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Best Heavy Lrm Mech(S)?


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#41 epikt

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 05:46 PM

View PostIraqiWalker, on 08 February 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

What's the point of me exposing myself to get shot, when half my mech is combustible ammo?

Because you have armor, a lot of armor.
It's not enough to share the damage dealing, you must also share the damage tanking, be part of the fire line, offer as many targets as possible to the opponents and spread the damage over all mechs in the team. If you don't, you're just helping the enemy to focus fire.

#42 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 06:26 PM

View Postepikt, on 08 February 2016 - 05:46 PM, said:

Because you have armor, a lot of armor.
It's not enough to share the damage dealing, you must also share the damage tanking,



The concept of helping sink enemy damages is predicated on quite a few presumptions on your own team and on the other.
It is strongly supported by "death ball" and similar tactics, but not so much by others.

#43 Katus

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:11 PM

View Postepikt, on 08 February 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

And they're right.
On a Mauler-1R you can mount 4 UAC/5s with a 15% cooldown quirk, it is a freaking monster expected to be on the front line. (but, well, with 20% cooldown quirk at least it's probably the less worst assault LRM boat)

Also, from what I can deduct from your post, your build is ridiculous. 2790 rounds makes no sense at all (except maybe in CW, I don't play CW) and if you say "a pair of med lasers" I understand you have no TAG. An LRM boat without a TAG is a bad build, period.
Lower the ammo count, boost up the engine and cooling.

In my opinion there is only one legitimate assault LRM-boat: the Awesome-8R. 10 tons lighter, -30% cooldown and -15% heat gen. And since LRM is the only reasonable build on the mech there is no confusion possible. If you want to be the best lurmer you can, please try this mech (like this, or like this).

MAL-1R

I am not sure we are talking about the same Mal-1R with the LRM 15 cool down module it has a cooldown of 32% opposed to the 15% for ACs. It also features a -15% heat generation and a 10% velocity buff. Being that the MAL is 10 tons heavier then the the AWS-8R has nearly the same launch rate with modules installed and has the +10% missile velocity buff that makes the MAL the better platform IMO.

Use of TAG and BAP. I used to LOVE BAP and had it on anything that mounted a LRM. Now that ECM is only 90m though it is not nearly as important and once an enemy 'Mech passes beyond the 180m mark he's going to get a buncha face fulls of Lurms for his trouble unless he gets under cover FAST.

TAG. TAG is fun especially when some ECMer is sniping me and I don't have cover handy, rare occurrence but it happens. One of the few shortcomings IMO of the MAL-1R is the lack of energy hard points and if it had a third or fourth energy hard point then I would drop a ton of ammo for a TAG just for the fun factor. However, since the MAL-1R only has the two E hard points I will stick with what I have.

Adding heat sinks? The only 'Mech I have that has zero heat problems is my KGC-000L with 4 UAC-5s, I can stand in a pool of lava and alpha all day with no heat issues. Problem for me is that even if my target is standing still most times my ping is so bad that I don't get much hit registry. So ya, I could use more heats sinks then the 20 doubles that comes with the engine and its 1.2/2 cooling rate. Problem there is that I have only one slot open and a double uses three slots. Drop a ton of ammo, still short a slot, no go.

It comes down to heat management. The first 30 seconds of my attack cycle I will fire as fast as I can if I am sure of the lock. Each of my 4 LRM 15s launches every .5 seconds with an extra .5 second after the 4 have fired before I can start the cycle again. After that 30 seconds of rage and destruction I have to slow down to one launch per 1.5 seconds to maintain my heat at 95% or 3 seconds if I want to cool off for another 30 seconds of rage. Or, as I do most times I will simply stop firing, cool off while looking for another team mate that is in trouble and look for someone else to peel.

Depending on the range I can have 20 or more salvos in the air at the SAME TIME. What that does to a KGC, DWF or any 'Mech with a wide top is amazing. That kind of fire tends to shake enemy pilots a bit and make them look for cover rather then shoot at more important targets like the Brawlers. Defending the Brawlers is the reason I exist on the battlefield. Peeling the armor off of the red team and destroying their ability deal damage is defending the Brawlers.

Bigger engine? Nope. A few tons of engine on a 'Mech that tops out at 52.2 is not enough of a boost to make it worth my while. XL? Are you frigging kidding me?!? No way in heck will I put an XL in an Assault let alone a heavy unless it comes from the factory that way and even then I tend to pull them and slap a standard in. The six extra slots and instakill when you lose a side torso drops survivablity way below what I consider acceptable.

Ammo. Ah Ammo. There is no such thing as too much ammo especially since I refuse to use ACs on this 'Mech when I can use the 32% LRM 15 cool down and since I don't want to drop 8 tons of ammo to fit a pair of Lg Lasers. I considered med pls lasers and again discarded the idea since a Lurm boat with no ammo is no Lurm boat at all and I happened to have a bunch of med lasers in inventory. Since I carry such ridiculous amounts of ammo (Ya, even I laugh about how much explody ammo I tote about the battlefield) I tend to try low probability shots and I have ZERO issue with dumb fire salvos on choke points to keep the red team from rushing the doors. This works GOOD on Mt Doom in Mordor, I keep fire on the door and only the really brave or really stupid will rush it, then the rest of the team focuses him down.

Dumb Fire. I am getting pretty good at that. It is FUNNY to watch some guy sniping at my team mates sitting there all fat, dumb and happy thinking he's safe under his ECM blasting away when four LRM 15 salvos land on his head. Sometimes I will stick around looking at him just to see him freak out and run for cover. Gives me the giggles it does..

Amazingly enough I almost never die from an ammo explosions even with all that ammo that you seem to feel is so ridiculous. Also I rarely run out of ammo, in fact I have only done that twice in 108 matches both times I pulled ~1800 damage which is not bad at all. I HATE HATE HATE running out of ammo.

So, in conclusion, I have to disagree with nearly every point you make Epikt though I would be the first to admit that your methods and builds likely work very well for you. I used to own the AWS-8R you mentioned, I sold it off after I leveled it so I could level my Pretty Baby to free up a 'Mech bay. That however was WAY before quirks were added to the game and I have had other things to spend my Cbills on. Perhaps I will give the AWS another look after they run some decently fast internet out to my particular corner of the boonies and I don't have ping rates that look very much like the page count on a GoT novel.

#44 Clownwarlord

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 08:31 PM

Hmm a good heavy lrm mech. Not the Catapult A1or 1A whatever it is. The reason why is because to combo short and long missiles together is difficult to cope with heat. Because if you put 2 LRM 10s and then 4 SRM 4s or 4 SRM 6s you get some massive heat with the SRMs. One suggestion is a troll build of 4 Streaks and 2 LRM 15s which isn't bad but then you only have 8 missiles for close range which at many of times is not enough.

Now a better one would be the catapult with 4 mediums and 2 LRM big packs. That way you have a better direct pin point for close range and then still plenty of tonnage and space for big lrms and plenty of ammo.

other suggestions would be look at the Orions I have heard that some of them make good lrm boats. A lot of the clan heavies, the Jag A, one of the thunderbolts does make a decent lrm boat as well with 2 missile pods, a warhammer, and a marauder also have some alright missilt pod locations.

In truth if you can fit 2 big lrm packs and some close range weapons on it. Then you can make a decent lrm boat out of it.

#45 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 02:10 AM

hmmm. just cracked over 700dmg a couple times with my worthless 4 LRM15 Mauler (no tag laser). Not my best showing, but highest dmg in both matches, so I cant complain.


http://images.akamai...31F057C545A292/

http://images.akamai...F5A5610D025548/

Caustic and Tourmaline, might have been better on a cooler map. The best part was another meta dork telling me how bad my build was and LRMs are especially useless on tourmaline and metamechs this that and the other...

Surely once I crack tier 1 I will never be able to LURM again right? At least not without a tag laser! Posted Image


(fixed a link)

Edited by Boogie138, 09 February 2016 - 02:11 AM.


#46 S 0 L E N Y A

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 02:14 AM

View Postclownwarlord, on 08 February 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:


other suggestions would be look at the Orions I have heard that some of them make good lrm boats.


yeah, a couple of em do. I dont recall the exact variant, but IIRC it has 4 missile hardpoints and 20% cool down quirks.

#47 epikt

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 02:44 AM

View PostBoogie138, on 08 February 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:

The concept of helping sink enemy damages is predicated on quite a few presumptions on your own team and on the other.
It is strongly supported by "death ball" and similar tactics, but not so much by others.

It's supported by all tactics.
For example if you're in a trade game and only half your team is trading damage, you will lose.

View PostKatus, on 08 February 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

MAL-1R
I am not sure we are talking about the same Mal-1R with the LRM 15 cool down module it has a cooldown of 32% opposed to the 15% for ACs.

We are talking about the same Mauler (actually the builds I theoricrafted from your post were better than yours).
When you're comparing cooldowns, please compare equivalent figures: 15% is the raw quirk for ACs while 32% is the cooldown bonus for quirk + module. You're just being dishonest. So back to raw quirk numbers: the Mauler has -20% cooldown.
While the Awesome has -30%.
(and, contrary to what you say, also has +10% velocity)

Quote

Ammo. Ah Ammo. There is no such thing as too much ammo

There is such thing as too much ammo when there is no reasonable way to use them all. Extra ammo is basically dead weight that could be used for more mobility/cooling/weapons.

Edited by epikt, 09 February 2016 - 02:47 AM.


#48 Rushin Roulette

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:04 AM

View PostBoogie138, on 08 February 2016 - 06:26 PM, said:



The concept of helping sink enemy damages is predicated on quite a few presumptions on your own team and on the other.
It is strongly supported by "death ball" and similar tactics, but not so much by others.


Actually it isnt. Even if the damage from one single enemy mech is diverted from the primary target to yourself, this will allow the primary target to live a few critical seconds longer. If the primary target is alive for a few seconds longer, then you can deal more damage before it is your turn to take the brunt of the main incoming fire. If your team focuses damage in a shorter period better than the other team you have basically already won that match (There will of course be unlucky/lucky circumstances such as headshots and ammo criticals, but all in all the calculation is in favour of the team that can spread out damage and focus better).

In the end, every damage diverted is a bonus for your team, this is easier if the enemy has more targets to choose from. It is baby easy to focus one Hellbringer if that is the only target. it is hard to focus that one hellbringer if 11 other mechs are infront, next to and directly behind him moving in plain view (it is even harder if all 12 mechs infront of you are all Hellbringers, but that is something for coordinated team tactics and not random play).

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 09 February 2016 - 03:07 AM.


#49 Audacious Aubergine

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:34 AM

Maybe a touch early since I don't think it's out for MC or c-bills yet, but the Orion IIC works horrendously well with large LRM launchers, I've found. I have one of them with 4 c-LRM15 and it was fairly smooth getting it basic'd up (at least in T5)

#50 DavidStarr

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 03:50 AM

AWS-8R does indeed have higher LRM-15 damage output than Mauler. But Mauler seems more versatile to me in terms of the other things it can be built for. I'd say it;s a better mech line overall to own and use.

Edited by DavidStarr, 09 February 2016 - 03:50 AM.


#51 IraqiWalker

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Posted 09 February 2016 - 04:36 AM

View PostBoogie138, on 09 February 2016 - 02:14 AM, said:


yeah, a couple of em do. I dont recall the exact variant, but IIRC it has 4 missile hardpoints and 20% cool down quirks.

The ON1-VA

#52 Squiggy McPew

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Posted 27 October 2016 - 01:36 PM

A bit of a bump but I've gotten back into mwo pubs somewhat and this was my favorite heavy lurm spammer. All skills unlocked with lrm range and cooldown along with radar deprivation, adv sensors and target delay and adv uav/airstrike. Scoots along at almost 70kph so it can flex with the fast movers and can either toss 40 point tight artemis salvos or imitate the clanner stream of lurms with ripple fire. Well armoured all around but the xl engine makes it vulnerable to crits but eh you shouldn't be getting shot at anyways and the armour is more for those annoying lights that everyone ignores which invariably makes a beeline for you.

CPLT-A1(C) Lurm Spammer

I also like the awesome for a lurm spammer with an lrm15 fit but it really is a waste of an assault in pub play due to so many maps being lrm unfriendly.

#53 LMP

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 06:59 AM

I did a little variation on the OP’s Ebon Jaguar.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...f023a63d7f47e31

#54 Koniving

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Posted 28 October 2016 - 09:36 AM

I'm particularly favoring the Archer right now, and that was before I learned of its quirks.

#55 Blind Baku

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 01:10 PM

View PostBoogie138, on 09 February 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

hmmm. just cracked over 700dmg a couple times with my worthless 4 LRM15 Mauler (no tag laser). Not my best showing, but highest dmg in both matches, so I cant complain.


Got to high 600's with my 2LRM5 1ML MLX.

Snipping large rant down, if you must LRM, go with something mobile. Tag and Artemis require LoS... or "Get your own locks". I get that "You should never XL a not light mech", but that maxim is umm... wrong. Find a mech that you can get good speed out of and has the appropriate number of hardpoints/quirks for cooldown, spread, velocity, and build from there. (I'd say Catapults or even some of the Quickdraws, but my favorite LRM mech is a Shadowcat... so yeah)

#56 TooDumbToQuit

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Posted 01 November 2016 - 03:32 PM

there is a new king of heavy lrm boats. the stalker-L. i bought the warhammer package just to get it.

i had my wrist surgery today but i leveled it very fast.

#57 Temu

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Posted 02 November 2016 - 02:28 AM

i know it's not a hvy, but since the mauler and stalker in the mix.. Atlas was one of my best LRM boats, but for me it was more a dual build. 3 LRM 15's and the AC 20 (with 2-4 ML/MPL depending on model) was able to throw out the LRM's at targets if sniping going on or when trying to get to the fight... use the LRM's when the group was too clustered to get a safe shot through the friendlies, or use the AC20 when someone tries to rush under the LRM min. range or when the LRM ammo runs out... but i'm not expert... i just know it worked well and was one of the only setups that i hit 1k dmg on more then one occasion.(early tier of course)





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