9 replies to this topic

[Nnamleips]

The issue:
- LRMs are to accurate
- LRMs are everywhere
- LRMs are the new META
- You can use LRMs to rise in tier levels without realy getting better
- Rule for the new map: The more LRM-boats the higher you rate of success

Possible Solution:
- Give the LRMs new spread values (see below).
- Adjust the launching angle for LOS / not LOS (30° and 60° respectively)
- Adjustment of launching angle for use of lock, targeting system and LOS.

The old spread values from before the balancing:
- LRM20-> 7. m
- LRM15-> 5.7m
- LRM10-> 5.3m
- LRM5-> 3.3m


My suggestion:
All LRMs have a spread of 10m on 1,000m. Thus making LRM5 useless. For preventing this we will need a constant N.
This is the number of tubes per mount in ratio to the LRM20:
- LRM20 = 1
- LRM15 = 1.33333
- LRM10 = 2
- LRM5 = 4

This will lead us to the following equation:
Spread for maxRange - N = spread for mount:
- LRM20: 10m - 1 = 9m
- LRM15: 10m - 1.34 = 8.66m
- LRM10: 10m - 2 = 8m
- LRM5 : 10m - 4 = 6m

In relation of the other tubes the LRM5 would have a higher spread, but would hold it's own advantages (see below).

These spreads are indeed large. Thus I will take them as base for launches without lock.

With targeting system the values would adjust as described below:
(Locked says you have the enemy targeted (red square by pressing "R")
(The percentages are the percentage of spread for the figure above)
- Non Lock : 0% -> 30°
- Lock - LOS: 12,5% -> 60°
- Lock + TAG - LOS: 25% -> 60°
- Lock + NARC - LOS: 25% -> 60°
- Lock + TAG + NARC - LOS: 37,5% -> 60°
- Lock + LOS: 12.5% -> 30°
- Lock + TAG + LOS: 25% -> 30°
- Lock + Narc + LOS: 25% -> 30°
- Lock + TAG + NARC + LOS: 50% -> 30°
- Lock + Artemis + LOS: 50%-> 30°
(These values can be further Adjusted.)

For a better understanding:
LRM 20 without Lock 9m scattering.
LRM 20 with Lock 9m - 12.5% ​​= 7,875m scattering.


It is unusual, that a target is tagged and narced at the same time, thus artemis will still bring a small advantage.

If multiple tubes are fired simultaneously their center of impact should be quite the same spot (lasers are focussed, too).
The area of impact for 4 LRM5 would a a bit smaller than for an LRM20. Caused by the heatscale and lower cooldown you would generate more heat with 4 LRM5.

For the AMS:
The AMS fires for each passing volley.
This will lead to no difference in the handling of one LRM boat with 8 LRM5 (alpha-striked) or a 2 LRM20 boat.
In chainfire the AMS already catches all LRM5 volleys.

Effect:
- By a farther spread of each missle the whole LRM issue would be smoothed, without the need to buff something else.
- LRMs would be more like TT and lore.
- Indirekt LRM would get back to what they should be! Artillery!!!
- For more skilled pilots: You could increase your damageout.


What such a change would do:
A LRM boat (named archer) that shoots on 990m without LOS would get a new launching angle of 60°, thus could shoot over cover and obstacles. This would come along with the disadvantage of a higher spread, thus spreading damage to different locations and not every missle on the target (approximatly 40% would miss). There is a possibility of damaging other 'Mechs, that are nearby. Additionaly the flight path would be higher for 60° launches than for 30° launches, thus the missles take a longer time to traverse the way to the enemy.

The archer could do the following things to increase his damage output:
- Closing distance to his/her targets (500m). The area of impact decrease and more missles hit the target (with the same spread).
- He/She let's targets get markedby TAG or NARC, thus decreasing the spread (what is the real purpose of targeting systems). He/She can continue to stand at 990m and hope for the missles to hit the target.
- He/She get into LOS and risks to get damaged. With Artemis this already has to be done (Artemis only works on LOS).

The following happens:
The launching angle changes to 30°, letting the missles be fast on the target. The spread decreases and increases the amount of damage done (with Artemis around 50%).
- The archer who wants to surpress/frighten of multiple enemies could fire without lock and bath multiple enemies (near his crosshair) in missle rain (with low damage per 'Mech and per component).


The effects of such a mechanic:
- Newbies that don't get the min / max Range of LRMs won't do much damage.
- Newbies that don't get the min / max Range of LRMs will get bored with them or be encouraged to learn about how to use them.
- Newbies that have understood the mechanic and learned about it could help their team and not be a burden.
- Indirect fire will be support again. Used wisely it can hit multiple 'Mechs simultaneously, what could bring your team a great advantage.
- LOS and Lock gives advantages and disadvanteges that the archer has to be willing to accept. If he/she wants kills he/she has to take a higher risk (which will lead to helping the team more).
- The amount of LRMs would decrease a bit again.
- The LRMs would be more balanced.
- LRM users would be more accepted.

[Thunderchild]

What about clan targeting computers and C3 system? What about Target info gattering?.

The system seems nice, but I always had issues with rockets magically disapearing on 1000m/270m.

[Nnamleips]

Thunderchild, on 08 February 2016 - 06:07 AM, said:

What about clan targeting computers and C3 system? What about Target info gattering?.

The system seems nice, but I always had issues with rockets magically disapearing on 1000m/270m.

These systems change the detection time.
Have nothing to do with the scattering.

[Kalimaster]

Lets see. ANOTHER NERF THIS THREAD.

Try this. ECM or AMS. Or take cover.

Or maybe they could unnerf the ballistic range and bring it back up to 3x and get rid of ghost heat as well.

Edited by Kalimaster, 08 February 2016 - 09:05 AM.

[Nnamleips]

take the calkulator. its not an NERF

[D V Devnull]

No changes are needed to LRMs as they stand, at least for Inner Sphere LRMs... I've been a rather harsh critic of LRMs myself, and have even used them. Without "Artemis + BAP + Comm. Console", I find myself not doing enough damage with the LRMs as it is... Already get enough trouble from people with ECM/AMS in-use. And if people learned to dodge more, they would be even less effective... Spread already sucks horribly too, so spreading any further, Artemis or not, would render them unused on the battlefield and cause a hell of a lot of unnecessary whining to PGI.

~D. V. "If you're being hit by LRMs, LEARN TO DODGE ALREADY!!!" Devnull

[Kalimaster]

People claim that LRM's are either ineffective or broken. Try using them in conjunction with a new term. Cooperative Game Play.

[D V Devnull]

Kalimaster, on 09 February 2016 - 08:21 AM, said:

People claim that LRM's are either ineffective or broken. Try using them in conjunction with a new term. Cooperative Game Play.

Too true... Even further, note that I've been running with a Catapult CPLT-A1, so I need to have cooperative teammates or my mech DOES become useless/ineffective. Too many players seem to fail to comprehend a very old adage... "There is NO 'I' in 'TEAM'!" This effectively shows why LRMs are good as-is, and that they need to not be messed with at this point. LRM support should be able to at least score a Killing Blow every once in a while.

~D. V. "They ARE called 'Long Range Missiles' for many reasons!" Devnull

[Firewuff]

Any group with massed LRMS can be beaten with a good push and closing under 180m or gauss +ppc+erllas and some reasonable cover. Its not hard. When pugging thats a different matter

[Mazzyplz]

instead of a nerf my proposal is this:

make the LRM way faster -
make it do more damage -
let the missile only track the target the first half of the flight-time.

so after the missile is past 500 meters the tracking turns off, but the missile goes so fast you got a good chance of hitting stuff direct-fire way, and it does follow stuff around corners slightly.

also prevents people from just getting locks behind a hill and shooting missiles.

there. nerfing indirect fire but buffing direct fire LRMS