98 replies to this topic

[Saskia]

I have lead groups for years now and they are getting worse and worse because the developers cannot seem to agree on how to form a group. So I have decided to start a petition to get the change that needs to be enforced; FREEDOM OF CHOICE.

No more weight restrictions for groups!!!

There have been multiple fights over who gets to take what mech and people don't want to play anymore because of it.
It is utterly stupid and we have had enough!!!

There is no point to weight restrictions, so please just leave a note to say you agree and lets get this seen and sorted!

We deserve the FREEDOM OF CHOICE in taking whichever Mech we want to use in a group.

Please sign your name in agreement below.

[H I A S]

+1
Fun fact: Yesterday we dropped with a 4 man group and bring 3 Atlas. In our Team we end up with 4 Atlas 3 Mauler 1 Direwolf and a Battlemaster against a 12 men.
lolgg

Edited by arivio, 07 February 2016 - 01:02 AM.

[AssaultPig]

does your whole group only drive assaults or something

diversify yo mechbonds

[Pjwned]

I agree with this because when you sign up for the group queue you should be ready to face whatever the enemy team decides to bring.

If tonnage disparity is such a problem then just don't match teams that are 300 tons apart or something stupid like that, that's really all that is needed instead of the ridiculous weight restrictions placed on groups by default.

[DohItAgain]

I can't wait to see 12 assault vs. 12 assault games; every game.

[sikakraa]

Agree. The weight restrictions... at least in their current implementation do force people to play mechs they don't really want to play and some of the group sizes are really bad for most games.

[Monkey Lover]

Large groups just need a tonnage bonus for lower tier players. If you have 4 new people on your team you shouldn't have to fight off 8 assaults in medium mechs.

[adamts01]

Honestly, half the group drops are as bad as solo que. If they let 2-mans **** around and go YOLO in solo que that would solve so many problems. Teamwork is OP and no matter what the white knights say, voip is completely ignored most of the time. There needed to be something so 12 mans didn't walk all over everyone, and this did it. But like Pjwnd mentioned, a 12 man with a 50 average weight shouldn't go up against an average weight of 80 tons, which happens all the time.

[Monkey Lover]

adamts01, on 06 February 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Honestly, half the group drops are as bad as solo que. If they let 2-mans **** around and go YOLO in solo que that would solve so many problems. Teamwork is OP and no matter what the white knights say, voip is completely ignored most of the time. There needed to be something so 12 mans didn't walk all over everyone, and this did it. But like Pjwnd mentioned, a 12 man with a 50 average weight shouldn't go up against an average weight of 80 tons, which happens all the time.

Problem is there is zero balance in this. Our house TS has basically stopped playing group Q with more than 6-8 people. They stop inviting and will just start up another team. On the other hand the comp 12 man units are still smashing people in medium mechs haha

[Poppaukko]

The only thing the current tonnage system has done for me, is I never have more than 6 people in a group, 4 is optimal. After 6 people, it's just mechs no one wants to play.

[adamts01]

Monkey Lover, on 06 February 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Problem is there is zero balance in this. Our house TS has basically stopped playing group Q with more than 6-8 people. They stop inviting and will just start up another team. On the other hand the comp 12 man units are still smashing people in medium mechs haha

Poppaukko, on 06 February 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

The only thing the current tonnage system has done for me, is I never have more than 6 people in a group, 4 is optimal. After 6 people, it's just mechs no one wants to play.

Be honest though, before tonnage restrictions your 12 mans were smashing face. Now it's 50/50 unless you're going up against all heavies and assaults. If MM took weight just a little bit in to consideration I think things would be pretty good. And there's nothing you can do to solve comp teams not beating everything. Maybe the top 1% of players should get a permanent 3rd person drone over their head, as a badge of honor and a "shoot me first" marker.

[jasmu]

+1

[Poppaukko]

adamts01, on 06 February 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Be honest though, before tonnage restrictions your 12 mans were smashing face. Now it's 50/50 unless you're going up against all heavies and assaults. If MM took weight just a little bit in to consideration I think things would be pretty good. And there's nothing you can do to solve comp teams not beating everything. Maybe the top 1% of players should get a permanent 3rd person drone over their head, as a badge of honor and a "shoot me first" marker.

I've gotten my team rolled with 7 assaults + other little stuff, against a team with a couple of heavies and other lighter mechs.

I thought games were about having fun, not restricting a big group of having fun.

[Jaawa]

Freedom of choice, meaning no restrictions to tonnage or weight class, will simply result in mass abuse of mech vs. mech play in all group sizes. The current system is very near to a totally balanced solution, this can't be argued, because we all saw the matches in the old days, when equally coordinated teams had 8 assaults vs. 2 assaults. Freedom of choice will never solve anything, it will just bring chaos.

The real balance problem lies in the way the current matchmaker system matches groups together. Currently it doesn't really matter what an organized 12man is running, when they go against a bunch of 3mans. They will most likely win simply because they have superior focus fire and coordination. Freedom of choice will not fix this MAIN PROBLEM, but only make it worse.

Think this thing though and don't assume that PGI hasn't already tried to fix it, because they have, and the current system is the best we have ever had. I am NOT saying it is perfect, we still need to fix the "big organized group vs. many disorganized groups" problem somehow. The current system restricts the big group's tonnage, but that is not enough in the light of game mechanics. Of course the whole problem only comes visible when you have actually organized groups on teamspeak, which isn't always the case, so there's also that side of the thing to take into consideration.

All-in-all, the "freedom of choice" is the most naive proposition I have heard for "fixing" the matchmaker. And that is what we should be discussing here, FIXING THE MATCHMAKER, not catering to your narrow niche of play, whatever it may be.

I'm sorry I'm wording this all in such a harsh way, but I really hate it when people jump for "solutions" that really are just guesses, that really take no history or system logic into consideration.

EDIT. of course if the argument is still having the matchmaker do a perfect tonnage vs. tonnage matchup, which the proposition didn't say, you'd have gigantic wait times for matches. The current matchmaker finds matches pretty much instantly, the freedom of choice "system" would have to be total anarchy, if you wanted fast search times, but if it was total freedom and then having the matchmaker find balanced tonnages for teams, you'd have at least 3x search times (I pulled that one out of my ***, the truth is probably much worse.)

Edited by Jaawa, 06 February 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[adamts01]

Poppaukko, on 06 February 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

I've gotten my team rolled with 7 assaults + other little stuff, against a team with a couple of heavies and other lighter mechs.

I thought games were about having fun, not restricting a big group of having fun.

It's about everyone having fun. And when there was a 12 man with no tonnage restrictions against a couple smaller groups, the outcome was pretty much already decided. When the other team isn't a bunch of 4-mans maxed out on tonnage, I feel it's pretty even. I do 12-man drops a lot with Mr Bear and a crazy mix of tiers. I'll bring my Locust, we'll have 2 or 3 cheetahs, a few blackjacks and warhammers and we'll win more than we lose. We get stomped when we go up against 6 assaults 4 heavies and 2 mediums on the other side, but more often than not we have good games.

[Poppaukko]

adamts01, on 06 February 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

It's about everyone having fun. And when there was a 12 man with no tonnage restrictions against a couple smaller groups, the outcome was pretty much already decided. When the other team isn't a bunch of 4-mans maxed out on tonnage, I feel it's pretty even. I do 12-man drops a lot with Mr Bear and a crazy mix of tiers. I'll bring my Locust, we'll have 2 or 3 cheetahs, a few blackjacks and warhammers and we'll win more than we lose. We get stomped when we go up against 6 assaults 4 heavies and 2 mediums on the other side, but more often than not we have good games.

I've seen full Assault groups get rolled by light mechs, and vice versa. 3x4 groups were much more better than the current system.

And as weird it sounds, there are a lot of people who like to use different mechs and do funny stuff with them. The current system prevents this.

[adamts01]

Poppaukko, on 06 February 2016 - 03:55 PM, said:

I've seen full Assault groups get rolled by light mechs, and vice versa. 3x4 groups were much more better than the current system.

And as weird it sounds, there are a lot of people who like to use different mechs and do funny stuff with them. The current system prevents this.

We've all seen all kinds of crazy things, but pilots being equally skilled, a 600 ton advantage is unbeatable.

[Saskia]

C'mon everyone.. no need to debate. Just a simple agree or disagree is fine.

[Poppaukko]

adamts01, on 06 February 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

We've all seen all kinds of crazy things, but pilots being equally skilled, a 600 ton advantage is unbeatable.

Well, maybe that just means they should bring something else in their dropdeck if they are not having fun. No one is forcing them to do that.

[Monkey Lover]

adamts01, on 06 February 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Be honest though, before tonnage restrictions your 12 mans were smashing face. Now it's 50/50 unless you're going up against all heavies and assaults. If MM took weight just a little bit in to consideration I think things would be pretty good. And there's nothing you can do to solve comp teams not beating everything. Maybe the top 1% of players should get a permanent 3rd person drone over their head, as a badge of honor and a "shoot me first" marker.

There is a big difference from 12 man comp teams and 12 man mix units. Mariks 12 man mix teams would win around 50% of the time as they still had to fight comp team first due to mm. The comp teams would smash us 95% of the time.

Now I would say with the tonnage rules its maybe 12 man mix teams will win 20% of the time. What happens most the time is we get smashed 4-5 people will leave and then we will win again with less people.