Jump to content

Why Clans Should Be Able To Fire 3 Of Any Large Class Laser At Once.


265 replies to this topic

#1 Gyrok

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Star Colonel III
  • Star Colonel III
  • 5,879 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:30 PM

3x IS LPL = 33 dam/21 heat = 4.925 dam/tick

3x C LPL = 39 dam/30 heat = 3.545 dam/tick

3x IS LL = 27 dam/18 heat = 3.0 dam/tick

3x IS ERLL = 27 dam/24 heat = 2.16 dam/tick

3x C ERLL = 33 dam/30 heat = 2.2 dam/tick

Now, I ask the lot of you...does any of those look out of line fired 3 at a time?

The CLPL is much closer to the IS LL than the IS LPL.

The CERLL and IS ERLL are almost equal at 3 each.

Meanwhile...though I did not post about it specifically, doing this math brought the LPL to my attention. Does that not seem a bit out of line comparatively in terms of balance against the rest of the Large class lasers?

#2 xXBagheeraXx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,707 posts

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:33 PM

I will say a triple ERLL/gauss whale is going to absolutely wreck....

cause thats what im using if they go +3 on clan LLs. all my weapons would be in synergy and my effective range goes out to 700+ with the equipment it has...with 23 doubles and a much smaller heatspike than it has ATM with 2 gauss, 2 larges and 4 mediums.

#3 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:34 PM

Bad thread is bad, but what can I expect from Gyrok?

2 CLPLs = 12 tons. 3 IS LLs/ERLLs = 15 tons. 3 IS LPLs = 21 tons.

CLPL range = 600 meters. LL= 450 meters, IS LPL = 365 meters. ERLL = 675 meters, but has less DPS and DPH, and has longer duration than CLPLs.

Not to mention, shortening the already short TTK is just a NO NO. You have better luck asking PGI to make IS to be able to fire only 2 Large class lasers.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 February 2016 - 09:05 PM.


#4 FupDup

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 26,888 posts
  • LocationThe Keeper of Memes

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:34 PM

You can maybe argue it for the CERLL, but for the Clan LPL the answer is a big fat LOLNO with a roflcopter on top.

At this point, though, I'd rather just nudge down the duration on the CERLL and leave its Paranormal Heat limit as-is.

#5 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:37 PM

On the other hand:

3x IS LPL = 365 m @ 21 tons
3x C-LPL = 600 m @ 18 tons
3x IS LL = 450 m @ 15 tons
3x ERLL = 675 m @ 15 tons
3x C-ERLL = 740 m @ 12 tons

So...the C-LPL is just as out-of-whack here as the IS LPL, arguably more so because it has such a huge range and better dam/tick than all of them except the IS LPL.

So, while I think the C-ERLL should be able to fire three at a time, I hesitate to afford the same courtesy to the C-LPL because that gun is already stupid powerful. Gotta keep perspective here.

Mind you, I also think quirks giving IS LPL mega range is similarly crappy. Way too much reach for a front-loaded, cold-running, hit-scan, 7-ton scrub-blaster.

Edit: ninja'd by El Bandito.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 03 February 2016 - 08:38 PM.


#6 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,244 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:40 PM

I'm fine with it.

But this community can't handle high alphas at long range so.... good luck. Also, Russ is pushing brawling lately so I wouldn't get my hopes up unfortunately.

View PostxXBagheeraXx, on 03 February 2016 - 08:33 PM, said:

I will say a triple ERLL/gauss whale is going to absolutely wreck....

cause thats what im using if they go +3 on clan LLs. all my weapons would be in synergy and my effective range goes out to 700+ with the equipment it has...with 23 doubles and a much smaller heatspike than it has ATM with 2 gauss, 2 larges and 4 mediums.


You can run that build now and alpha a few times, heat typically isn't the limiter, being a slow whale out in the open to shoot is the problem.

#7 Y E O N N E

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Nimble
  • The Nimble
  • 16,810 posts

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:42 PM

High alphas at long-range aren't the problem.

High alphas at long-range with high DPS and a low skill floor are the problem.

#8 Mystere

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 22,783 posts
  • LocationClassified

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:42 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 03 February 2016 - 08:40 PM, said:

Also, Russ is pushing brawling lately so I wouldn't get my hopes up unfortunately.


Did a loud bunch of whiny brawlers start a new campaign? Whining is usually what drives PGI to makes changes. Posted Image

#9 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,244 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:47 PM

View PostMystere, on 03 February 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:


Did a loud bunch of whiny brawlers start a new campaign? Whining is usually what drives PGI to makes changes. Posted Image


People have been complaining about long range weapons for a long time.

View PostYeonne Greene, on 03 February 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

High alphas at long-range aren't the problem.

High alphas at long-range with high DPS and a low skill floor are the problem.


Are you referring to lasers when you say low skill floor?

#10 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:51 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 03 February 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

Are you referring to lasers when you say low skill floor?


Most likely. Lasers have very low skill floor thanks to being hitscan with pin point accuracy. All other weapons, such as PPCs, ACs, and LRMs have issue in long range fights. Which is why Clanners are crying about IS laser range quirks and having PGI to nerf em--it is simply too easy to deal damage with lasers from long range, without much skill involved.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 February 2016 - 08:56 PM.


#11 xXBagheeraXx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 1,707 posts

Posted 03 February 2016 - 08:52 PM

I like ranged fights and even I don't mind a move towards more brawling.

#12 Gyrok

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Star Colonel III
  • Star Colonel III
  • 5,879 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:04 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 03 February 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

Bad thread is bad, but what can I expect from Gyrok?

2 CLPLs = 12 tons. 3 IS LLs/ERLLs = 15 tons. 3 IS LPLs = 21 tons.

CLPL range = 600 meters. LL= 450 meters, IS LPL = 365 meters. ERLL = 675 meters, but has less DPS and DPH, and has longer duration than CLPLs.

Not to mention, shortening the already short TTK is just a NO NO.


3x CLPL is 18 tons...thanks for playing.

#13 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,244 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:05 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 03 February 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:


Most likely. Lasers have very low skill floor thanks to being hitscan with pin point accuracy. All other weapons, such as PPCs, ACs, and LRMs have issue in long range fights. Which is why Clanners are crying about IS laser range quirks and having PGI to nerf em--it is simply too easy to deal damage with lasers from long range, without much skill involved.


I suppose, with the caveat that it isn't trivial holding lasers on a specific component for a second if the target isn't standing still like a scrub.

#14 El Bandito

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 26,736 posts
  • LocationStill doing ungodly amount of damage, but with more accuracy.

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:07 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 03 February 2016 - 09:05 PM, said:

I suppose, with the caveat that it isn't trivial holding lasers on a specific component for a second if the target isn't standing still like a scrub.


That is in the realm of skill ceiling, not skill floor. Besides, most IS Heavies and Assaults move relatively slowly. It is very easy to single out a component and keep the lasers there. Clan Heavies and Assaults are slightly trickier due to faster speed, with the exception of the Whale. Still, with or without practice, lasers are current king of the battlefield. No need to push the powercreep even further by allowing the Clans to alpha 3 Large class lasers. Ask PGI to reduce IS alpha instead.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 February 2016 - 09:12 PM.


#15 Khobai

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Elite Founder
  • Elite Founder
  • 23,969 posts

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:11 PM

looking at damage per tick alone is the wrong way of looking at it anyway

theres way more factors than how much damage per tick they do.

LPL having a 600m range for example is a factor of why you should never be allowed to fire 3 at a time.

Edited by Khobai, 03 February 2016 - 09:12 PM.


#16 Gyrok

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Star Colonel III
  • Star Colonel III
  • 5,879 posts
  • Twitch: Link
  • LocationPeriphery of the Inner Sphere, moving toward the core worlds with each passing day.

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:24 PM

View PostKhobai, on 03 February 2016 - 09:11 PM, said:

looking at damage per tick alone is the wrong way of looking at it anyway

theres way more factors than how much damage per tick they do.

LPL having a 600m range for example is a factor of why you should never be allowed to fire 3 at a time.


Some mechs with quirks have IS LPLs that reach 500m effective range.

Is that at all reasonable firing 3 at once?

Edited by Gyrok, 03 February 2016 - 09:24 PM.


#17 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,244 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:37 PM

View PostGyrok, on 03 February 2016 - 09:24 PM, said:


Some mechs with quirks have IS LPLs that reach 500m effective range.

Is that at all reasonable firing 3 at once?


Well, those quirks are going to be gone in 2 weeks, don't worry Posted Image

They will be down to 438m effective, which gives cLPLs a 222m range advantage, roughly a 50% advantage over the IS version.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 03 February 2016 - 09:39 PM.


#18 Pjwned

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Little Helper
  • 4,731 posts
  • LocationDancing on the grave of Energy Draw LOL

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:39 PM

View PostGyrok, on 03 February 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

3x IS LPL = 33 dam/21 heat = 4.925 dam/tick

3x C LPL = 39 dam/30 heat = 3.545 dam/tick

3x IS LL = 27 dam/18 heat = 3.0 dam/tick

3x IS ERLL = 27 dam/24 heat = 2.16 dam/tick

3x C ERLL = 33 dam/30 heat = 2.2 dam/tick

Now, I ask the lot of you...does any of those look out of line fired 3 at a time?

The CLPL is much closer to the IS LL than the IS LPL.

The CERLL and IS ERLL are almost equal at 3 each.

Meanwhile...though I did not post about it specifically, doing this math brought the LPL to my attention. Does that not seem a bit out of line comparatively in terms of balance against the rest of the Large class lasers?


I may not necessarily disagree with your topic, but if this is your only reasoning then it's not good enough because you leave out other factors to consider, namely the range on each of those lasers but also tonnage and crit slots and (strangely enough) laser duration as well.

Need something more substantive.

The exceptional damage per tick on 3 IS LPL fired at once (assuming it's accurate) is noted though.

Edited by Pjwned, 03 February 2016 - 10:45 PM.


#19 Ultimax

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 6,979 posts

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:50 PM

View PostGyrok, on 03 February 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

3x IS LPL = 33 dam/21 heat = 4.925 dam/tick

3x C LPL = 39 dam/30 heat = 3.545 dam/tick

3x IS LL = 27 dam/18 heat = 3.0 dam/tick

3x IS ERLL = 27 dam/24 heat = 2.16 dam/tick

3x C ERLL = 33 dam/30 heat = 2.2 dam/tick

Now, I ask the lot of you...does any of those look out of line fired 3 at a time?

The CLPL is much closer to the IS LL than the IS LPL.

The CERLL and IS ERLL are almost equal at 3 each.

Meanwhile...though I did not post about it specifically, doing this math brought the LPL to my attention. Does that not seem a bit out of line comparatively in terms of balance against the rest of the Large class lasers?



You've ignored tonnage.


Your 3x CLPLs would do more damage, for less heat, at significantly longer range than 4x LLAS - and after the upcoming quirk reduction it will always outrange them, out damage them, for less heat and for overall minimal burn time increase.


The CERLL and IS ERLL are not almost equal, because once again - tonnage.
The only thing I want to see happen here is CERLLAS burn time come down to 1.3 because 1.5 is just too long and then correspondingly ERLLAS would come down from 1.25 to like 1.15s or 1.1s.



The IS LPL is unique for sure, with ranged quirks its one of the best IS lasers - without ranged quirks it is arguably worse than just 2x CMPLs for 3 less tons. (4x CMPLs are not that far off from unquirked 3x LPLs except for 8 tons instead of an enormous 21 tons)



If Clan Targeting computers add range, I think we will see a fair bit of CMPL boating - even right now you can hit like 380m if you went nuts with a big Targeting comp - but that's not worth it...yet.

Edited by Ultimax, 03 February 2016 - 09:53 PM.


#20 Monkey Lover

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 7,918 posts
  • LocationWazan

Posted 03 February 2016 - 09:58 PM

I would have supported this over the blanket IS range nerf but not now.





1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users