35 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

I was at first excited to see the Kodiak page up today, but after taking a closer look at the up-coming first hero mech the "Spirit Bear" I was disappointed to find that it was severely lacking in hardpoints with only 4 Missile, 2 Energy, and 1 Ballistic Hardpoints.

So far as I can tell, this puts the "Spirit Bear" in the same boat as the Highlander IICs, specifically the B variant. I can't really find more than 2 or 3 builds that will fill out the mechs immense pod-space and all of them seem a bit bland.

I've been talking to Russ on Twitter, asking him if he might consider giving the Spirit Bear one more ballistic hard-point in the right torso. I was wondering what the rest of you folks on the forum thought? Do you guys thing it should get another ballistic hardpoint?

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 03 February 2016 - 08:08 PM.

[grendeldog]

I'm guessing the lack of a second B hardpoint is intended to balance the fact that it can mount MASC? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just guessing at their reasoning (as an argument could be made that it needs a second ballistic hardpoint for those who choose to forego MASC - assuming MASC is not hardwired due to the battlemech instead of omnmech chassis).

[MechWarrior4023212]

I assume there will be a onmipod for 2!

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Ember Stormfield, on 03 February 2016 - 08:32 PM, said:

I assume there will be a onmipod for 2!

grendeldog, on 03 February 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

I'm guessing the lack of a second B hardpoint is intended to balance the fact that it can mount MASC? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just guessing at their reasoning (as an argument could be made that it needs a second ballistic hardpoint for those who choose to forego MASC - assuming MASC is not hardwired due to the battlemech instead of omnmech chassis).

MASC will be removable, and there won't be any omnipods since the Kodiak isn't an Omnimech.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 03 February 2016 - 08:34 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

grendeldog, on 03 February 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

I'm guessing the lack of a second B hardpoint is intended to balance the fact that it can mount MASC? I'm not saying that's right or wrong, just guessing at their reasoning (as an argument could be made that it needs a second ballistic hardpoint for those who choose to forego MASC - assuming MASC is not hardwired due to the battlemech instead of omnmech chassis).

I'd also guess that that's their reasoning, but as it is now, the mech won't be able to construct any focused builds. I don't hate mixed builds, but just like the bigger IIC mechs, it's looking like the Spirit Bear is going to be forced into running 3 way mixed builds, with no other options.

[grendeldog]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 03 February 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'd also guess that that's their reasoning, but as it is now, the mech won't be able to construct any focused builds. I don't hate mixed builds, but just like the bigger IIC mechs, it's looking like the Spirit Bear is going to be forced into running 3 way mixed builds, with no other options.

Absolutely, your point in your original post stands as valid as can be. I'm thinking that the 'design logic' was for a more mobile variant that could kill lights with the steaks and MASC. The problem is that nobody is going to try that kind of role warfare in a hundred ton assault mech. Ever.

That's just my guess from looking at the stock loadout as far as PGI's thought process, because I can't think of any other reason to have that hardpoint set (ignoring for the moment that said reasoning is itself totally out of whack).

Edited by grendeldog, 03 February 2016 - 08:50 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Well I guess I'm in the minority, oh well. I'll just stick to shredding through Spirit Bears with my
Kodiak 3 Battleship : p

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 03 February 2016 - 09:52 PM.

[Aleski]

I vote "Others".

I will put a second energy hardpoints in each arms. I think it will be good like this, the second ballistic hard point isn't an obligation to make it viable. The big ballistic clan guns are all good IMO (LB20x, UAC/20, Gauss), and they don't weight a lot.

LB20x + 4xASRM6 + 4xML or 4xSPL or 4xMPL oO that way you have a fun brawler.

Edited by Aleski, 04 February 2016 - 04:15 AM.

[Shirow]

i play IS, but the Kodiak with two ballistic hardpoints i know i will switch to Clan lol

[Omi_]

I voted "other", because while I can see where the op is coming from, I'm not sure if it's necessary.

Literally not sure. A single AC/20 sounds good to me, but I understand why this might not be enough hardpoints all around to support 44 tons of equipment with a good selection of builds.

[Widowmaker1981]

At the moment ive bought the 20$ pack because i think the KDK-3 will be streets better than all the other variants, including the Hero. If they were to add a second B port to the Hero id probably buy it, if not, no dice.

Sod UAC20 when other variants can run 2xUAC10 instead. Vastly better weapon.

[TheArisen]

One more ballistic would be good but an extra 2 energy would be better. Energy weapons would be more synergistic with missiles.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Widowmaker1981, on 04 February 2016 - 07:53 AM, said:

At the moment ive bought the 20$ pack because i think the KDK-3 will be streets better than all the other variants, including the Hero. If they were to add a second B port to the Hero id probably buy it, if not, no dice.

Sod UAC20 when other variants can run 2xUAC10 instead. Vastly better weapon.

I know can you imagine a Kodiak 3 with 2x UAC/10s, 2x UAC/5s, and 4x cERSL going 69.7 Kph?

[Nightshade24]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 03 February 2016 - 08:37 PM, said:

I'd also guess that that's their reasoning, but as it is now, the mech won't be able to construct any focused builds. I don't hate mixed builds, but just like the bigger IIC mechs, it's looking like the Spirit Bear is going to be forced into running 3 way mixed builds, with no other options.

What's wrong with 4 LRM 15's and Large pulse lasers? Quite drastically different from the brawler laser + uac + srm's.

[Omi_]

Looking back at that poll...

Quote

I'd purchase it immediately if it had 2 ballistic hardpoints

...is irrelevant as to whether this is a good design choice for the mech. To illustrate, you could rename that option to "This would overbuff the mech" and some peoples' votes wouldn't migrate.

[Firewuff]

Lets see what is possible first. From the specs it will be a beast of a mech regardless

[Peiper]

Just allow the Spirit Bear camo pattern on the (s) variant if you buy both. That will increase sales to buy both. They both give C-Bill boost, both have the same mech parts/architecture, and I'm sure they just have to unlock the pattern to make it work. Then you've got two options for spirit bear camo-looking mechs, which I think we all want.

Russ is afraid that MASC will turn the SB into a monster, and with 4 x SRM6's and LBX20, it will be a fast monster, so he probably won't change the hard points. But how many want him to change the hard points because they don't like them AND they want to play with such a cool LOOKING mech? I expect that's most of us.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Nightshade24, on 04 February 2016 - 09:04 PM, said:

What's wrong with 4 LRM 15's and Large pulse lasers? Quite drastically different from the brawler laser + uac + srm's.

What's wrong is there's nothing else you can build besides a LRM boat, or the UAC, SRM, LPL brawler.

Hornsby, on 05 February 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Looking back at that poll...

...is irrelevant as to whether this is a good design choice for the mech. To illustrate, you could rename that option to "This would overbuff the mech" and some peoples' votes wouldn't migrate.

I don't think this mech is in any danger of becoming overpowered by giving it another ballistic hardpoint. As it currently is I'd consider it to a relatively unthreatening Assault mech, especially compared to something like its cousin, the Kodiak 3. Does giving it MASC really mean we have to gimp it's weapon choices?

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Peiper, on 05 February 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Just allow the Spirit Bear camo pattern on the (s) variant if you buy both. That will increase sales to buy both. They both give C-Bill boost, both have the same mech parts/architecture, and I'm sure they just have to unlock the pattern to make it work. Then you've got two options for spirit bear camo-looking mechs, which I think we all want.

Russ is afraid that MASC will turn the SB into a monster, and with 4 x SRM6's and LBX20, it will be a fast monster, so he probably won't change the hard points. But how many want him to change the hard points because they don't like them AND they want to play with such a cool LOOKING mech? I expect that's most of us.

Yeah, I just don't think Russ realizes that clan SRM6s are fairly poor weapons to use against anything other than other assaults and slow heavies. Their spread is just a little to high, so giving the mech 4 missile hardpoints doesn't suddenly qualify it as a death machine. If that were the case, you'd see more Splat-Hawks.

The LBX-20 has a similar problem in that it quickly becomes useless past a certain, very short, range. a 96 kph sprint will make such a weapon more usable, but it still won't be near as optimal as he's imagining.

I just want to pilot one clan MASC mech that doesn't have it's loadout potential gimped, just one. But the EXE has bad pod space, and the Shadowcat doesn't have enough hardpoints for low weight weapons. Now the Kodiak will have only a grand total of 3 Energy/Ballistic Hardpoints.

Don't really care for the camo, I'd rather just go to town on decals when they come out.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 07 February 2016 - 12:34 PM.

[Nightshade24]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 07 February 2016 - 12:19 PM, said:

What's wrong is there's nothing else you can build besides a LRM boat, or the UAC, SRM, LPL brawler.



I don't think this mech is in any danger of becoming overpowered by giving it another ballistic hardpoint. As it currently is I'd consider it to a relatively unthreatening Assault mech, especially compared to something like its cousin, the Kodiak 3. Does giving it MASC really mean we have to gimp it's weapon choices?

twin ER PPC, Gauss rifle, and some smaller LRM's?
To be quite frank. The way you posted it was rather short and stuborn about it.

You listed 4 main builds that is quite different to each other and ignored the inbetween (Skirmisher [some LRM's, some large lasers, a UAC perhaps, and a CT SRM 6?] for eg). Which is rather funny as many mechs in game can only do 1 thing or two and they even struggle at that.
Catapults on THREE variants are LRM boats [atm, SRM boating doesn't appeal due to no reduction of huge ears, may change soon]
The k2 that is half decent only has twin AC 10 / UAC 5 build or twin PPC [give or take lighter support weapons]
The Mad Dog is predominantly a LRM boat with some good SRM potential.
The Atlas is predominantly a Juggernaut [battle tech into english, Juggernaut is assault mech that's slow nad nearly 100% focuses on close range combat and has high Armour, ie the stock atlas, kingcrab, et]
The Direwolf is mostly a long range 'sniper' mech with small potential for juggernauting.
nearly all light mechs are scouts/ spotters or harassers with like 5 exceptions of snipers
etc....

And so far SB shows great potential for being an LRM boat, SRM brawler, Skirmisher, Brawler [generic], or Juggernaut. With builds leaning heavily on it's singular ballistic or it's missiles with all having small energy support.
Not sure about you but overall I would be scared if I run into a kodiak at close range especially the SB. I think a reanactment of the MW2 Ghost bear intro would occur... just replace the JJing for MASC and boom.