35 replies to this topic

[The Basilisk]

JigglyMoobs, on 08 February 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

[...]

If you look at score and damage more carefully you'll notice that I only played a supporting role in that game. The big killers were the Gauss ER PPC Dire, the Thunderwub, and the Raven (wait wut???) on our team.

[...]

Newer/less competitive people in this game think about and see most things in this game through the lens of build and chassis. More competitive people think more about teams, tactics, information, communication, problem solving, and adaptation. You're free to play however you want. I just think the latter are more interesting.

Sure looking at a problem, namely tonnage and technologicaly uneven teams, in a sporty way can be interesting for some ppl but never the less there are thight borders for that.

The vid you gave showed two borderline balanced teams and the reason for the quick and utterly total stomp was the good exploitation of your teams strengths *yawn*
Not intresting.
More happenstance and good luck in getting a good team than anything.
So what ?

One group of ppl using suboptimal builds and tactics for this map against a team with better builds and tactics ( [...] Military tactics answer the questions of how best to deploy and employ forces on a small scale. [...])

Since there is no possibility to know witch builds and terrain you will be playing on there is no real possibility of adapting and solving problems in a competitive tactical sense.
No real room for adapting since I can only do marginal changes to the ground I am on and no changes to my equipment once I am dropped.
Hence the only tactical way to look at it can be to use equipment that would be valid on most battlegrounds provided by the game.

Thats why I think stomps mostly happen when ppls equipment and the used modi of operation for this equipment do not match or even contradict.
You can not play together if you got toxic builds.
One could say its a hard wired high probability for failure.

Edit: What I try to say is: The possibility of winning a game is playerside destined by the used build and the players ability to use it to maximum effect. On the games side by the combination of players, builds and terrain.
So the only matchmaking that actualy takes place is the calculation if the matched players do equaly well in satisfying what the game wants from them on an averange level.

There are no real tactics or interesting concepts or stuff.
Its all possibilitys and adhering to averange.
If to many ppl do something interesting this averange is tipped over and there is no way to say if to their respective advantage or disadvantage.

Edited by The Basilisk, 10 February 2016 - 09:46 AM.

[JigglyMoobs]

The Basilisk, on 10 February 2016 - 09:25 AM, said:

Since there is no possibility to know witch builds and terrain you will be playing on there is no real possibility of adapting and solving problems in a competitive tactical sense.

No real room for adapting since I can only do marginal changes to the ground I am on and no changes to my equipment once I am dropped.

I think you are anwering your own point here, Basilisk. You can't adapt by changing equipment so you adapt with tactics.

Quote

Edit: What I try to say is: The possibility of winning a game is playerside destined by the used build and the players ability to use it to maximum effect.

That's exactly what we are talking about here, using it to maximum effect.

Quote

There are no real tactics or interesting concepts or stuff.

"the players ability to use it to maximum effect." That's not tactics? What made this game interesting for me is the very clear distinction in tactics between the two teams, and the outcome that came as a result. The awareness of and ability to execute those tactics in ways fitting with the situation on hand are one of the main differences between being good or bad at this game.

Edited by JigglyMoobs, 10 February 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[deathTouch]

Game looks good when you get more than 15 fps, huh

[jaxjace]

My eyes, the beautiful graphics!

Seriously though, the grace the speed of movement, oh how i miss the old skill tree. everythings so ******* SLOOOOOWWWW now

[B0oN]

Good showing of "how teamwork makes a mechwarrior´s life that much easier" without any resorting to TS and absolutely minimal use of VoIP/Chat .
Also very good dissection of the finer points of why Jiggly did what he did when he did it ... gentlemen, that is NOT an assault on your skills/tier/ego/pride/complexes, it is plain and simple mentoring , deluxé-style .

If you honestly feel pissed off about getting shown what is wrong/gettin mentored/getting educated, then maybe consider changing priorities in your mech-styles, even if it is just for a few matches (= for as long as it needs to get a team that is working coherently together to pull of such games, otherwise there would be 0 educational purpose behind it) to see the difference for oneself .

Chill your bases, trust in the educational session Jiggly and others are giving here .
And be thankful, for that kind of playing is hard earned and then it´s tricks are given away for free TO ALL, not just the select few Jiggly or his helpers runs with ... might wanna think about THAT for a second before calling "epeen waving" ... because only insecure people that don´t want to change do that when being shown what they are doing wrong .

And yes... tailor your playstyle to the loadout and the map at hand (e.g.: If you have a Spl-boat on Alpine peaks dont disconnect like a little ****** brat, face the challenge at hand and make your loadout work ... that is what is called SKILL in the end), not your loadout to the map at hand (e.g.: only bringing laservomit, only voting for cold maps... pffff, scared of hot maps or what ?)... doing the latter WILL keep your pool of playstyles/tactics shallow and meaningless and thusly easily countered by "smarter" players .

Now go and practise some more ... MW:O needs more good pilots, it already has masses of potential victims .

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 12 February 2016 - 02:32 AM.

[Wildstreak]

Things I saw watching the video.

- Not playing the objective. When you have 5 modes of Skirmish in game, something is broken. No objectives means I play less and see little to anything to learn. Thanks for convincing me not to try the game today. Shows one of the things wrong with the voting system.
- Other team tried playing the objective, notice who has the most caps, further proof of previous point.
- Bringing a match from November is bad since it is before the Dec. 1 changes, notice two of the Mechs that took top score on your team. More videos like this could reverse the decision to unnerf the Clan Triumverate. Try picking matches from December to today.
- You 'don't need no stinking Unit Tag' to do well.
- If the opposing team is of lower tier as said, then there were not many people on at that time since the game had to 'release a lot of valves' to find you a match. So you supported the argument of the playerbase shrinking that is being disputed in other topics.
- Some FF incidents eve on the winning team so the winners still need to learn.

This video does not prove anything about either team, that could only be done in true Skirmish where there is no other objective to distract people.

[Ano]

For a change of pace:

Nice vid Jiggly. I'm not sure how one trains oneself to have the situational and positional awareness that you team appeared to have, particularly in the heat of battle, but if nothing else it shows how effective that understanding can be.

Videos like this one might be especially useful as training tools with a simple VO explaining the whys and whats as they happen. One to consider, should you find yourself with copious free time and the inclination.

[Tesunie]

Wildstreak, on 12 February 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Things I saw watching the video.

- Not playing the objective. When you have 5 modes of Skirmish in game, something is broken. No objectives means I play less and see little to anything to learn. Thanks for convincing me not to try the game today. Shows one of the things wrong with the voting system.
- Other team tried playing the objective, notice who has the most caps, further proof of previous point.
- Bringing a match from November is bad since it is before the Dec. 1 changes, notice two of the Mechs that took top score on your team. More videos like this could reverse the decision to unnerf the Clan (Timberwolf?). Try picking matches from December to today.
- You 'don't need no stinking Unit Tag' to do well.
- If the opposing team is of lower tier as said, then there were not many people on at that time since the game had to 'release a lot of valves' to find you a match. So you supported the argument of the playerbase shrinking that is being disputed in other topics.
- Some FF incidents eve on the winning team so the winners still need to learn.

- I agree that it would be nice if Objectives meant a bit more. For the moment they are mostly an "occationally ending a match before everyone is killed". But at the same time, we want players to be able to play enough and get enough combat to have a fun match. Delicate the balance must be here.
- Other team also had more close range builds (and fewer clans). That was why they didn't do so well in the long range section of the match (those that had long range tried to fight it out it seemed, and died early). Then, in the later segment, the enemy team was hiding because they were the close combat mechs, who couldn't get into close combat (short of a suicide charge). By that point, they were out numbered and surrounded.
- It isn't a bad example of better teamwork, better messing of builds and/or better Elo/PRS ranking being piled into one team over another. It also had one team with a lot of newly released mechs (I believe I saw a lot of Wolfhounds?)... However, you do need to consider the state of the game at that time when viewing.
- Agreed with unit tags, but "unit queue" is only affecting CW. I believe it to be a mistake, but it's going in. I don't see how that will help units or non-unit players. Makes it harder to solo as a unit member, and it makes it harder to recruit new members into a unit now. But I feel this is for a different topic/thread.
- No matter how good you (feel you) are, there is always something more to learn.

If anything, the video shows a multitude of problems between the teams, not just skill levels and/or teamwork. You have to consider the team's mech builds, what type of mechs, etc. Teamwork did play a part, but so did other factors as well.

[Motormouth]

Before I forget.

Thanks for this. Really, just thanks.


I was gonna hang it up for the night after my 4th death/defeat, when I saw this.

What was on that battlemap changed my whole outlook on how to play.

I run lights, have been a playing for roughly 48hrs, and have gotten so much good feedback from the commuinity, but I digress; this waas arguably the most influential. Aside from another person telling me not to do lanes in a light, but flank.

The first drop I did after watching this was on Polar Highlands, with 2x ERlaserLs on a RVN-4X, and I got on the right dropship. 12-0, I got my first standalone kill in a match, and it was over faster than it began.

Absolutely, positively, richly informative for anyone getting slaughtered and looking for a good place to start learning.

My trouble is my hardware and bad habits born from Japanadian Skate-Bots, if I stopped moving or turning, I was dead. But turns out lights were my saving grace. Out turn, out flank, out smart. The thinking mans mech.

Mech Combat equates roughly to marching a tank column. My game has only been improving.

Thank you.

[NRP]

Yeah, thanks for posting this, Jiggly. I occasionally get teamed up/against known Tier 1 players and those are usually the best games, win or lose. I just try to pay attention, do what I'm told, and help out where I can.

[InspectorG]

Reds did the tried and true Camping of Death Valley...until they died.

I hate when Pugs camp that spot.

[InspectorG]

Wildstreak, on 12 February 2016 - 05:42 AM, said:

Things I saw watching the video.

- Not playing the objective. When you have 5 modes of Skirmish in game, something is broken. No objectives means I play less and see little to anything to learn. Thanks for convincing me not to try the game today. Shows one of the things wrong with the voting system.
- Other team tried playing the objective, notice who has the most caps, further proof of previous point.

They played the objective wrongly, for that map and paid for it by diluting their firepower.

Most Puglandia Conquests are best done by brawling it up with 2 fast mechs STEALING caps.
Larger Maps allow more outright capping if the enemy brawls and neglects caps - specially if you notice if they are heavier/slower.

Yeah, all current modes are flavor of Skirmish, but you can leverage the objectives to pressure the enemy to address them. Gonna be map and team dependent. Communication = OP.

[Ruslan Savelyev]

Obviously red made some bad choices which resulted in that massacre, but a match like this is very poor as a learning tool. Your team barely communicated and was never pushed or had to counter/adjust. Would have probably been more depth in a 12-9 match score game that went 10min.

I watched basically everything from MRBC and BanditB17's channel when I started, and this is pretty much nothing in comparison.

[4ries]

Note: I havent read all the replies here...

Actually... and here is my 2 c-bills. Why is it that you only see videos of other teams getting stomped into nothingness...? Why do you always see videos of players and their 'metabuilds/mechs' and roflstomping other casual players?

Answer: its their electronic penis that needs stroking perhaps?

Sorry, but this is just a show-off video.

Ok, with that out of the way...; why dont players (the good ones or actually the not so good ones) post videos of their games they lost?
Its not by winning all the time that newbie players learn, its by making mistakes and learn what they did wrong if they so desire.
The fact that alot of players dont want to learn is something of a story of itself...

So, please... next time post a video of you playing a game and losing it; then you must make a post and describe what happened. What went wrong, what was the opening move, what game mode was it, even the mechs (how many lights, mediuims, heavy and assault mechs). What map, etc etc etc...

And I dont mean players that are also on youtube. I am not trying to offend said players, but more casual vids would be nice to see, IF its a decent player.

This would be alot better instead of showing off how you roflstomped the other team.

I havent watched this video, but were you in a premade of random pug? Did you use VOIP of teamspeak...

I also had games where my team just roflstomped the other team; mind you that this is with random pug's, not premades. Unluckily enough these moments come far to few to even talk about because I have much more losing games then I have winning games.
And yes, before you wonder; I am not a veteran, I am no expert. I am just a guy that wants to learn how to play this game.


Hmm, well I could make such video's... I have fraps on my computer, I have a very basic understanding on editing video's (dont expect fancy things from me... ) so I could pull it off.
And I would put aswell losing games and winning games on the interwebz. Mostly losing games for I dont have the gift of tactical awareness yet. But I am getting there.

Perhaps I could be a mentor on how NOT to do things in MWO... Seems fun to me, and it would give me something to do other then playing each and every evening I come home from work.

PS: I have once made a lets play for QuakeII... But dont bother looking it up because I removed all the video's. Its not that they were bad, I just wasnt happy with how I did things in those vids. Thats where I got my movie editing skills from...

PSS: you actually dont see alot of video's of players losing a game or even a losing streak of 10 games in a row like I had a few times already... They exist, but you have to come upon them by accident almost.

Greetings mechwarriors.


Sidenote: I hope I havent offended anyone, but its this egotripping that gets to me somewhat. Maybe that was not the intention of the OP but it does reeks somewhat of this. Or it was just some innocent fun for the OP to post this.
Also, talking about wins or losses... I have made a bunch of screenshots of both wins and mostly losses. To try and debunk this egotripping and epeening I am more then willing to put a bunch of screenies on this forum. I am not a gloryseeker and actually want to show you these screenies where I ****** up.
Hell, even competetive teams lose games...

Also, if I notice that my post is nowhere as sound as it should be then I will just delete it (not hiding it). I can sometimes be 'strange' sort to speak.

[InspectorG]

4ries, on 04 June 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Note: I havent read all the replies here...

Actually... and here is my 2 c-bills. Why is it that you only see videos of other teams getting stomped into nothingness...? Why do you always see videos of players and their 'metabuilds/mechs' and roflstomping other casual players?

Answer: its their electronic penis that needs stroking perhaps?

Sorry, but this is just a show-off video.

Ok, with that out of the way...; why dont players (the good ones or actually the not so good ones) post videos of their games they lost?
Its not by winning all the time that newbie players learn, its by making mistakes and learn what they did wrong if they so desire.
The fact that alot of players dont want to learn is something of a story of itself...

So, please... next time post a video of you playing a game and losing it; then you must make a post and describe what happened. What went wrong, what was the opening move, what game mode was it, even the mechs (how many lights, mediuims, heavy and assault mechs). What map, etc etc etc...

And I dont mean players that are also on youtube. I am not trying to offend said players, but more casual vids would be nice to see, IF its a decent player.

This would be alot better instead of showing off how you roflstomped the other team.

I havent watched this video, but were you in a premade of random pug? Did you use VOIP of teamspeak...

I also had games where my team just roflstomped the other team; mind you that this is with random pug's, not premades. Unluckily enough these moments come far to few to even talk about because I have much more losing games then I have winning games.
And yes, before you wonder; I am not a veteran, I am no expert. I am just a guy that wants to learn how to play this game.


Hmm, well I could make such video's... I have fraps on my computer, I have a very basic understanding on editing video's (dont expect fancy things from me... ) so I could pull it off.
And I would put aswell losing games and winning games on the interwebz. Mostly losing games for I dont have the gift of tactical awareness yet. But I am getting there.

Perhaps I could be a mentor on how NOT to do things in MWO... Seems fun to me, and it would give me something to do other then playing each and every evening I come home from work.

PS: I have once made a lets play for QuakeII... But dont bother looking it up because I removed all the video's. Its not that they were bad, I just wasnt happy with how I did things in those vids. Thats where I got my movie editing skills from...

PSS: you actually dont see alot of video's of players losing a game or even a losing streak of 10 games in a row like I had a few times already... They exist, but you have to come upon them by accident almost.

Greetings mechwarriors.


Sidenote: I hope I havent offended anyone, but its this egotripping that gets to me somewhat. Maybe that was not the intention of the OP but it does reeks somewhat of this. Or it was just some innocent fun for the OP to post this.
Also, talking about wins or losses... I have made a bunch of screenshots of both wins and mostly losses. To try and debunk this egotripping and epeening I am more then willing to put a bunch of screenies on this forum. I am not a gloryseeker and actually want to show you these screenies where I ****** up.
Hell, even competetive teams lose games...

Also, if I notice that my post is nowhere as sound as it should be then I will just delete it (not hiding it). I can sometimes be 'strange' sort to speak.

You need to read all the replies, the 'why' the Pug lost was addressed and it is a multi-aspect reason they lost: Bad Positioning, diluted firepower, CoD mentality, not leveraging the objective, not coordinating movement/firepower.../etc

Plenty of players post vids of losing, specially in Group Play, CW, or private matches. You can even watch the really good players live on Twitch as they stream. Trust me, they lose just like anyone else.

And in MWO you dont get to brag about a losing streak until you hit 20 straight losses (yes it actually happens)

[4ries]

20 straight losses you say... Looks like I have still a long way to go...