the point of a giant empty map? there are outposts that you hardly ever use because everyone seems to migrate to the center.

-add buildings in the center
-add some trees, or any objects, maybe a frozen town in the middle it would add more play styles.
-shrink the map down because it just feels tedious walking for 3 minutes to get to center.

To be honest this map feels like Alpine peaks but leveled out with small hills...

Would love see some change on this map because it has potential but its way to empty

it can be avoidable, if you are in the trench, no line of sight. Thus they can't fire on you, If they got line of sight on you than kill the spotters or take better cover.
ECM can help a long way but if TAG/ NARC/ UAV/ BAP is at play than you can not complain it's a bad map- all you can say is that you got out played by the enemy team closely working to actively be a spotter and LRM support mech. You can't beat that from what I assume was your plan with your team to just deathball or try to flank.

There are times you have to admit that being very outplayed will just leave you in a state you can't do anything in return. you could do a heavy rush towards the LRM mechs and get in min range but that requires teamwork. 12 man team? no problem. pugs? You need to take the initiative. Because there is no difference between a spotter and LRM boat killing your team than to say a bunch of brawlers and juggernauts smashing your team in at close range from an ambush or what ever when it comes to who wins and who losses when the situations line up.
I personally have played in a brawler executioner and many closer range mechs on this map and had not many problems- and when we do it's when we are just flat out not in possition

[Kurbeks]

conquest needs redesign on this map.

[MechWarrior4023212]

The conquest spots are way too far apart. I played one match and never fired a shot as a light capping...

Jack BurTon is LOPAN, on 03 February 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Polar Highlands is a LRM fest, which is fine but there is hardly any cover.

Played another match with some of my unit, one had 80LRM boat and scored 14,000 xp (2x weekend) and over 6 kills. I was unable to close to 460m to fire my HBR 6 x ERML at them whilst locking them!

And some of them were fresh Assaults!

Edited by Ember Stormfield, 07 February 2016 - 12:24 AM.

[Danjo San]

great map... no balance needed!

You need to adapt your tactic to what fits your team to win. So stop complaining and take control of the team. Get on VOIP and issue clear and straightforward commands. Realise what loadout your team has and make use of it.